Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview

[Martin Weidmann]

"We made an attempt to take the front-of-building elevator downstairs. For some reason, however, this elevator—which, unlike the rear elevator, went only as high as the fourth floor—did not come when we called it. It was only after trying to call the elevator that we thought of going towards the rear stairs. And even then we did not proceed very quickly — we were wearing high-heel shoes!" -- S. Styles; 2008

Interesting! I suppose that if Belin had decided to time her trek to the first floor this would have been documented. Barry Ernest’s book “The Girl on the Stairs” is copyrighted 2013. This should have come up in all his dealings with Victoria Adams. Deception by omission is one of the tricks used by CT authors. This makes me wonder about Barry.

A recollection by Styles 45 years after the event is more important to the LNs, than Adam's statement to the FBI two days after the shooting, because Styles says something they like. Never mind that she told different stories at different times and at least once also clearly stated that she could be wrong and that Adams probably had the best recollection.

Interesting! I suppose that if Belin had decided to time her trek to the first floor this would have been documented.

Indeed, but Belin didn't want to find out. Makes me wonder about Belin's motives, but I'm sure you're fine with it.

This should have come up in all his dealings with Victoria Adams. Deception by omission is one of the tricks used by CT authors. This makes me wonder about Barry.

It doesn't make me wonder about you. It's all just bias! The fact that you call someting "deception by omission" just because you feel it should have come up but didn't is pathetic!

[Martin Weidmann]

Here's a puzzle the LNs won't be able to solve.

They claim that Adams and Styles did not leave the 4th window immediately after the shots and they use Adams' seeing Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor as "proof".

The problem with that "proof" is that Shelley and Lovelady did not re-enter the TSBD until about 5 minutes after the shots, and we know for a fact that Styles re-entered the building at the front entrance before it was locked down at 12:36 (according to Sergeant Harkness). There's even a photograph of Styles standing next to the car of one of the officers who had just arrived there to lock down the building. We also know that Adams and Styles had to go down the stairs and then walk around the building to the front entrance.

If, as Mytton claims,

We know it was longer than 30 seconds. End of story.

JohnM

the LNs should be able to explain how Adams and Styles managed to get to the front entrance of the building at 12:36, if they indeed waited more than 30 seconds and did indeed see Shelley and Lovelady some 5 minutes after the shooting.

If they can't explain this, their entire claim is obviously bogus!

[Jack Nessan]

Here's a puzzle the LNs won't be able to solve.

They claim that Adams and Styles did not leave the 4th window immediately after the shots and they use Adams' seeing Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor as "proof".

The problem with that "proof" is that Shelley and Lovelady did not re-enter the TSBD until about 5 minutes after the shots, and we know for a fact that Styles re-entered the building at the front entrance before it was locked down at 12:36 (according to Sergeant Harkness). There's even a photograph of Styles standing next to the car of one of the officers who had just arrived there to lock down the building. We also know that Adams and Styles had to go down the stairs and then walk around the building to the front entrance.

If, as Mytton claims,

the LNs should be able to explain how Adams and Styles managed to get to the front entrance of the building at 12:36, if they indeed waited more than 30 seconds and did indeed see Shelley and Lovelady some 5 minutes after the shooting.

If they can't explain this, their entire claim is obviously bogus!

Det Sawyer explains that the front of the building was not locked down until 12:37 when he stationed two officers to prevent people from re-entering the building.

Sargeant Harkness stated the rear of the building was locked down by 12:36. Adams and Styles were told to return to the front of the building by an officer.

Adams and Styles encounter with Lovelady and Shelley at 12:35 fits neatly into the timeline indicated by Sawyer and Harkness.

Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off. There were officers all around the building. To the best of my recollection, there was no officer actually stationed on the front door, at the front door. There was some on the sidewalk in front of the front door, and also, as far as I know, had no instructions been issued to anyone to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. So yours would have been the first instructions to stop traffic from coming in and out of the front door, am I correct in that?
Mr. SAWYER. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. All right, anybody that would have been seen leaving the building would have been stopped and interrogated by the officers that were there? Even before you instructed them?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, because they were looking for something or anything, and I know that anybody coming out of the back doors, from what the Sergeant told me, they would have stopped them, too.

