Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview

[Jack Nessan]

The statements of Adams and Styles when compared with the statements of the police surrounding and sealing off the building do not support an early departure.

I've asked you what key evidence convinces you Adams and Styles did not leave straight away and you come up with this vague, meaningless statement.
Adams is absolutely clear that, before the limo even reaches the underpass she turns to Styles and basically says "Let's go". Styles confirms this. So Adams and Styles are saying they started to race down the stairs within seconds of the last shot.
This is confirmed by Garner, the Dillard pic and the Stroud document.

What police statement undermines this?
How does any police statement undermine this?
In exactly what way?

You are calling these men liars because they had their statements cut short to what was important to gaining information and knowledge of the shooting that day by the people taking them.

 
Oh boy...you do say some very silly things.
So both men are cut short while they are giving their affidavits? Is that what you are trying to say?
Even though Shelley goes on to give another affidavit after the first one??
The person taking down the statements is so rushed off their feet they don't even bother to record what witnesses are telling them? Is that what you think happened?
Is this your truly pathetic explanation as to why neither man mentions going down the Elm Street extension after the shooting? Why they forget to mention they were hanging around the railroad yard watching what was going on? Why it slipped their mind to mention they had re-entered the TSBD building through the west door?
Talk about a fantasist!

I've asked you what key evidence convinces you Adams and Styles did not leave straight away and you come up with this vague, meaningless statement.

You know what the police at the scene stated. You know how it relates to Adams and Styles travels. If you don’t want to believe what the police stated and then confirmed by Adams and Styles, then don’t, but do not pretend the statements do not exist.

 How can you even begin to believe that Shelley and Lovelady would walk away from the TSBD and then turn around and sprint back, that is truly unbelievable and then post it like it really could have happened?

This is confirmed by Garner, the Dillard pic and the Stroud document

Point out the confirmation. Garner was at her desk and then joined them later, if anything it shows they left later than what you are portraying. The Dillard pic does not show anything but what you want to believe. The Stroud document is Garners recollection.


Why they forget to mention they were hanging around the railroad yard watching what was going on? Why it slipped their mind to mention they had re-entered the TSBD building through the west door?

Did you not realize everyone’s WC statements are a great deal more detailed than the affidavits and why would that be? I will bet it was because people are asking for more detail based on the questions that arose from knowledge of the assassination. Only you seem to realize what was important at the time and what people should have known was important. Of all things, Adams was surprised the shots came from the building. Both Adams and Styles felt it was important to relate the cop in the back telling them to return to the front but you blow that off because it does not fit the immediate departure scenario you have been pushing.

You have made this mountain out of a mole hill based solely on what you want to portray and completely failed to consider the most obvious facts. Where is the HSCA investigation into this great mystery and what did they conclude about Adams and Styles travels? 

[Dan O'meara]

I'm putting forward is that no-one on the steps reports Shelley and Lovelady going back inside the building. I would assume that everyone on the steps knows who they are but, somehow, nobody notices them going back inside.

Huh? How about why would they? 

If it takes her 30 seconds to get back to the TSBD then there's no way Shelley can run into her and then make his way to the back of the first floor in time for Adams to see him.
Enjoy.

Who is Gloria and why are her movements important?

Seriously, why would anyone pay any attention to the movements of Shelley and Lovelady? The question that was trying to be answered was if the girls left as early as they stated how did they miss seeing everyone?

The Adams and Styles Story has two parts.

Part one is the girls run to the bottom of the steps. That is nothing more than their recollections and statements. They say it happened and you believe it and everyone else in the story are liars. Boy wasn't that easy.

Part two is the time stamps placed on their travels by Shelley and Lovelady, Sgt Harkness, Detective Sawyer, Officer Barnett and the girls themselves. All understanding it requires is reading and understanding what you are reading. It is much easier to deal with an unsupported storyline from the girls. How could they possibly be mistaken, right. Believing them takes no thought at all. But backtracking from known times stated by the police present at the time tells a different story on their departure. It is not that complicated.

Huh? How about why would they?

