Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview

[Jack Nessan]

A completely meaningless post.
In the pic below Adams, Styles, Garner and Dorman are supposed to be stood at the open set of windows. They are nowhere to be seen. Look to the set of windows to the left and there is a woman stood looking out of the window. Look at how much of her we can see - from her knees upwards. Even if Adams and co. were stood "back a little in the room" we would still see them:



This is exactly the kind of piss-weak response i was expecting.
Ignore all the testimony, ignore the photographic evidence and make up a piss-poor scenario that isn't attested to anywhere.
Good work Jack.
Adams states in numerous and various different ways that immediately after the shooting she raced down the stairs with Sandra Styles. Dorothy Garner has stated she followed them out of the office in time to hear them clattering down the stairs. After a couple of minutes she saw Truly and an officer (obviously Baker) coming up the same stairs.
Adams and Styles never see Truly and Baker. Truly and Baker never see Adams and Styles. The Dillard pic explains why - Adams and Styles were gone within ten seconds of the shooting and were running flat out. They hit the first floor and were out the back door before Truly and Baker were on the scene.
At no point is there any hint or mention of the women going to the back of the office for a chat. It's just a really weak attempt to change what the evidence is telling us.
Adams wants to know what's going on. She believes the President has been shot at and may have been hit. Before the limo reaches the underpass she decides to race outside to find out what's going on. She talks to everyone she meets if they know about the President being shot. She listens to the radio transmissions on the motorcycle to try and get some information about it.
To put forward the suggestion that she waited out of sight of the only windows she could see out of, towards the back of the office, is genuinely poor.

The reason Adams and Styles are not seen in the Dillard pic is because they are already racing out of the office - just like they said they did. Confirmed by Garner. Confirmed by the Stroud document.

Shelley stated they ran across the street where he spoke to Calvary. Lovelady stated they headed towards the limo and it sped off. He states they stayed there for approximately 5 minutes before returning to the TSBD.

I see I'm going to have to spoon feed you the point I've been labouring to make in my last few posts -

Shelley and Lovelady lied about their movements after the shooting!

That is the importance of what Adams witnesses.
Within a matter of seconds she is on the first floor. Lovelady and Shelley are already there!
In their affidavits taken a couple of hours after the assassination neither man mentions staying outside of the building for any amount of time. Neither mention going down the Elm Street extension. Neither mention hanging around the railroad yard watching what was going on. Neither mention re-entering the building through the west door. Both men give the distinct impression that they went back inside the building, through the front door, almost immediately after the shooting.
Adams confirms that this is exactly what they did.
In all their subsequent statements both Shelley and Lovelady lied about staying outside after the assassination.
They lied to cover up the fact that they had rushed towards the back of the TSBD building within seconds of the shooting.

Why did they do that?

Note - it's strange how everyone really relies on the testimonies of Shelley and Lovelady for various timings. I had done it myself until I listened to the recording of the interview posted in this thread. It hadn't dawned on me to simply accept what Adams was saying - that she immediately raced downstairs, she hit the first floor within one minute of the shooting and Lovelady and Shelley were already there.

If Lovelady and, in particular, Shelley, were lying through their teeth about their movements after the assassination, what else did they lie about?

Another Ignored Witness Found

     © 2011 by Barry Ernest

 

     When she first heard the shots, Dorothy Ann Garner was sitting at

a desk behind a fourth-floor window of the Texas School Book

Depository............

.....On November 22, 1963, Mrs. Garner took a break from her duties

and joined the three other women to watch as the presidential

motorcade passed below.   Elsie Dorman sat on the floor behind a

window that had been partially opened for her benefit; she was filming

the event with her husband's recently purchased video camera.  Behind

her stood Miss Styles and Miss Adams.

 

 

The woman in the window is who? The open window would only come to her waist which explains Dorman filming while sitting on the floor in front of the window.

Garner was at her desk during the assassination and only goes to the window later to see what was going on and stands by Adams and Styles. She only joins them after the motorcade had passed.

Dorman was sitting on the floor filming. Where is she? Adams and Styles would not be in front of Dorman. They would be behind her farther into the room just like Garner states.

