Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview

[John Mytton]

you are entitled to your opinion that he bought the coke after the Baker encounter , that has to be your stance after all given it requires more time be given to Oswald to get change and buy the coke .and as an LN that does not suit your stance . opinion is not proof .the same applies really to your shirt theory .

So, Baker saw Oswald enter the lunchroom and Oswald already had a coke, which leads to the obvious question, why would Oswald need to re-enter the lunchroom, maybe to buy two cokes? Or is assassinating the President of the United States, just thirsty work?



JohnM

[Jack Nessan]

ok here is my

"i believe from memory when you talk about Oswald and a "COMMOTION" that you talking about what is in the harry holmes notes , notes that very clearly do not relay certain events in the order they happened or not at the times they happened . in the notes holmes has Oswald saying he was still on the 6th floor at the time of the shots , something the BUG tried to use to his advantage . we know oswald never placed himself on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting ." fergus obrien


ok here is my ORIGINAL comment .i will correct myself a tad in what i said as i perhaps could have worded it better .here is my original comment .

"i believe from memory when you talk about Oswald and a "COMMOTION" that you talking about what is in the Harry holmes notes , notes that very clearly do not relay certain events in the order they happened or not at the times they happened . in the notes Holmes has Oswald saying he was still on the 6th floor at the time of the shots , something the BUG tried to use to his advantage . we know Oswald never placed himself on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting ." fergus obrien

ok i did make clear i spoke from memory , i went and refreshed my memory . but you did post testimony and i did not mention testimony .what i should have said is that Harry holmes notes (well i guess statement might  be a better term to use ) have been used by LN to assert that Oswald placed HIMSELF on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting (12.30) or commotion , " the commotion surrounding the shooting ". Holmes notes on the surface can give that impression . i dont know if Holmes did that by accident or on purpose . but once one takes a look at the notes (and they have a little knowledge ) the problem becomes clear .so YES Holmes did not necessarily say Oswald placed himself on the 6th floor at 12.30 , but LN have asserted that Oswald did place himself there at that time based on Holmes notes / statement . what is paramount is that Oswald in no way EVER placed himself on the 6th floor at 12.30 .

you are correct i said "ASSERT " . that was meant in terms of LN . but i only mentioned all of this because you were specific in mentioning "THE COMMOTION " .

as regards baby sitting , when it comes to this case i neither request baby sitting NOR DO I NEED IT , and if i did you would be the last person i would ask . that is not to say that i know everything I DONT , and it is not to say that i wont ever err . i am human as are you , so i can assure you that we both will err or have at some point erred . there is no shame in being wrong , thi e shame comes from one being unable and unwilling to admit they are wrong .

"West does not prove anything, and he is not even remotely relevant to LHO. West heard nothing and was aware of mothing, but the same cannot be said of LHO, because, you know, LHO is going to see what was the commotion. " Jack

once again you chose not to understand what i said . i understand fully that you assert that Oswald was on the 6th floor and in the window thus he knew all too well what was going on . HOWEVER what you choose to assert and what you are able to provide proof of i am certain will differ greatly . my point was SO I THOUGHT VERY CLEAR , such that even a child could understand it . so here it is again but a bit more simplified for you . again FOR SAKE OF ARGUMENT ONLY . if Oswald was on the 2nd floor eating and West was on the 1st floor eating . logic dictates that if West inside the building  never heard a shot that equally the same COULD apply to Oswald . unlike you i am not making any assumptions .

"Seems a little upset to me. Probably because you are making things up." Jack

this is the second time you have accused me of making stuff up , i consider that an accusation that i have lied . so once again post here what you assert i have made up and or lied about  , oh and any proof in addition to prove i have made up or lied about anything . and yes i have the notes / statement (relevant section of them ) which i can post , but if you are any good at this SHOULD I REALLY NEED TO ?.

WOW, what a long way around the barn. Sorry but I won’t be looking Holmes’s notes up for you. 

What are you a squid? It appears you are trying to ink the waters in order to flea from what you said. Either post where Holmes said LHO was on the 6th floor or let it go. I am sure if there was any proof of him saying that it would have come out in his testimony.

Now you are changing and saying I “assert” LHO was on the 6th floor but not from Holmes’s notes like everyone else.

FO--“i understand fully that you assert that Oswald was on the 6th floor and in the window thus he knew all too well what was going on” 

FO--“LNs have tried to use his notes to assert that Oswald placed himself on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting.”

They way you are completely contradicting yourself it is more like a discussion with another Ct.

----------------------------

West has no relevance to LHO hearing the shots. None at all. Oswald was not on the 2nd floor eating. He said he came down to see what the commotion was about. Baker encounters LHO while LHO was walking into the 2nd floor lunch room.

Is there really a doubt why I think you just make things up?