Seriously, why would anyone pay any attention to the movements of Shelley and Lovelady?

Agreed 
There was a lot of commotion at the time, there's no real reason why anyone would notice Shelley and Lovelady re-entering the building.
And even if they did, no-one was questioned about it.
I'm glad we can agree on that.

Who is Gloria and why are her movements important?

 
You have posted some real nonsense in this thread but this is a new low.
Who is Gloria Calvery??
Really??
This proves you have zero grasp of the most basic aspects of this case. It's really embarrassing.
Once again, let me help you out 

From Shelley's affidavit taken the day of the assassination:

"I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. This girl's name is Gloria Calvery..."

From Lovelady's WC testimony:

Mr. LOVELADY: I thought it was firecrackers or somebody celebrating the arrival of the President. It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot.
Mr. Ball: Who was this girl?
Mr. Lovelady: Gloria Calvary.

From Joe Molina's WC testimony:

Mr. Ball: Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. Molina: Yes.
Mr. Ball: Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.
Mr. Ball: What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent.

Gloria was stood on the north side of Elm street "about half way between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass" watching the motorcade with her friends and colleagues Karen Westbrook, Karan Hicks and Carol Reed.
She was stood a matter of feet away from the limo when the first shot rang out and she had a close-up unobstructed view of JFK when his head literally exploded. The traumatised Gloria immediately raced back to the TSBD building crying and hysterically telling everyone she met that the President had been shot.
Other than the three mentioned above, who knew Gloria by name, there are others who report a hysterical woman loudly telling people about the shooting.

WC testimony of Buell Frazier:

Mr. Ball: Did anybody say anything about what had happened, did you hear anybody say anything about the President had been shot?
Mr. Frazier: Yes, sir; right before I went back, some girl who had walked down a little bit further where I was standing on the steps, and somebody come back and said somebody had shot President Kennedy.
Mr. Ball: Do you know who it was who told you that?
Mr. Frazier: Sir?
Mr. Ball: Do you know who the girl was who told you that?
Mr. Frazier: She didn't tell me right directly but she just came back and more or less in a low kind of hollering she just told several people.

This is surely a reference to Gloria, when she comes back to the steps and is telling people about the shooting of the President. Her voice is loud enough to be heard by most people on the steps, including Frazier on the top step. She is clearly distressed and her voice is "a low kind of hollering". For those people on the steps, most would have recognised that shots were fired as the President passed by and now there is a distressed young woman telling them the President had been shot. It might well have been their first knowledge of the assassination.

There are other reports of an 'hysterical' woman in the area near the front steps talking about the shooting of the President. It is clear she must have come from near where the shooting happened and made her way back to the TSBD building as those in this area had no idea the President had been shot.

From the WC testimony of Dallas police officer Joe Marshall Smith

Mr. Smith: Yes, sir.; and this woman came up to me and she was just in hysterics. She told me, "They are shooting the President from the bushes." So I immediately proceeded up here.
Mr. Liebeler: You proceeded up to an area immediately behind the concrete structure here that is described by Elm Street and the street that runs immediately in front of the Texas School Book Depository, is that right?
Mr. Smith: I was checking all the bushes and I checked all the cars in the parking lot.

Smith was working on the corner of Elm and Houston. Immediately after hearing shots he makes his way down the Elm Street extension and bumps into this 'hysterical' woman. Gloria would have run back up Elm Street to the 'spur' where she runs into Shellley and then across the Elm Street extension to the front steps of the TSBD building. Their paths would have crossed on the extension somewhere in front of the steps. I strongly suspect this 'hysterical' woman is Gloria because she is aware that the President has been shot. After this interaction Smith races up the extension towards the concrete pergola and the railroad yard.
If the woman is Gloria then it is possible to use the film record to establish how quickly Gloria got from her position on Elm Street back to the TSBD building steps.
Below is a still from footage taken by Jimmy Darnell which includes the moment Baker has left his bike and is about to cross the Elm Street extension. In the background, racing up the extension towards the railroad yard, is officer Smith:



At this point, Smith has already had his interaction with Gloria and is heading up the extension. If it can be established how many seconds after the shooting this moment is, it can be established how quickly Gloria got back to the steps. This is important because by the time this still is taken, Gloria has already had her interaction with Shelley as stated in his affidavit.