Where is Norman? Both he and Williams were seen leaning out the window and looking up immediately after the shooting. He is not even in the picture.
===============================

You think with all that is going on outside that Shelley and Lovelady sprinted inside and stood by the elevator? Really? Why were they concerned about the elevator?

Shelley stated from day 1 that he ran over to the park where he encountered Calvery. Lovelady said “when it was over” they went back to the building. That could mean when they were done walking around, they then returned to the TSBD. It makes no sense that Shelley and Lovelady would sprint into the building to stand by the elevator.

 

[Richard Smith]

Words like "immediate" can mean different things to different people.  Particularly when dealing in increments of time down to seconds.


In the case of Vicki Adams, "immediate" means within ten seconds.
I can't wait to hear your piss-weak explanation for why we can't see any of the four women at the open window on the fourth floor.
The Dillard picture is proof Adams was already on her way downstairs.
Adams decides to set off before the limo has reached the underpass (something confirmed by the Dillard picture). According to your star witness, Brennan, the shooter is still stood in the SN at this time:

"Even as I hit the ground, my first instinct was to look back up to that man on the sixth floor. “Was he going to fire again?” I wondered. By now the motorcade was beginning to speed up and in only a couple of seconds the President’s car had disappeared under the triple underpass. To my amazement the man still stood there in the window! He didn’t appear to be rushed. There was no particular emotion visible on his face except for a slight smirk. It was a look of satisfaction, as if he had accomplished what he had set out to do. He seemed pleased that no one had realized where the shots were coming from. Then he did something that puzzled me. Very slowly and deliberately he set the rifle on its butt and just stayed there for a moment to savor what he had done, like a hunter who has “bagged his buck.” Then, with no sense of haste, he simply moved slowly away from the window until he disappeared from my line of vision."


So there's no need to worry about Adams not hearing Oswald on the stairs!! 

Adams hits the first floor and is out of the back door before Truly and Baker arrive at the elevators (confirmed by the Stroud document).
But she passes close by Lovelady and Shelley, who have raced to the back of the TSBD building for some unspecified reason. She is a witness to their presence at that location seconds after the shooting.
Lovelady and Shelley must be the two white men Baker reports seeing as he approaches the elevators.

The evidence places Oswald on the 6th floor (his rifle, prints and absence of any alibi) at the moment the shots were fired (i.e. 12:30)

This is a lie.
A deliberate falsehood.
You should be ashamed of yourself for constantly peddling this lie.
It shows a lack of character.

It shows a "lack of character" to conclude that Oswald was guilty based upon the evidence.  Wow.  You have a real emotional investment in his guilt.  No wonder logic is wasted.  Try to remove yourself from the forest of pedantic details many of which can't be possibly known down the level of seconds that you suggest absent a time machine.  Ask yourself this simple question which involves the use of logic to answer.  If Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 and on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later, doesn't that demonstrate beyond any doubt that he could move between those points without being seen regardless of your desperate pedantic interpretation of Adams words, recollections, and movements down to a few seconds?  If a thing has been done, that is the absolute best proof that it can be done.  Nothing further is required to prove that point.  Rather, a reassessment has to be made to the evidence that suggests it couldn't happen.

You already must accept most parts of that logical equation.  You don't dispute that Oswald was on the 2nd floor just a couple minutes after the assassination.  You don't dispute that to get from the 6th floor to the 2nd floor between 12:30 and the time Oswald was seen in the 2nd floor lunchroom the only way to get there in that timeframe was down the stairs.  You don't dispute that no one saw him or anyone else on those stairs.  We know someone was on the 6th floor at 12:30.  The only missing variable in the logic equation for you is apparently that it was Oswald on the 6th floor.  Any reasonable person would accept the mountain of evidence that he left behind to support that conclusion but even the most outlandish CTer must accept as part of any conspiracy that involves the framing Oswald is the critical component that he would not have been allowed to roam about the building while the conspirators were trying to frame him.  He certainly could not be allowed to sit in the lunchroom where he might have been given an alibi.  That is laughable.  What if he had done the most likely thing like most others and went outside to watch the motorcade?  Oswald would have been accounted for on the 6th floor.  And we know someone was on the 6th floor since witnesses saw that person and/or a rifle pointed out the window at the moment of the assassination.  He and/or your fantasy assassins must then have been able to go down the stairs unnoticed because that is what happened.  The endless rabbit hole analysis of Adams is just an example of CTers not being able to see the forest for all the trees. 