[Martin Weidmann]

Det Sawyer explains that the front of the building was not locked down until 12:37 when he stationed two officers to prevent people from re-entering the building.

Sargeant Harkness stated the rear of the building was locked down by 12:36. Adams and Styles were told to return to the front of the building by an officer.

Adams and Styles encounter with Lovelady and Shelley at 12:35 fits neatly into the timeline indicated by Sawyer and Harkness.

Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off. There were officers all around the building. To the best of my recollection, there was no officer actually stationed on the front door, at the front door. There was some on the sidewalk in front of the front door, and also, as far as I know, had no instructions been issued to anyone to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. So yours would have been the first instructions to stop traffic from coming in and out of the front door, am I correct in that?
Mr. SAWYER. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. All right, anybody that would have been seen leaving the building would have been stopped and interrogated by the officers that were there? Even before you instructed them?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, because they were looking for something or anything, and I know that anybody coming out of the back doors, from what the Sergeant told me, they would have stopped them, too.

So, what's your point. Do you really think one minute makes a difference to the puzzle?

Styles re-entered the building before it was locked down, which means somewhere between 12:36 and 12:37.

Do you really think that Adams and Styles were able to cover three sides of the building in high heels in 2 minutes?

[Jack Nessan]

So, what's your point. Do you really think one minute makes a difference to the puzzle?

Styles re-entered the building before it was locked down, which means somewhere between 12:36 and 12:37.

Do you really think that Adams and Styles were able to cover three sides of the building in high heels in 2 minutes?

Yes, it is nothing more than Adams and Styles statements being matched up with Lovelady and Shelley's statements and the officers' time stamps.

[Martin Weidmann]

Yes, it is nothing more than Adams and Styles statements being matched up with Lovelady and Shelley's statements and the officers' time stamps.

Hilarious. The suggestion that those women could walk three sides of the building in 2 minutes wearing high heels is just plain silly.
Also, if Adams did see Shelley and Lovelady at the bottom of the stairs at 12:35, it would mean they did not leave the 4th floor until four minutes after the shots and there isn't a shred of evidence for that.
It's typical LN BS to dismiss everything the witnesses (in this case Adams and Garner) said, and call them liars (as Mytton did), except for the one part that fits their narrative but is physically simply impossible and does not match with all the other evidence.

So, let's follow the actual evidence and match up the statements!

Adams said she left the window immediately after the shots and went down the stairs. That took her roughly a minute (any longer and she would have run into Truly and Baker). Then she and Styles went down the stairs of the loading dock, turned left and ran towards the railway yard. That's another minute or so. They meet a policeman who tells them to return to the building, so they walk along side the annex of the building towards Elm street, there they turn left and walk along the front of the building towards the main entrance. That would have taken them another 2 minutes or so and gets them to the front door steps at roughly 12:34 or 12:35. Two minutes later Styles is photographed standing next to the steps.

The key point is that they would have been west of the building around 2 minutes or so after the shots, which is exactly when Lovelady and Shelley were there as well.

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - First of all, let's get you to tell us whom you left the steps with.
Mr. LOVELADY - Mr. Shelley.
Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---

Lovelady confirms that they started running towards the railroad tracks after first talking to Gloria Calvary. While running towards the railway tracks he saw Truly and Baker enter the building. That puts the start of their run at around 20 to 30 seconds after the shots.

<>

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.
Mr. BALL - How many steps?
Mr. LOVELADY - Twenty, 25.
Mr. BALL - Steps away and you looked back and saw him enter the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.

They then stayed about a estimated minute or a minute and a half at the west side of the building, which is roughly the same time Adams and Styles arrived at that location as well.

Shelley confirms Lovelady's statement;

Mr. BALL - After you heard these noises you said sounded like firecrackers this girl came up and said the President was shot?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah.
Mr. BALL - You were still standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - There was still some time lapse from the time you heard the noise like a firecracker and she came up?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Then you went out across Elm?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, to the divider.
Mr. BALL - Between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - The one street dead ends and the other street that goes on down under the viaduct?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you run out to the point or walk out?
MMr. SHELLEY - I believe we trotted out there.
Mr. BALL - Did you stay very long?
Mr. SHELLEY - Oh, it wasn't very long.
Mr. BALL - How long?
Mr. SHELLEY - Maybe a minute or two.