[Jack Nessan]

Huh? How about why would they?

Seriously, why would anyone pay any attention to the movements of Shelley and Lovelady?

Agreed 
There was a lot of commotion at the time, there's no real reason why anyone would notice Shelley and Lovelady re-entering the building.
And even if they did, no-one was questioned about it.
I'm glad we can agree on that.

Who is Gloria and why are her movements important?

 
You have posted some real nonsense in this thread but this is a new low.
Who is Gloria Calvery??
Really??
This proves you have zero grasp of the most basic aspects of this case. It's really embarrassing.
Once again, let me help you out 

From Shelley's affidavit taken the day of the assassination:

"I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. This girl's name is Gloria Calvery..."

From Lovelady's WC testimony:

Mr. LOVELADY: I thought it was firecrackers or somebody celebrating the arrival of the President. It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot.
Mr. Ball: Who was this girl?
Mr. Lovelady: Gloria Calvary.

From Joe Molina's WC testimony:

Mr. Ball: Do you know a girl named Gloria Calvary?
Mr. Molina: Yes.
Mr. Ball: Did Gloria come up?
Ms.. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.
Mr. Ball: What did she say?
Mr. MOLINA. She said "Oh, my God, Joe, he's been shot." They were both horrified. I said "Are you sure he was shot?" She said "Oh, Joe ,I'm sure. I saw his hair fly up and I'm sure he was shot" something to that extent.

Gloria was stood on the north side of Elm street "about half way between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass" watching the motorcade with her friends and colleagues Karen Westbrook, Karan Hicks and Carol Reed.
She was stood a matter of feet away from the limo when the first shot rang out and she had a close-up unobstructed view of JFK when his head literally exploded. The traumatised Gloria immediately raced back to the TSBD building crying and hysterically telling everyone she met that the President had been shot.
Other than the three mentioned above, who knew Gloria by name, there are others who report a hysterical woman loudly telling people about the shooting.

WC testimony of Buell Frazier:

Mr. Ball: Did anybody say anything about what had happened, did you hear anybody say anything about the President had been shot?
Mr. Frazier: Yes, sir; right before I went back, some girl who had walked down a little bit further where I was standing on the steps, and somebody come back and said somebody had shot President Kennedy.
Mr. Ball: Do you know who it was who told you that?
Mr. Frazier: Sir?
Mr. Ball: Do you know who the girl was who told you that?
Mr. Frazier: She didn't tell me right directly but she just came back and more or less in a low kind of hollering she just told several people.

This is surely a reference to Gloria, when she comes back to the steps and is telling people about the shooting of the President. Her voice is loud enough to be heard by most people on the steps, including Frazier on the top step. She is clearly distressed and her voice is "a low kind of hollering". For those people on the steps, most would have recognised that shots were fired as the President passed by and now there is a distressed young woman telling them the President had been shot. It might well have been their first knowledge of the assassination.

There are other reports of an 'hysterical' woman in the area near the front steps talking about the shooting of the President. It is clear she must have come from near where the shooting happened and made her way back to the TSBD building as those in this area had no idea the President had been shot.

From the WC testimony of Dallas police officer Joe Marshall Smith

Mr. Smith: Yes, sir.; and this woman came up to me and she was just in hysterics. She told me, "They are shooting the President from the bushes." So I immediately proceeded up here.
Mr. Liebeler: You proceeded up to an area immediately behind the concrete structure here that is described by Elm Street and the street that runs immediately in front of the Texas School Book Depository, is that right?
Mr. Smith: I was checking all the bushes and I checked all the cars in the parking lot.