[Martin Weidmann]

It shows a "lack of character" to conclude that Oswald was guilty based upon the evidence.  Wow.  You have a real emotional investment in his guilt.  No wonder logic is wasted.  Try to remove yourself from the forest of pedantic details many of which can't be possibly known down the level of seconds that you suggest absent a time machine.  Ask yourself this simple question which involves the use of logic to answer.  If Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 and on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later, doesn't that demonstrate beyond any doubt that he could move between those points without being seen regardless of your desperate pedantic interpretation of Adams words, recollections, and movements down to a few seconds?  If a thing has been done, that is the absolute best proof that it can be done.  Nothing further is required to prove that point.  Rather, a reassessment has to be made to the evidence that suggests it couldn't happen.

You already must accept most parts of that logical equation.  You don't dispute that Oswald was on the 2nd floor just a couple minutes after the assassination.  You don't dispute that to get from the 6th floor to the 2nd floor between 12:30 and the time Oswald was seen in the 2nd floor lunchroom the only way to get there in that timeframe was down the stairs.  You don't dispute that no one saw him or anyone else on those stairs.  We know someone was on the 6th floor at 12:30.  The only missing variable in the logic equation for you is apparently that it was Oswald on the 6th floor.  Any reasonable person would accept the mountain of evidence that he left behind to support that conclusion but even the most outlandish CTer must accept as part of any conspiracy that involves the framing Oswald is the critical component that he would not have been allowed to roam about the building while the conspirators were trying to frame him.  He certainly could not be allowed to sit in the lunchroom where he might have been given an alibi.  That is laughable.  What if he had done the most likely thing like most others and went outside to watch the motorcade?  Oswald would have been accounted for on the 6th floor.  And we know someone was on the 6th floor since witnesses saw that person and/or a rifle pointed out the window at the moment of the assassination.  He and/or your fantasy assassins must then have been able to go down the stairs unnoticed because that is what happened.  The endless rabbit hole analysis of Adams is just an example of CTers not being able to see the forest for all the trees.

It shows a "lack of character" to conclude that Oswald was guilty based upon the evidence.  Wow.

No, it shows a total lack of character to pretend there is evidence to base such a conclusion on, when in fact there isn't even a shred of such evidence.

Try to remove yourself from the forest of pedantic details many of which can't be possibly known

Hilarious!

Translation; never mind the actual details, which I can not prove, just accept the superficial BS I offer as "evidence" and jump to a conclusion based on pathetic assumptions.....

Any clown who claims inconvenient details don't matter is not worth the time of day.

You already must accept most parts of that logical equation.  You don't dispute that Oswald was on the 2nd floor just a couple minutes after the assassination.  You don't dispute that to get from the 6th floor to the 2nd floor between 12:30 and the time Oswald was seen in the 2nd floor lunchroom the only way to get there in that timeframe was down the stairs.  You don't dispute that no one saw him or anyone else on those stairs.  We know someone was on the 6th floor at 12:30.  The only missing variable in the logic equation for you is apparently that it was Oswald on the 6th floor.

Thanks for a perfect demonstration of how a massive LN assumption, in your mind, suddenly becomes "evidence"!

"We know somebody was on the 6th floor and as we don't know for sure where Oswald was, he must have been the one that was on the 6th floor"

What is actually the most comical about this is that you don't even understand that what your are saying is nothing more than a superficial assumption for which there is no evidence.

[Dan O'meara]

Another Ignored Witness Found

     © 2011 by Barry Ernest

 

     When she first heard the shots, Dorothy Ann Garner was sitting at

a desk behind a fourth-floor window of the Texas School Book

Depository............

.....On November 22, 1963, Mrs. Garner took a break from her duties

and joined the three other women to watch as the presidential

motorcade passed below.   Elsie Dorman sat on the floor behind a

window that had been partially opened for her benefit; she was filming

the event with her husband's recently purchased video camera.  Behind

her stood Miss Styles and Miss Adams.

 

 

The woman in the window is who? The open window would only come to her waist which explains Dorman filming while sitting on the floor in front of the window.