Except Shelley estimated they stayed west of the building for "maybe a minute or two".

Obviously, these times are not precise to the exact second, but they are close enough to conclude that Shelley and Lovelady were west of the building at the same time Adams and Styles were there.

If Adams and Styles had waited at the window some 75 seconds, as Charles Collins tried to suggest, they would have run into Truly and Baker on the stairs. That didn't happen.
Also, in that scenario, Dorothy Garner would not have been able to hear the women go down the stairs before Truly and Baker came up.

If they had stayed even longer at the window, they most likely would have missed Shelley and Lovelady all together, as they entered the TSBD through a door on the west side of the building and Adams and Styles came from behind the building. They also, in such a scenario, would not have been able to get to the front entrance before it was locked down.

You can twist and turn this thing anyway you like, but the only thing that you will never be able to get is Shelley and Lovelady standing somewhere on the first floor for Adams to see them as she came down the stairs. It simply doesn't match any scenario, although I fully expect that you will never accept that.

[Jack Nessan]

Hilarious. The suggestion that those women could walk three sides of the building in 2 minutes wearing high heels is just plain silly.
Also, if Adams did see Shelley and Lovelady at the bottom of the stairs at 12:35, it would mean they did not leave the 4th floor until four minutes after the shots and there isn't a shred of evidence for that.
It's typical LN BS to dismiss everything the witnesses (in this case Adams and Garner) said, and call them liars (as Mytton did), except for the one part that fits their narrative but is physically simply impossible and does not match with all the other evidence.

So, let's follow the actual evidence and match up the statements!

Adams said she left the window immediately after the shots and went down the stairs. That took her roughly a minute (any longer and she would have run into Truly and Baker). Then she and Styles went down the stairs of the loading dock, turned left and ran towards the railway yard. That's another minute or so. They meet a policeman who tells them to return to the building, so they walk along side the annex of the building towards Elm street, there they turn left and walk along the front of the building towards the main entrance. That would have taken them another 2 minutes or so and gets them to the front door steps at roughly 12:34 or 12:35. Two minutes later Styles is photographed standing next to the steps.

The key point is that they would have been west of the building around 2 minutes or so after the shots, which is exactly when Lovelady and Shelley were there as well.

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - First of all, let's get you to tell us whom you left the steps with.
Mr. LOVELADY - Mr. Shelley.
Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---

Lovelady confirms that they started running towards the railroad tracks after first talking to Gloria Calvary. While running towards the railway tracks he saw Truly and Baker enter the building. That puts the start of their run at around 20 to 30 seconds after the shots.

<>

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.
Mr. BALL - How many steps?
Mr. LOVELADY - Twenty, 25.
Mr. BALL - Steps away and you looked back and saw him enter the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.

They then stayed about a estimated minute or a minute and a half at the west side of the building, which is roughly the same time Adams and Styles arrived at that location as well.

Shelley confirms Lovelady's statement;

Mr. BALL - After you heard these noises you said sounded like firecrackers this girl came up and said the President was shot?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah.
Mr. BALL - You were still standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - There was still some time lapse from the time you heard the noise like a firecracker and she came up?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Then you went out across Elm?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, to the divider.
Mr. BALL - Between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - The one street dead ends and the other street that goes on down under the viaduct?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you run out to the point or walk out?
MMr. SHELLEY - I believe we trotted out there.
Mr. BALL - Did you stay very long?
Mr. SHELLEY - Oh, it wasn't very long.
Mr. BALL - How long?
Mr. SHELLEY - Maybe a minute or two.

Except Shelley estimated they stayed west of the building for "maybe a minute or two".

Obviously, these times are not precise to the exact second, but they are close enough to conclude that Shelley and Lovelady were west of the building at the same time Adams and Styles were there.