Smith was working on the corner of Elm and Houston. Immediately after hearing shots he makes his way down the Elm Street extension and bumps into this 'hysterical' woman. Gloria would have run back up Elm Street to the 'spur' where she runs into Shellley and then across the Elm Street extension to the front steps of the TSBD building. Their paths would have crossed on the extension somewhere in front of the steps. I strongly suspect this 'hysterical' woman is Gloria because she is aware that the President has been shot. After this interaction Smith races up the extension towards the concrete pergola and the railroad yard.
If the woman is Gloria then it is possible to use the film record to establish how quickly Gloria got from her position on Elm Street back to the TSBD building steps.
Below is a still from footage taken by Jimmy Darnell which includes the moment Baker has left his bike and is about to cross the Elm Street extension. In the background, racing up the extension towards the railroad yard, is officer Smith:



At this point, Smith has already had his interaction with Gloria and is heading up the extension. If it can be established how many seconds after the shooting this moment is, it can be established how quickly Gloria got back to the steps. This is important because by the time this still is taken, Gloria has already had her interaction with Shelley as stated in his affidavit.

Just because it is theoretically possible to have sprinted over and then back and maybe somehow make this timeline work because of an unrealistic sprint down the stairs by Adams and Styles does not make it a fact. The rest of their travels tell a different story. This Shelley and Lovelady running to stand by the elevator makes no sense at all.

[Dan O'meara]

I've asked you what key evidence convinces you Adams and Styles did not leave straight away and you come up with this vague, meaningless statement.

You know what the police at the scene stated. You know how it relates to Adams and Styles travels. If you don’t want to believe what the police stated and then confirmed by Adams and Styles, then don’t, but do not pretend the statements do not exist.

 How can you even begin to believe that Shelley and Lovelady would walk away from the TSBD and then turn around and sprint back, that is truly unbelievable and then post it like it really could have happened?

This is confirmed by Garner, the Dillard pic and the Stroud document

Point out the confirmation. Garner was at her desk and then joined them later, if anything it shows they left later than what you are portraying. The Dillard pic does not show anything but what you want to believe. The Stroud document is Garners recollection.


Why they forget to mention they were hanging around the railroad yard watching what was going on? Why it slipped their mind to mention they had re-entered the TSBD building through the west door?

Did you not realize everyone’s WC statements are a great deal more detailed than the affidavits and why would that be? I will bet it was because people are asking for more detail based on the questions that arose from knowledge of the assassination. Only you seem to realize what was important at the time and what people should have known was important. Of all things, Adams was surprised the shots came from the building. Both Adams and Styles felt it was important to relate the cop in the back telling them to return to the front but you blow that off because it does not fit the immediate departure scenario you have been pushing.

You have made this mountain out of a mole hill based solely on what you want to portray and completely failed to consider the most obvious facts. Where is the HSCA investigation into this great mystery and what did they conclude about Adams and Styles travels?

You know what the police at the scene stated. You know how it relates to Adams and Styles travels.

The thing is, Jack, I have you trapped now,
I've read your earlier posts on this matter and I've read through what Sawyer, Harkness and Barnett have to say.'
There is not a single comment by anyone that supports Adams waiting for five minutes before racing downstairs.
There is not a single comment that undermines what the physical, photographic and testimonial evidence is telling us - Adams set off downstairs within seconds of the last shot.

I've asked you to put forward the exact evidence that convinces you Adams waited for five minutes before coming downstairs.
I've asked you twice but all I get is vague comments about what Sawyer, Harkness and Barnett have to say .
But you never say exactly what it is that refutes the argument that Adams raced downstairs within seconds of the last shot.
So, I'm asking you a third time - what is this evidence and how does it refute the argument that Adams came down within seconds?

I know you can't answer this because I know that this evidence does not exist.
But like a good Nutter you won't be able to hold your hands up and say you're wrong.
Let's see how you try to squirm out of this one. You should do what Tricky Dicky did and just quietly disappear.

[Jack Nessan]

You know what the police at the scene stated. You know how it relates to Adams and Styles travels.