Garner was at her desk during the assassination and only goes to the window later to see what was going on and stands by Adams and Styles. She only joins them after the motorcade had passed.

Dorman was sitting on the floor filming. Where is she? Adams and Styles would not be in front of Dorman. They would be behind her farther into the room just like Garner states.

Where is Norman? Both he and Williams were seen leaning out the window and looking up immediately after the shooting. He is not even in the picture.
===============================

You think with all that is going on outside that Shelley and Lovelady sprinted inside and stood by the elevator? Really? Why were they concerned about the elevator?

Shelley stated from day 1 that he ran over to the park where he encountered Calvery. Lovelady said “when it was over” they went back to the building. That could mean when they were done walking around, they then returned to the TSBD. It makes no sense that Shelley and Lovelady would sprint into the building to stand by the elevator.

Dorman was sitting on the floor filming. Where is she? Adams and Styles would not be in front of Dorman. They would be behind her farther into the room just like Garner states.

Where are they Jack? Why can't we see them?
Because they're stood farther into the room??
Is that why you're saying we can't see Adams and Styles in the Dillard pic?

free screenshot software

These quotes from Vicki are taken from Pat Speer's website:

"After the third shot she observed the car containing President Kennedy to speed up and rush away."

"Then the second shot I saw the Secret Service man run to the back of the President's car..."

"After the third shot I observed the car carrying President Kennedy speed away.”

"As the car came back into view I saw that something was wrong and watched as Mrs. Kennedy appeared to be trying to climb out of the car. I saw a Secret Service man jump in and the car began speeding toward the triple underpass. Before it reached that I turned to Sandra and I said, 'I want to see what is going on.'

Adams sees Jackie trying to get out of the limo and Hill jumping on to stop her. Then she sees the limo speed away towards the triple underpass. In order to see these things she must be close to the window looking towards the underpass. The diagram below gives a very rough idea of how far to the west of Adams position these events take place. She must be stood directly behind Dorman, leaning over to look out of the window.



The Dillard picture is taken within 5 seconds of these events yet Adams and Styles are nowhere to be seen in it. Adams makes it clear that before the limo reached the underpass she decided to race downstairs:

"After the third shot she observed the car containing President Kennedy to speed up and rush away...She and her friend then ran immediately to the back of the building to where the stairs are located."

"After the third shot I went out the back door."

"And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs..."

"I saw a Secret Service man jump in and the car began speeding toward the triple underpass. Before it reached that I turned to Sandra and I said, 'I want to see what is going on.' We ran to the back of the office and down the stairs."

You are free to ignore the physical evidence, free to ignore the photographic evidence, free to ignore the testimonial evidence and free to ignore common sense. I would expect no less from a Nutter.
But remember, this reflects on your own qualities as a "researcher".

Just out of interest - why are you so insistent that Adams didn't race down the stairs within seconds of the third shot?
What is it that you don't like about it?
Why are you so willing to ignore the available evidence?

You think with all that is going on outside that Shelley and Lovelady sprinted inside and stood by the elevator? Really? Why were they concerned about the elevator?

Why not read my posts? It would really help with this discussion.
I am taking Vicki's words at face value. The words recorded in her WC testimony and the exact same words she repeated in the interview posted in the OP of this thread.
She is saying that she raced downstairs immediately and was on the first floor within 30 - 60 seconds of the last shot. The Dillard picture confirms this. As does the Stroud document. When she reached the first floor she saw Lovelady and Shelley near the elevators.
These are her words.
I am examining the ramifications of these words.
I am asking the same question you are asking - why did Lovelady and Shelley race immediately towards the back of the TSBD building after the shooting? And why did they lie about it in all their subsequent testimonies?

[Dan O'meara]

It shows a "lack of character" to conclude that Oswald was guilty based upon the evidence.  Wow.  You have a real emotional investment in his guilt.  No wonder logic is wasted.  Try to remove yourself from the forest of pedantic details many of which can't be possibly known down the level of seconds that you suggest absent a time machine.  Ask yourself this simple question which involves the use of logic to answer.  If Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 and on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later, doesn't that demonstrate beyond any doubt that he could move between those points without being seen regardless of your desperate pedantic interpretation of Adams words, recollections, and movements down to a few seconds?  If a thing has been done, that is the absolute best proof that it can be done.  Nothing further is required to prove that point.  Rather, a reassessment has to be made to the evidence that suggests it couldn't happen.