If Adams and Styles had waited at the window some 75 seconds, as Charles Collins tried to suggest, they would have run into Truly and Baker on the stairs. That didn't happen.
Also, in that scenario, Dorothy Garner would not have been able to hear the women go down the stairs before Truly and Baker came up.

If they had stayed even longer at the window, they most likely would have missed Shelley and Lovelady all together, as they entered the TSBD through a door on the west side of the building and Adams and Styles came from behind the building. They also, in such a scenario, would not have been able to get to the front entrance before it was locked down.

You can twist and turn this thing anyway you like, but the only thing that you will never be able to get is Shelley and Lovelady standing somewhere on the first floor for Adams to see them as she came down the stairs. It simply doesn't match any scenario, although I fully expect that you will never accept that.

You are forgetting the Officers. The officers were preventing people from leaving the building and were stationed directly behind the building. By Adams and Styles own statements they told them to return to the front and they did.

MW--Hilarious. The suggestion that those women could walk three sides of the building in 2 minutes wearing high heels is just plain silly.

I have no experience with running in high heels. Do you?


MW--Also, if Adams did see Shelley and Lovelady at the bottom of the stairs at 12:35, it would mean they did not leave the 4th floor until four minutes after the shots and there isn't a shred of evidence for that.

Yet that is what they said happened. You believe everything else they said but this?

The evidence that Adams and Styles never left the 4th floor until four minutes after is everywhere. It is the evidence that Adams and Styles left the fourth floor immediately, which does not exist.

[Mitch Todd]

Here's a puzzle the LNs won't be able to solve.

They claim that Adams and Styles did not leave the 4th window immediately after the shots and they use Adams' seeing Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor as "proof".

The problem with that "proof" is that Shelley and Lovelady did not re-enter the TSBD until about 5 minutes after the shots, and we know for a fact that Styles re-entered the building at the front entrance before it was locked down at 12:36 (according to Sergeant Harkness). There's even a photograph of Styles standing next to the car of one of the officers who had just arrived there to lock down the building. We also know that Adams and Styles had to go down the stairs and then walk around the building to the front entrance.

If, as Mytton claims,

the LNs should be able to explain how Adams and Styles managed to get to the front entrance of the building at 12:36, if they indeed waited more than 30 seconds and did indeed see Shelley and Lovelady some 5 minutes after the shooting.

If they can't explain this, their entire claim is obviously bogus!

The bogus item here is the idea that the building was "locked down" at 12:36.

Harkness' 12:36 transmission reads: "I have a witness that says came from the fifth floor of the Texas Depository bookstore at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now. We're going to seal off the building." That is, Harkness expresses the intent do lock down the building, and he hasn't begun to do it yet.

At the time Harkness made this transmission, he's at the west end of Old Elm, past the pergola, having just run into Amos Euins. He put Euins on the back of his trike, and drove him to the front of the TSBD. The Martin film shows Harkness trundling back to the TSBD with Euins on the back of his ride....while Inspector Sawyer's car pulls to the curb in the background. Sawyer, then, doesn't arrive at the TSBD until 12:36 at the earliest.

Once out of the car, Sawyer gets update on the situation by the officers there, then goes into the TSBD with them into the building. Sawyer's group takes the front elevator up to the 4th floor and looks around, running into Truly as he's on his way down from the roof. Seeing nothing incriminating on the fourth floor, Sawyer's group then takes the elevator back down to the first floor, then leave the building. This is the point in time where Sawyer says he stationed two officers at the front door with orders to no let anyone in or out.

Sawyer thought that three minutes elapsed from the time he got out of his car until he returned outside from the fourth floor expedition. So if arrives no earlier than 12:36, then the front door guard is posted no sooner than 12:39. I should point out that Sawyer's group spent enough time on the fourth floor that they made it back to a point near the back stairs for Truly to have seen them. Between 12:41 and 12:43 (and probably closer to 12:43 than 12:41) Sawyer makes his first broadcast of the afternoon, asking that more officers be sent to the TSBD. So Sawyer has to have returned from the 4th floor by then.

The upshot is that there were no officers guarding the front door until at least 12:39, and maybe not until after 12:40. Perhaps as late as 12:43.