Since I started looking into the Lost Interview with Vicki Adams the only people who have been shown, beyond reasonable doubt,
“Looking into” You are really being kind to yourself. You just brought a preconceived notion based on a photo and have been force fitting the known information ever since.
This is the very first sentence I posted when I became aware of the "Lost Interview". It's from Reply#314:
"This interview is quite an eye-opener and certainly contradicts my own thinking on this aspect of the case."I most certainly did not bring a preconceived notion to this aspect of the case. I had a completely different idea about it.
On the contrary, it's you who has brought an idiotic preconceived notion that it was Harkness that the girls encountered 50ft away from the back door and around the corner of the building.
You have been asked to provide evidence to support your dizzy notion that this officer is Harkness. As usual, you have provided nothing other than your insistence that it must be him because, in your own deluded mind, there were no other police officers around the back of the building before Harkness.
You have zero grasp of the evidence involved in this aspect of the case.
Your ignorance has been shown up time and time and time again.
The answer has not changed. The girls did not leave when they thought. The reason this is known is the time stamps tell a different story. You can ignore the timestamps all you want, but your storyline does not work and the evidence supposedly supporting it is just flat-out made-up nonsense. Nothing but one endless hypothetical brain fart. Garbage in, garbage out.
Because this theory is as broken as it gets. Apparently, now Harkness is an issue, but only because the rest of this nonsense just does not add up, and his timestamp ends this theory by his testimony alone. It makes no difference who the girls encounter, feel free to have the girls encounter whoever you want but just make sure it was at the proper time of 12:36. All Harkness did was assemble some men and lockdown the back. If you want Harkness to be the officer they encounter good for you. The rest of this is just all you. The women encountered Harkness and the police officers stationed in the back. Get over it.
The flaws in your theory are obvious.
Shelley and Lovelady talking to Calvery and then sprinting back into the building and somehow get ahead of Truly and Baker who they witness going into the building
Truly and Baker entering the building while Shelley and Lovelady are still outside.
The girls supposedly encountering the police in the back before Harkness states they are stationed there at 12:36
Not encountering Barnett or being seen by him, who also raced to the back of the building and was standing in the back
From start to finish would take no more than 2 minutes to traverse the building and be back at the front door, making Adams whole statement and her being turned away at the front door a red flag in your story.
-----------------
In the end the time stamps of the police confirm the movements of Adams and Styles.
You can have all the “what if” brain farts you want but there are always logic flaws or timing issues that make what you are trying to create untenable and make them moot. The timing of this storyline of an immediate departure does not work. Claiming everyone is lying is standard for your failed ideas. Especially given the girls did not see anyone of importance and LHO admitted to the encounter on the 2nd floor.
If he was coming up as conspiracy people believe instead of coming down like his Holmes statement, Adams and Styles should have encountered him.
Once again opinion brain farts are presented as facts.
Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Mr. BELIN - You are talking about the back part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
----------------------------
You can't explain why Adams and Styles aren't in the window of the Dillard picture.
You can't explain the Stroud document.
You can't explain how the testimonies of Shelley and Lovelady completely contradicted the Baker/Truly time trials.
You can't explain why Oswald included Shelley in his alibi.
You lie about Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett making statements that refute Adams constant assertion that she left the fourth floor within seconds, supported by Styles and Garner.
And you can only offer the useless identification of Harkness as the officer Adams and Styles encountered based on nothing more than your own limited imagination. That's all you've got.
Do some research. Come up with some actual evidence.
You call what you are doing is research? Coming up with hypothetical scenarios and then convincing yourself they are real by calling everyone liars and ignoring the real facts. If you cannot explain the time stamps and the correlations between the girls and the police you have done nothing but waste time. Here is the bad news you have not. Your "look" at the evidence has shown the opposite, that all this hypothetical guessing has yielded no answer.
The usual meaningless waffle but at least you've outlined what you believe are the weaknesses with the arguments I've put forward.
This can be the starting point for a rational, reasoned debate
I can defend my arguments against your critique and also outline what I believe are the real weaknesses with your "theory". In turn you can counter my defence against your criticisms and defend your own theory against my critique of it.
And that way we can have an adult discussion about this issue.
So, let's have a look at the weaknesses as you perceive them:
The flaws in your theory are obvious.