You already must accept most parts of that logical equation.  You don't dispute that Oswald was on the 2nd floor just a couple minutes after the assassination.  You don't dispute that to get from the 6th floor to the 2nd floor between 12:30 and the time Oswald was seen in the 2nd floor lunchroom the only way to get there in that timeframe was down the stairs.  You don't dispute that no one saw him or anyone else on those stairs.  We know someone was on the 6th floor at 12:30.  The only missing variable in the logic equation for you is apparently that it was Oswald on the 6th floor.  Any reasonable person would accept the mountain of evidence that he left behind to support that conclusion but even the most outlandish CTer must accept as part of any conspiracy that involves the framing Oswald is the critical component that he would not have been allowed to roam about the building while the conspirators were trying to frame him.  He certainly could not be allowed to sit in the lunchroom where he might have been given an alibi.  That is laughable.  What if he had done the most likely thing like most others and went outside to watch the motorcade?  Oswald would have been accounted for on the 6th floor.  And we know someone was on the 6th floor since witnesses saw that person and/or a rifle pointed out the window at the moment of the assassination.  He and/or your fantasy assassins must then have been able to go down the stairs unnoticed because that is what happened.  The endless rabbit hole analysis of Adams is just an example of CTers not being able to see the forest for all the trees.

"It shows a "lack of character" to conclude that Oswald was guilty based upon the evidence.  Wow."

This shows how devious you are.
The "lack of character" reference was with regard to your constant peddling of the lie that the evidence places Oswald in the SN at 12:30pm taking the shots.
It's a lie - a deliberate falsehood. You know that the evidence does not show this yet you constantly peddle this lie.
This does indeed show a lack of character. As does your devious attempt to squirm out of your lie.
Luckily, your deviousness is as pathetic as your "logic".

If a thing has been done, that is the absolute best proof that it can be done.  Nothing further is required to prove that point.

 
And hear we have a prime example of "Smith's Logic"

IF OSWALD DID IT, THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE BEST PROOF THAT IT CAN BE DONE. NOTHING FURTHER IS REQUIRED TO PROVE THAT POINT!!

A child would be embarrassed by this logic.

Past experience of crushing you in front of the forum has taught me a very simple lesson - introduce some evidence and ask you a question you can't answer:

Where are Adams and Styles in the Dillard picture?

Goodbye 

[Martin Weidmann]

"It shows a "lack of character" to conclude that Oswald was guilty based upon the evidence.  Wow."

This shows how devious you are.
The "lack of character" reference was with regard to your constant peddling of the lie that the evidence places Oswald in the SN at 12:30pm taking the shots.
It's a lie - a deliberate falsehood. You know that the evidence does not show this yet you constantly peddle this lie.
This does indeed show a lack of character. As does your devious attempt to squirm out of your lie.
Luckily, your deviousness is as pathetic as your "logic".

If a thing has been done, that is the absolute best proof that it can be done.  Nothing further is required to prove that point.

 
And hear we have a prime example of "Smith's Logic"

IF OSWALD DID IT, THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE BEST PROOF THAT IT CAN BE DONE. NOTHING FURTHER IS REQUIRED TO PROVE THAT POINT!!

A child would be embarrassed by this logic.

Past experience of crushing you in front of the forum has taught me a very simple lesson - introduce some evidence and ask you a question you can't answer:

Where are Adams and Styles in the Dillard picture?

Goodbye 

And hear we have a prime example of "Smith's Logic"

IF OSWALD DID IT, THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE BEST PROOF THAT IT CAN BE DONE. NOTHING FURTHER IS REQUIRED TO PROVE THAT POINT!!

A child would be embarrassed by this logic.

What else do you expect from a guy who actually believes that the best evidence that Oswald came down the stairs unseen, within 75 seconds after the shots, is........"that it happened"   

Only a completely delusional individual is able to make a stupid statement as this!

[Jack Nessan]

Dorman was sitting on the floor filming. Where is she? Adams and Styles would not be in front of Dorman. They would be behind her farther into the room just like Garner states.