[Fergus O'Brien]

So, Baker saw Oswald enter the lunchroom and Oswald already had a coke, which leads to the obvious question, why would Oswald need to re-enter the lunchroom, maybe to buy two cokes? Or is assassinating the President of the United States, just thirsty work?



JohnM

when did i say Oswald re entered the lunchroom ? when did i say he entered TWICE to buy cokes ? . in fact i never said he ENTERED at all . do try to keep up .

by the way and i an sure you will correct me if i am wrong , but Baker to my knowledge never claimed he saw Oswald walk in the lunchroom door . to my knowledge he said he saw a movement through the door window . which technically at the least is INSIDE .

[Fergus O'Brien]

WOW, what a long way around the barn. Sorry but I won’t be looking Holmes’s notes up for you. 

What are you a squid? It appears you are trying to ink the waters in order to flea from what you said. Either post where Holmes said LHO was on the 6th floor or let it go. I am sure if there was any proof of him saying that it would have come out in his testimony.

Now you are changing and saying I “assert” LHO was on the 6th floor but not from Holmes’s notes like everyone else.

FO--“i understand fully that you assert that Oswald was on the 6th floor and in the window thus he knew all too well what was going on” 

FO--“LNs have tried to use his notes to assert that Oswald placed himself on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting.”

They way you are completely contradicting yourself it is more like a discussion with another Ct.

----------------------------

West has no relevance to LHO hearing the shots. None at all. Oswald was not on the 2nd floor eating. He said he came down to see what the commotion was about. Baker encounters LHO while LHO was walking into the 2nd floor lunch room.

Is there really a doubt why I think you just make things up?

"Sorry but I won’t be looking Holmes’s notes up for you " Jack

if you were any good at this you would not need to check up . i had no need to check Holmes notes / statement , but in the interests of trying to be as accurate as i could and not always rely upon memory i did check and i refreshed my memory .

"What are you a squid? It appears you are trying to ink the waters in order to flea from what you said. Either post where Holmes said LHO was on the 6th floor or let it go. I am sure if there was any proof of him saying that it would have come out in his testimony." Jack

i was crystal clear on this . i even posted a child proof comment / explanation for you .

"FO--“i understand fully that you assert that Oswald was on the 6th floor and in the window thus he knew all too well what was going on” 

FO--“LNs have tried to use his notes to assert that Oswald placed himself on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting.” " Jack

so then it is NOT your assertion as an LN that Oswald was on the 6th floor and in the window shooting at 12.30 ?  . so as an LN where do you assert that Oswald was at 12.30 ? .do tell .

YES just about every LN ive spoken to asserts based on Holmes notes / statement that Oswald SLIPPED UP and placed himself on the 6th floor at 12.30 .

"West has no relevance to LHO hearing the shots. None at all. Oswald was not on the 2nd floor eating. He said he came down to see what the commotion was about. Baker encounters LHO while LHO was walking into the 2nd floor lunch room. " Jack

Mr. BAKER - As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there.
Mr. DULLES - Where was he coming from, do you know?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir. All I seen of him was a glimpse of him go away from me.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?
Mr. BAKER - I ran on over there
Representative BOGGS -You mean where he was?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. There is a door there with a glass, it seemed to me like about a 2 by 2, something like that, and then there is another door which is 6 foot on over there, and there is a hallway over there and a hallway entering into a lunchroom, and when I got to where I could. see him he was walking away from me about 20 feet away from me in the lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do?
Mr. BAKER - I hollered at him at that time and said, "Come here." He turned and walked right straight back to me.
Mr. BELIN - Where were you at the time you hollered?
Mr. BAKER - I was standing in the hallway between this door and the second door, right at the edge of the second door.

EXACTLY where above did Baker under oath claim he saw Oswald WALKING INTO THE LUNCHROOM ? .


"Is there really a doubt why I think you just make things up?" Jack

hmmm ? well YES there will always be doubt while you can offer no proof that i did what you claim .

[Fergus O'Brien]

" when asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting , he stated that when lunch time came , and he didnt say which floor he was on , he said that one of the negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "you go on down and send the elevator back up and i will join you in a few minuets " . before he could finish what ever he was doing , he stated that the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he went down stairs , a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that " he is one of our employees" whereupon the policeman had him step aside momentarily .following this he simply walked out the front door of the building ." from Harry holmes notes / statement
http://www.prayer-man.com/usps/harry-dean-holmes/#lightbox[group]/3/

i post the above for those that desire to see it and read it . ok so lets start with the first line

"when asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting , he stated that when lunch time came "

please note the two words in bold LUNCH TIME , when lunch time came . when did employees break for lunch ? . well at some time in and around 11.45 am . Oswald was seen after that point at 11.50am on the 1st floor by his superior Bill shelly . so in the very first line it is very clear we are talking about Oswald and his co workers being on the 6th floor at about 11.45 am , then breaking for lunch ,  and Oswald then being seen on the 1st floor at 11.50 am by his superior .

in the first and second line it is said Oswald was invited to eat lunch , i dont believe it was anything so formal as an invite , rather that it was a HEY LEE ITS LUNCH TIME , YOU TAKING A BREAK ?. in fact oswald said he ATE ALONE and jarmin and norman stated they never ate with him .