Shelley and Lovelady talking to Calvery and then sprinting back into the building and somehow get ahead of Truly and Baker who they witness going into the building
Truly and Baker entering the building while Shelley and Lovelady are still outside.
The girls supposedly encountering the police in the back before Harkness states they are stationed there at 12:36
Not encountering Barnett or being seen by him, who also raced to the back of the building and was standing in the back
From start to finish would take no more than 2 minutes to traverse the building and be back at the front door, making Adams whole statement and her being turned away at the front door a red flag in your story. Basically, you have five points of criticism.
Before dealing with them I should clarify the theory I'm putting forward.
It is based on Adams constant assertion that she left the fourth floor within seconds of the last shot:
"As the car came back into view I saw that something was wrong and watched as Mrs. Kennedy appeared to be trying to climb out of the car. I saw a Secret Service man jump in and the car began speeding toward the triple underpass. Before it reached that [the triple underpass] I turned to Sandra and I said, 'I want to see what is going on.' We ran to the back of the office and down the stairs."Before the limo had reached the underpass Adams decided to get downstairs and find out what was going on. Adams and Styles immediately ran all the way down to the railroad track where they were stopped by a police officer. This is why we don't see Adams or Styles in the Dillard picture. Seconds earlier they had been watching the motorcade from the window. In the pic below the woman looking out of the window can be seen from her knees upwards, if Adams and Styles were anywhere near the window they would be easily visible but they are nowhere to be seen. The Dillard pic is taken about 11 seconds after the last shot, just as the limo has exited from the underpass. It confirms Adams statement that she was on her way before the limo reached the underpass:
In Reply#362 I demonstrate that Adams and Styles could have ran to the first floor within 35 - 40 seconds of the last shot. In her WC testimony Adams states she was on the first floor in less than a minute. In the Lost Interview she states she was down on the first floor within 30 to 60 seconds.
Adams and Styles have reached the first floor and exited through the back door before Truly and Baker have reached the area near the elevators on the first floor. This is confirmed by the Stroud document. The only possible way the Stroud document makes sense is if Adams and Styles leave immediately, race down the stairs and exit the building before Truly and Baker ascend the same stairs. It's the only way that Adams and Styles go down the stairs
before Truly and Baker come up without either pair seeing the other.
When Adams reaches the first floor she sees Shelley and Lovelady there. She calls out to them but gets no response:
"And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock."If we accept Adams' version of events we find the following situation - 30 to 60 seconds after the last shot Adams and Styles reach the first floor and find Shelley and Lovelady there. Adams and Styles exit through the back door and seconds later Truly and Baker arrive in the same area. If this is the case then both sets of men must be in the same area at the same time. This appears to be confirmed by Baker's observation of two white men stood in the area when he and Truly arrived there:
Mr. Baker: On the first floor there were two men. As we came through the main doorway to the elevators, I remember as we tried to get on the elevators I remember two men, one was sitting on this side and another one between 20 or 30 feet away from us looking at us.
Mr. Dulles: Were they white men?
Mr. Baker: Yes, sir.The diagram below represents the situation above,
The red line shows the route Adams and Styles took when they reached the first floor.
The red star is the area they encountered the police officer (note, it is impossible to see the back door from this area).
The red circle is the area Shelley and Lovelady are stood when Adams calls out to them.
We know Shelley and Lovelady were on the front steps when the shooting occurred (the blue circle) and it is from this area they make their way to the back of the first floor. The blue line is an approximation of their route.
This is the theory I'm putting forward based on Adams' testimony and it couldn't be more simple.
After the shooting Shelley and Lovelady make their way to the back of the first floor of the TSBD building.
That's it.
Nothing miraculous.
Nothing fantastical.
Two men simply make their way from the front steps to the area near the elevators.
What is so difficult to understand about it?
This brings us to the first "flaws" Jack has put forward that undermine this theory:
Shelley and Lovelady talking to Calvery and then sprinting back into the building and somehow get ahead of Truly and Baker who they witness going into the building
Truly and Baker entering the building while Shelley and Lovelady are still outside. How do Shelley and Lovelady make it past Baker and Truly to arrive at the area near the elevators before Baker and Truly do?
The short answer is that they simply walk past Baker while he is talking to Truly in the lobby.
It really is that simple.
Why Jack is having a hard time getting his head around that is anyone's guess.