Where are they Jack? Why can't we see them?
Because they're stood farther into the room??
Is that why you're saying we can't see Adams and Styles in the Dillard pic?

free screenshot software

These quotes from Vicki are taken from Pat Speer's website:

"After the third shot she observed the car containing President Kennedy to speed up and rush away."

"Then the second shot I saw the Secret Service man run to the back of the President's car..."

"After the third shot I observed the car carrying President Kennedy speed away.”

"As the car came back into view I saw that something was wrong and watched as Mrs. Kennedy appeared to be trying to climb out of the car. I saw a Secret Service man jump in and the car began speeding toward the triple underpass. Before it reached that I turned to Sandra and I said, 'I want to see what is going on.'

Adams sees Jackie trying to get out of the limo and Hill jumping on to stop her. Then she sees the limo speed away towards the triple underpass. In order to see these things she must be close to the window looking towards the underpass. The diagram below gives a very rough idea of how far to the west of Adams position these events take place. She must be stood directly behind Dorman, leaning over to look out of the window.



The Dillard picture is taken within 5 seconds of these events yet Adams and Styles are nowhere to be seen in it. Adams makes it clear that before the limo reached the underpass she decided to race downstairs:

"After the third shot she observed the car containing President Kennedy to speed up and rush away...She and her friend then ran immediately to the back of the building to where the stairs are located."

"After the third shot I went out the back door."

"And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs..."

"I saw a Secret Service man jump in and the car began speeding toward the triple underpass. Before it reached that I turned to Sandra and I said, 'I want to see what is going on.' We ran to the back of the office and down the stairs."

You are free to ignore the physical evidence, free to ignore the photographic evidence, free to ignore the testimonial evidence and free to ignore common sense. I would expect no less from a Nutter.
But remember, this reflects on your own qualities as a "researcher".

Just out of interest - why are you so insistent that Adams didn't race down the stairs within seconds of the third shot?
What is it that you don't like about it?
Why are you so willing to ignore the available evidence?

You think with all that is going on outside that Shelley and Lovelady sprinted inside and stood by the elevator? Really? Why were they concerned about the elevator?

Why not read my posts? It would really help with this discussion.
I am taking Vicki's words at face value. The words recorded in her WC testimony and the exact same words she repeated in the interview posted in the OP of this thread.
She is saying that she raced downstairs immediately and was on the first floor within 30 - 60 seconds of the last shot. The Dillard picture confirms this. As does the Stroud document. When she reached the first floor she saw Lovelady and Shelley near the elevators.
These are her words.
I am examining the ramifications of these words.
I am asking the same question you are asking - why did Lovelady and Shelley race immediately towards the back of the TSBD building after the shooting? And why did they lie about it in all their subsequent testimonies?

Where are they Jack? Why can't we see them?

Exactly right what is not seen but should be seen is important.  We can’t see Elsie Dorman and we cannot see Harold Norman. Where are they and why are they not visible if the photo is 5 seconds after the third shot. What is known is Adams and styles were behind Dorman. If you can’t see Dorman, you definitely would not be able to see Adams and Styles. You don’t know if they are there or not. 

Adams sees Jackie trying to get out of the limo and Hill jumping on to stop her. Then she sees the limo speed away towards the triple underpass. In order to see these things she must be close to the window looking towards the underpass. The diagram below gives a very rough idea of how far to the west of Adams position these events take place. She must be stood directly behind Dorman, leaning over to look out of the window.

You can stand back from the window and see the roadway. The window is only 14 inches off the ground. She would be looking out of the top half of the window. The bottom half of the window was too low for her to look through. Maybe she is the person in the next window. 

You are free to ignore the physical evidence, free to ignore the photographic evidence, free to ignore the testimonial evidence and free to ignore common sense. I would expect no less from a Nutter.
But remember, this reflects on your own qualities as a "researcher".
 
The fact here to be considered is in her first statement to the FBI on 11/24, she had no idea what was going on and “she heard three loud reports which she first thought to be firecrackers of a crank”, not gunshots. Then they are watching the panicked people scatter. Her view was partially blocked by the tree. She never saw the president shot. All the additional knowledge came later.