"he said that one of the negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "you go on down and send the elevator back up and i will join you in a few minuets " . before he could finish what ever he was doing , he stated that the commotion surrounding the assassination took place "

now they broke for lunch about 11.45 am . the commotion surrounding the assassination took place AFTER 12.30 pm . so it should now be very clear that the above are different incidents some 45 minutes apart . but placed together by Holmes notes . statements .

"and when he went down stairs , a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that " he is one of our employees" "

Oswald in no instance placed himself ABOVE the second floor . he said he ate lunch alone . one witness said she saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom between 12.15 and 12.20 in a booth eating alone .

[John Mytton]

when did i say Oswald re entered the lunchroom ? when did i say he entered TWICE to buy cokes ? . in fact i never said he ENTERED at all . do try to keep up .

by the way and i an sure you will correct me if i am wrong , but Baker to my knowledge never claimed he saw Oswald walk in the lunchroom door . to my knowledge he said he saw a movement through the door window . which technically at the least is INSIDE .

when did i say Oswald re entered the lunchroom ? when did i say he entered TWICE to buy cokes ? . in fact i never said he ENTERED at all . do try to keep up .

What you say is irrelevant, I'm only interested in the evidence from Baker himself and the actual layout of the 2nd floor.

1. You do realize that the vestibule was a separate area to the lunchroom?



2. According to the plan of the 2nd floor, from Baker's position(B) at the top of the stairs, you can't see through the door of the vestibule door window into the lunchroom. And the following photo from within the Lunchroom you can see through the vestibule door window and see the window to the relative left of the top of the stairs



3. Baker saw enough of Oswald to calculate that Oswald was hurriedly moving away from Law Enforcement because Oswald moved quite far in the same time that Baker ran from the top of the stairs to the door. By the time Officer Baker reaches the vestibule door, Oswald has now decided to not "hang around" but Oswald is suspiciously hurrying out of the corridor and is now about 20 feet away from Officer Baker?

Mr. BAKER - Evidently he was hurrying because at this point here, I was running, and I ran on over here to this door.

Mr. BELIN - All right. I see a coke machine off on the left. When you saw Oswald after you got to this doorway inside the lunchroom, had he gone as far as the coke machine?
Mr. BAKER - I didn't notice the coke machine or any item in the room there All I was looking at was the man, and he seemed to be approximately 20 feet down there from me.



4. Another clue is that Baker says that the door might have been closing and regardless if the door was almost shut, it is another key indicator that Oswald was just on the other side of the outer vestibule door
Mr. DULLES - Had he meanwhile gone on through the door ahead of you?
Mr. BAKER - I can't say whether he had gone on through that door or not. All I did was catch a glance at him, and evidently he was--this door might have been, you know, closing and almost shut at that time.



Conclusion

Oswald would have heard Truly yelling up the stairs, so Oswald ducked into the vestibule corridor and waited for Truly to leave, then as Oswald was opening the door or about to open the door, to continue down the stairs, Oswald unexpectedly saw Officer Baker through the Vestibule door window and Oswald in a blind panic hurriedly moved into the explainable neutral Lunchroom.
Every movement and action Oswald did on the 22nd was the product of a Murderer on the run, fleeing the two crime scenes! 

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So now that you have been reliably informed, I ask again, "why would Oswald need to re-enter the lunchroom, maybe to buy two cokes?"

Btw it's hilarious, that it's you, not me, that needs to "try and keep up". LOL!

JohnM

[Jack Nessan]

"Sorry but I won’t be looking Holmes’s notes up for you " Jack

if you were any good at this you would not need to check up . i had no need to check Holmes notes / statement , but in the interests of trying to be as accurate as i could and not always rely upon memory i did check and i refreshed my memory .

"What are you a squid? It appears you are trying to ink the waters in order to flea from what you said. Either post where Holmes said LHO was on the 6th floor or let it go. I am sure if there was any proof of him saying that it would have come out in his testimony." Jack

i was crystal clear on this . i even posted a child proof comment / explanation for you .

"FO--“i understand fully that you assert that Oswald was on the 6th floor and in the window thus he knew all too well what was going on” 

FO--“LNs have tried to use his notes to assert that Oswald placed himself on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting.” " Jack

so then it is NOT your assertion as an LN that Oswald was on the 6th floor and in the window shooting at 12.30 ?  . so as an LN where do you assert that Oswald was at 12.30 ? .do tell .