In Reply#403 I reconstruct the seconds after the assassination using the Darnell footage. It culminates in this series of identifications:
This image, taken from the Darnell footage, occurs approximately 20 - 25 seconds after the assassination.
In it we see Baker approaching the front steps. Lovelady is on the steps listening to an incredibly distressed Gloria Calvery telling everyone about JFK being shot. Shelley is stood near the bottom of the steps having just returned from the concrete 'spur' after running into Gloria.
Of the four men, Truly is stood furthest away from the front door.
As the seconds roll on from this point Baker makes his way up the steps and enters the lobby closely followed by Shelley and Lovelady. Baker makes the point that other people enter the lobby with him:
Mr. Belin: What did you see and what did you do as you ran into the building?
Mr. Baker: As I entered this building, there was, it seems to me like there was outside doors and then there is a little lobby.
Mr. Belin: All right.
Mr. Baker: And then there are some inner doors and another door you have to go through, a swinging door type.
As I entered this lobby there were people going in as I entered. And I asked, I just spoke out and asked where the stairs or elevator was, and this man, Mr. Truly, spoke up and says, it seems to me like he says, "I am a building manager. Follow me, officer, and I will show you." So we immediately went out through the second set of doors, and we ran into the swinging door.The "people going in" with Baker are Shelley and Lovelady. Baker is trying to find out how to get to up the building and Truly shows up. Truly and Baker have a short conversation.
While Baker is trying to find out where the stairs or elevator are and while he is talking to Truly, Shelley and Lovelady simply walk quickly by him and enter the main work space of the first floor before Truly and Baker do.
Shelley and Lovelady are only a few seconds ahead of Baker and Truly but it is during these few seconds that Adams and Styles run by.
There is nothing difficult to understand about this, nothing miraculous is happening.
The girls supposedly encountering the police in the back before Harkness states they are stationed there at 12:36 This is Jack's third "flaw".
His assumption is that there are no police officers in the area around the back of the TSBD building until 12:36pm, when Harkness and a couple of other officers start to lock down the back of the building. This is wrong.
From Welcome Barnett's WC testimony:
"So since ,this was the only fire escape and there was officers down here watching this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape."Within two minutes of the assassination, Barnett has made his way to the back of the building and noticed a police presence there. It is completely wrong, not to mention quite baffling, to assume there were no other officers near the back door before Harkness. Barnett proves this is wrong and he also provides evidence supporting Adams assertion that there was an officer in this area seconds after the assassination.
Not encountering Barnett or being seen by him, who also raced to the back of the building and was standing in the backJack's fourth "flaw".
Firstly, there is absolutely no reason why Adams and Styles would have "encountered" Barnett. He was on Houston Street, Adams and Styles were not.
Interestingly, in the Lost Interview, Adams refers to seeing a police officer on Houston Street after she exited the back door.
It must be remembered that Barnett's total focus was on the roofline of the building and, in particular, the fire escape on Houston Street. Barnett makes the specific point that he paid very little attention to the area around the back door:
Mr. Liebeler: There is a door in the back of the Texas School Book Depository. Does it face on Houston or around the corner?
Mr. Barnett: It is around the corner from Houston Street.
Mr. Liebeler: Did you go in the building?
Mr. Barnett: No, sir; I didn't get close to it, because I was watching for a fire escape. If the man was on top, he would have to come down, and I was looking for a fire escape, and I didn't pay much attention to the door.
I was still watching the top of the building, and so far as I could see, the fire escape on the east side was the only escape down .It isn't really that surprising Barnett didn't see Adams and Styles around the back of the TSBD building. He was focused on the fire escape on Houston Street.
From start to finish would take no more than 2 minutes to traverse the building and be back at the front door, making Adams whole statement and her being turned away at the front door a red flag in your story. This is Jack's fifth and final "flaw".
To be honest, I don't even know what it means.
I agree it would have taken 2 minutes to make it round to the front of the building.
Styles walked straight back into the building unchallenged. Adams didn't decide to go back in until she heard the 12:38pm transmission referring to the second floor. Jack doesn't seem to appreciate that Adams was out front trying to discover what happened. She talks about a conversation with Avery Davies and listening to the police radio.
Jack's "flaws" seem really weak and are easily dealt with. There is nothing that undermines the theory I'm putting forward.
Maybe I'm missing something.
We'll see.