Just out of interest - why are you so insistent that Adams didn't race down the stairs within seconds of the third shot?
What is it that you don't like about it?
Why are you so willing to ignore the available evidence?

The available evidence is lacking. Her story does not match the known times and statements of the other individuals involved. Shelley and Lovelady were outside until they returned at a later time. From day 1 Shelley states he went across the street to the park area where he encountered Calvery. So based on your timeline it would be impossible for him to be at the elevator. He is at the elevator 5 minutes later. Det Sawyer, Sgt Harkness, Patrolman Barnett, and Shelley and Lovelady provide time stamps that coincide with the movement of Adams and Styles. Those timestamps place Adams and Styles leaving the 4th floor at a later time than they estimate. 

Why not read my posts? It would really help with this discussion.
 
I have been reading them. The people missing in the picture idea is interesting but upon closer scrutiny has some very obvious flaws that call it into serious question. What you believe to be a fact can be easily explained in a more obvious manner and brings on more questions than it answers.
 

I am taking Vicki's words at face value.

But only hers and not anybody else's, they are being called liars. 

When she reached the first floor she saw Lovelady and Shelley near the elevators.
These are her words.

True. They said it was at 5 minutes post shot, not one minute later.
 
 

[Dan O'meara]

Where are they Jack? Why can't we see them?

Exactly right what is not seen but should be seen is important.  We can’t see Elsie Dorman and we cannot see Harold Norman. Where are they and why are they not visible if the photo is 5 seconds after the third shot. What is known is Adams and styles were behind Dorman. If you can’t see Dorman, you definitely would not be able to see Adams and Styles. You don’t know if they are there or not. 

Adams sees Jackie trying to get out of the limo and Hill jumping on to stop her. Then she sees the limo speed away towards the triple underpass. In order to see these things she must be close to the window looking towards the underpass. The diagram below gives a very rough idea of how far to the west of Adams position these events take place. She must be stood directly behind Dorman, leaning over to look out of the window.

You can stand back from the window and see the roadway. The window is only 14 inches off the ground. She would be looking out of the top half of the window. The bottom half of the window was too low for her to look through. Maybe she is the person in the next window. 

You are free to ignore the physical evidence, free to ignore the photographic evidence, free to ignore the testimonial evidence and free to ignore common sense. I would expect no less from a Nutter.
But remember, this reflects on your own qualities as a "researcher".
 
The fact here to be considered is in her first statement to the FBI on 11/24, she had no idea what was going on and “she heard three loud reports which she first thought to be firecrackers of a crank”, not gunshots. Then they are watching the panicked people scatter. Her view was partially blocked by the tree. She never saw the president shot. All the additional knowledge came later.

Just out of interest - why are you so insistent that Adams didn't race down the stairs within seconds of the third shot?
What is it that you don't like about it?
Why are you so willing to ignore the available evidence?

The available evidence is lacking. Her story does not match the known times and statements of the other individuals involved. Shelley and Lovelady were outside until they returned at a later time. From day 1 Shelley states he went across the street to the park area where he encountered Calvery. So based on your timeline it would be impossible for him to be at the elevator. He is at the elevator 5 minutes later. Det Sawyer, Sgt Harkness, Patrolman Barnett, and Shelley and Lovelady provide time stamps that coincide with the movement of Adams and Styles. Those timestamps place Adams and Styles leaving the 4th floor at a later time than they estimate. 

Why not read my posts? It would really help with this discussion.
 
I have been reading them. The people missing in the picture idea is interesting but upon closer scrutiny has some very obvious flaws that call it into serious question. What you believe to be a fact can be easily explained in a more obvious manner and brings on more questions than it answers.
 

I am taking Vicki's words at face value.

But only hers and not anybody else's, they are being called liars. 

When she reached the first floor she saw Lovelady and Shelley near the elevators.
These are her words.

True. They said it was at 5 minutes post shot, not one minute later.

Exactly right what is not seen but should be seen is important.

Yeah Jack, that's what I'm saying.
If Adams and Styles don't immediately race down the steps then they should still be at the window. But they're not. They're nowhere to be seen.
The reason for this is because, as Adams states in various different ways, within a few short seconds after the last shot is taken both she and Styles are running towards the back stairs.
I know you think she's lying, but the Dillard pic shows otherwise.