The thing is, Jack, I have you trapped now,
I've read your earlier posts on this matter and I've read through what Sawyer, Harkness and Barnett have to say.'
There is not a single comment by anyone that supports Adams waiting for five minutes before racing downstairs.
There is not a single comment that undermines what the physical, photographic and testimonial evidence is telling us - Adams set off downstairs within seconds of the last shot.

I've asked you to put forward the exact evidence that convinces you Adams waited for five minutes before coming downstairs.
I've asked you twice but all I get is vague comments about what Sawyer, Harkness and Barnett have to say .
But you never say exactly what it is that refutes the argument that Adams raced downstairs within seconds of the last shot.
So, I'm asking you a third time - what is this evidence and how does it refute the argument that Adams came down within seconds?

I know you can't answer this because I know that this evidence does not exist.
But like a good Nutter you won't be able to hold your hands up and say you're wrong.
Let's see how you try to squirm out of this one. You should do what Tricky Dicky did and just quietly disappear.

I've read your earlier posts on this matter and I've read through what Sawyer, Harkness and Barnett have to say.'

Read them again.

[Dan O'meara]

Just because it is theoretically possible to have sprinted over and then back and maybe somehow make this timeline work because of an unrealistic sprint down the stairs by Adams and Styles does not make it a fact. The rest of their travels tell a different story. This Shelley and Lovelady running to stand by the elevator makes no sense at all.

With the exception of the lies told by Shelley and Lovelady, all the available evidence points to Adams and Styles racing downstairs within seconds of the assassination. There is zero evidence disagreeing with this.
When she gets to the first floor, 35-45 seconds after the last shot, Adams sees Shelley and Lovelady. She reports this in her WC testimony and she reiterates in this "lost interview" [I'm assuming you've listened to the interview that is the subject of this thread].
She has no reason to lie. She could hardly be a more trustworthy character.
In my last few posts I am in the process of demonstrating that the sequence of events that are the consequences of Adams witnessing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor are feasible - Adams and Styles make it down to the first floor within 35-45 seconds. Shelley and Lovelady make it from their positions outside to the back of the first floor in this same time. Baker and Truly arrive at the same location at the same time.
[You seem to think Adams and Styles making it downstairs in 35-45 seconds is "unrealistic". As with everything else, you are wrong. It's perfectly realistic.]

Crying that it "makes no sense at all" is utterly meaningless. It happened.
Why did Shelley and Lovelady race towards the back of the first floor immediately after the last shot?
Why did they lie about their movements to the FBI and the Warren Commission?

[Dan O'meara]

I've read your earlier posts on this matter and I've read through what Sawyer, Harkness and Barnett have to say.'

Read them again.

No need.
There's nothing in them.
If you think there is let's hear it.
FOR THE FOURTH TIME OF ASKING, PRESENT YOUR EVIDENCE!

[Jack Nessan]

With the exception of the lies told by Shelley and Lovelady, all the available evidence points to Adams and Styles racing downstairs within seconds of the assassination. There is zero evidence disagreeing with this.
When she gets to the first floor, 35-45 seconds after the last shot, Adams sees Shelley and Lovelady. She reports this in her WC testimony and she reiterates in this "lost interview" [I'm assuming you've listened to the interview that is the subject of this thread].
She has no reason to lie. She could hardly be a more trustworthy character.
In my last few posts I am in the process of demonstrating that the sequence of events that are the consequences of Adams witnessing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor are feasible - Adams and Styles make it down to the first floor within 35-45 seconds. Shelley and Lovelady make it from their positions outside to the back of the first floor in this same time. Baker and Truly arrive at the same location at the same time.
[You seem to think Adams and Styles making it downstairs in 35-45 seconds is "unrealistic". As with everything else, you are wrong. It's perfectly realistic.]

Crying that it "makes no sense at all" is utterly meaningless. It happened.
Why did Shelley and Lovelady race towards the back of the first floor immediately after the last shot?
Why did they lie about their movements to the FBI and the Warren Commission?

I fail to see how quoting the recanting’s of Adams and Styles somehow proved something. Their interactions with other witnesses do prove something. Unfortunately, it is not an early departure.