YES just about every LN ive spoken to asserts based on Holmes notes / statement that Oswald SLIPPED UP and placed himself on the 6th floor at 12.30 .

"West has no relevance to LHO hearing the shots. None at all. Oswald was not on the 2nd floor eating. He said he came down to see what the commotion was about. Baker encounters LHO while LHO was walking into the 2nd floor lunch room. " Jack

Mr. BAKER - As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there.
Mr. DULLES - Where was he coming from, do you know?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir. All I seen of him was a glimpse of him go away from me.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?
Mr. BAKER - I ran on over there
Representative BOGGS -You mean where he was?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. There is a door there with a glass, it seemed to me like about a 2 by 2, something like that, and then there is another door which is 6 foot on over there, and there is a hallway over there and a hallway entering into a lunchroom, and when I got to where I could. see him he was walking away from me about 20 feet away from me in the lunchroom.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do?
Mr. BAKER - I hollered at him at that time and said, "Come here." He turned and walked right straight back to me.
Mr. BELIN - Where were you at the time you hollered?
Mr. BAKER - I was standing in the hallway between this door and the second door, right at the edge of the second door.

EXACTLY where above did Baker under oath claim he saw Oswald WALKING INTO THE LUNCHROOM ? .


"Is there really a doubt why I think you just make things up?" Jack

hmmm ? well YES there will always be doubt while you can offer no proof that i did what you claim .

I think comparing you to a squid is unfair to squids. They at least have a purpose for what they do, while you are just wandering around making it up as you go and changing your storyline to fit the circumstances.

Assert leaves some room for doubt as to whether. There is no doubt, LHO was on the 6th floor firing his rifle at JFK.

------------------------------

Not one thing you have “asserted” is true. Not one thing you have posted “asserts” what you have been stating. Maybe read your posts again and explain where Holmes states LHO was on the 6th floor or LHO was not walking away from Baker into the 2nd floor lunch room.

 FO--” "he said that one of the negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "you go on down and send the elevator back up and i will join you in a few minuets " . before he could finish what ever he was doing , he stated that the commotion surrounding the assassination took place "
 
FO--“now they broke for lunch about 11.45 am . the commotion surrounding the assassination took place AFTER 12.30 pm . so it should now be very clear that the above are different incidents some 45 minutes apart . but placed together by Holmes notes . Statements,”  "and when he went down stairs , a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that " he is one of our employees" "

After the shooting LHO came down to the stairs to see what the commotion was where he had the 2nd floor encounter with Baker. That is what Holmes stated and you confirmed.

[Jack Nessan]

" when asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting , he stated that when lunch time came , and he didnt say which floor he was on , he said that one of the negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "you go on down and send the elevator back up and i will join you in a few minuets " . before he could finish what ever he was doing , he stated that the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he went down stairs , a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that " he is one of our employees" whereupon the policeman had him step aside momentarily .following this he simply walked out the front door of the building ." from Harry holmes notes / statement
http://www.prayer-man.com/usps/harry-dean-holmes/#lightbox[group]/3/

i post the above for those that desire to see it and read it . ok so lets start with the first line

"when asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting , he stated that when lunch time came "

please note the two words in bold LUNCH TIME , when lunch time came . when did employees break for lunch ? . well at some time in and around 11.45 am . Oswald was seen after that point at 11.50am on the 1st floor by his superior Bill shelly . so in the very first line it is very clear we are talking about Oswald and his co workers being on the 6th floor at about 11.45 am , then breaking for lunch ,  and Oswald then being seen on the 1st floor at 11.50 am by his superior .

in the first and second line it is said Oswald was invited to eat lunch , i dont believe it was anything so formal as an invite , rather that it was a HEY LEE ITS LUNCH TIME , YOU TAKING A BREAK ?. in fact oswald said he ATE ALONE and jarmin and norman stated they never ate with him .

"he said that one of the negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "you go on down and send the elevator back up and i will join you in a few minuets " . before he could finish what ever he was doing , he stated that the commotion surrounding the assassination took place "

now they broke for lunch about 11.45 am . the commotion surrounding the assassination took place AFTER 12.30 pm . so it should now be very clear that the above are different incidents some 45 minutes apart . but placed together by Holmes notes . statements .

"and when he went down stairs , a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that " he is one of our employees" "

Oswald in no instance placed himself ABOVE the second floor . he said he ate lunch alone . one witness said she saw Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom between 12.15 and 12.20 in a booth eating alone .

Incredible did you not even read it? You have managed to put on, in full display, your own intelligence, at the same time managing to insult the intelligence of everyone else.

You have managed to post information that is in direct conflict with what you are stating now and have been stating all along.