What is known is Adams and styles were behind Dorman. If you can’t see Dorman, you definitely would not be able to see Adams and Styles.

 
This is a piece of logic Dick would be proud of.
And your fixation with Harold Norman is really odd.

You don’t know if they are there or not.

 
They are definitely not there Jack.
What a bizarre thing to say!

One last time - in the last crop of the Dillard pic I posted there is a woman (either Yola Hopson or Ruth Nelson) stood in the set of windows to the west of the open window Adams and Styles were looking out of before they raced downstairs (I won't bother posting the pic again). She is stood as close to the window as Adams would need to be to see down towards the underpass and we can see her from the knees upwards as the window sills are only a few inches off the floor.
But when we look at the open window Adams and Styles and Dorman are supposed to be at there is absolutely no sign of them.
How far back in the room would they need to be before we couldn't see them ?
It would have to be a few feet at least. Why would they be stood a few feet back from the window? How could they see down towards the underpass if they were stood a few feet back in the room?
The scenario you are presenting is completely nuts (mind you, you are a Nutter).
It's incomprehensible how you can stand by such a ridiculous assertion and still consider yourself serious.

Adams isn't there because she and Styles are already racing towards the back stairs. She decides to race downstairs immediately after the third shot and before the limo has reached the underpass. Less than five seconds later the Dillard pic is taken, proving Adams was true to her words.
Your denial of this evidence is disappointing.

You can stand back from the window and see the roadway. The window is only 14 inches off the ground.

I know it's possible to see the road if you stand back from the window. That's not what I was saying - you're starting to come across a bit like Tricky Dicky.
The point I was making was that she would need to be stood close to the window to see towards the underpass as it's off to her right.
You know that's the point I was making as well.
Once this sort of trickiness is required it's a sure sign you're not interested in evidence, reason or honest debate.

Here's a question I will be requiring an answer to - in your  scenario, how far back from the window are Adams and Styles stood?

From day 1 Shelley states he went across the street to the park area where he encountered Calvery. So based on your timeline it would be impossible for him to be at the elevator.

How so?
I too accept that after the first shot Shelley ran across the Elm Street extension and encountered Calvery.

Det Sawyer, Sgt Harkness, Patrolman Barnett, and Shelley and Lovelady provide time stamps that coincide with the movement of Adams and Styles.

Sawyer, Barnett and Harkness have absolutely nothing to do with providing timestamps for the movements of Adams and Styles.
Only Shelley and Lovelady do, and they were lying to cover their tracks.

But only hers and not anybody else's, they are being called liars.

In regard to the movements of Adams and Styles, the only people I'm calling liars are Shelley and Lovelady.

True. They said it was at 5 minutes post shot, not one minute later.

I'm not going to ask you to cite where Shelley and Lovelady state they were near the elevators "5 minutes post shot".
We both know they said nothing of the sort.
You think Adams is a liar - you don't believe her when she says she took off at a run after the last shot and before the limo reached the underpass. Even though  the Dillard pic is photographic evidence perfectly confirming this account.
It is also the only way the Stroud document makes sense - for Adams and Styles to go down the stairs before Truly and Baker come up them, and for neither pair to see the other, can only happen if Adams and Styles race off immediately. It can happen no other way.
So ignore all this evidence like a good Nutter.

I think Shelley and Lovelady are liars but you think they're solid, but we've never really established which version of events you think they're telling the truth about.
Is it the version where Lovelady never leaves the steps and both men immediately re-enter the TSBD after the shooting and never go down to the railroad yard?
Or is it the version where they both race down to where the limo was and stay there for about 5 five minutes? - adding the time it would take to get there, get back to the TSBD and then to the elevators, it's difficult to understand how they could be seen by Adams 5 minutes after the shooting.
Or is it the version where they accompany some police officers to the railroad yard and stay there for ten minutes? - again, it's very difficult to imagine how they could be at the elevators within 5 five minutes, as you keep on insisting.
Or is it the version where they see Baker and Truly still stood outside the TSBD at least 3 minutes after the shooting, and they spend a few more minutes at the "little old island" then down at the railroad yard?
Or is it the version where Lovelady doesn't go back inside the TSBD building for 15 to 20 minutes after the shooting?


Which version is it Jack?