Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview

[Martin Weidmann]

I guess we are done. They have been posted and you also said you read the statements of Harkness, Sawyer, and Barnett and they hold no value for you. Are you not telling the truth about having read the statements?

Why waste the time? They are just time stamps that refute Adams and Styles. After viewing what you perceive to be evidence you would think something tangible and real would be of interest. I guess not.

Nessan is running away, as fast as he can..... Hiliarious and exactly as expected.

There is nothing in the statements of Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett that supports his pathetic false claim that Adams and Styles stayed on the 4th floor for several minutes.

And Nessan knows it! If there was anything in those statements he could use to his benefit, Nessan would have pointed it out. The fact that he is refusing to do so is the best confirmation of the fact that he's full of hot air!

There is no way to have a rational conversation with this clown.

[Dan O'meara]

I guess we are done. They have been posted and you also said you read the statements of Harkness, Sawyer, and Barnett and they hold no value for you. Are you not telling the truth about having read the statements?

Why waste the time? They are just time stamps that refute Adams and Styles. After viewing what you perceive to be evidence you would think something tangible and real would be of interest. I guess not.

"I guess we are done."

You were "done" about 25 posts ago when I asked this question:

"And while you're at it - other than the lies of Shelley and Lovelady, what is the key evidence that convinces you Adams did not race down the stairs seconds after the shooting?"

A seemingly straightforward question to answer.
You were arguing so hard that Adams and Styles waited for four or five minutes before racing down to the first floor, it was as if you had compelling evidence to convince you this was the case.
And I simply asked for you to produce your best evidence for this.
To be honest, though, it was a trap.
I knew, for a fact, that you didn't have any such evidence and that your silly belief was based solely on the lies of Shelley and Lovelady.
I also knew you had one of two choices to make - either do a 'Tricky Dicky' and silently disappear or try to bluff your way through.
You never had the option of producing the evidence to support your argument because this evidence doesn't exist.

It's been quite funny watching you stumbling along, trying to make it look like you knew what you were talking about. It didn't help your case that you thought the Darnell footage actually showed Baker racing up the steps and entering the building or that you didn't know who Gloria Calvery was. It really showed up how ignorant you are regarding the basics of this case. It was really funny when you tried to introduce Adams and Styles as witnesses who supported the argument against their own timeline!!

Six times you've been asked to produce this evidence and each time you've made yourself look very foolish indeed.
But now we come to the final destination of the true Nutter...out-and-out lying.
It's a pity, because this is no longer amusing.

"They are just time stamps that refute Adams and Styles."

And here we have the lie.
Doubtless this is a lie you will wheel out again and again, just like Tricky and his 
The good thing is that the forum is a written record of these lies and it can always be held against you.

Just to be clear, Jack's Lie isn't that Vicki waited for four or five minutes before racing down to the first floor.
This is a Warren Commission Lie and, like a good little Nutter, Jack just regurgitates what the WC tells him to regurgitate.
On the 20th March 1964, Baker and Truly took part in time trials which established how quickly both men took to get up to the second floor lunchroom after the assassination. The first time was around 90 seconds, the second time 75 seconds.
Five days later both men testify before the WC and talk about the time trials. So the times taken by Truly and Baker to get inside the TSBD building and up to the second floor are firmly established by this point.
On the 7th April the testimonies of Adams, Lovelady and Shelley are taken. Adams goes first, telling the Commission she raced down the stairs to the first floor and was there in 30-60 seconds and saw Lovelady and Shelley there. There is no contradiction between her testimony and the Truly/Baker time trials - the reason she didn't see them and they didn't see her is that she was already out the back door before Truly and Baker got to the elevators.
Then come the testimonies of, first Lovelady, then Shelley, during which both men tell exactly the same lie which completely contradicts the Truly/Baker time trials and the testimony of Adams.
Both men testify to the effect that Truly and Baker were still outside the TSBD building at least three minutes after the assassination. This completely contradicts the time trials. The timings for Baker and Truly entering the TSBD building have already been firmly established. Now both Lovelady and Shelley are more or less testifying that Baker and Truly were lying and that the whole time trial was a sham. And it's not just one of them telling this lie...it is both of them. It is an organised and co-ordinated Lie.
I'm not sure if the Commission was aware of the Darnell footage at the time of the testimonies of Lovelady and Shelley. Film evidence proving the lies of these men.
Unbelievably, the Commission never questions these lies. The lies are allowed to stand, unchallenged.
Even more unbelievably, when it comes to offer it's final version of events on the day of the assassination, the Commission somehow accepts the results of the time trials (contradicting the "3 minute" lie of Shelley and Lovelady), but they also use the testimony of these proven liars to undermine the testimony of Adams!!This is how they come up with their ridiculous claim that it took Adams five minutes to get down to the first floor. A 'conclusion' all Nutters happily swallow down without question.
But this is not Jack's Lie.
Jack's Lie is that the testimonial evidence of Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett refutes the timeline of Adams - that she left the fourth floor within seconds of the last shot.
Jack has been asked over and over and over again to provide this evidence, which he has failed to do. He has failed to do this because this evidence does not exist. And Jack knows it doesn't exist. Yet he still makes the claim that Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett provide "time stamps that refute Adams and Styles."

This is a deliberate falsehood....a lie.

Because Jack is a good little Nutter he swallows down the Commission's lies without question and will defend these lies to the point where he himself is lying.
He believes it takes Adams five minutes to get downstairs because that is what the WC tells him to believe.
Martin pointed out to him that if it was indeed the case that Adams took five minutes to leave, she would not have been able to make it back inside the front door by the time the front entrance was locked down.
Jack used the testimonies of Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett to argue that Adams could still have made it back inside the building before the front entrance was locked down. The testimonial evidence of Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett relates solely to when the front entrance was locked down. It has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Adams left the fourth floor within seconds of the shooting. This testimonial evidence cannot be used to refute this aspect of Adams' testimony.
Yet Jack will carry on telling this Lie because he is a good little Nutter.

I would advise him to do a 'Tricky Dicky' and quietly disappear.

[Richard Smith]

Why is the world being deprived of all these valuable insights on the JFK assassination? Surely those who have posted on this thread endlessly to the tune of tens of thousands of words on the topic have the confidence to share their "evidence" with the DPD.  Right?  They are not just caught up in some type of compulsion disorder that they can exercise under cover of the Internet.  Right?  I anxiously await the DPD's assessment of this evidence.   

[Dan O'meara]

There are clear ramifications to Vicki witnessing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor within seconds of the assassination and, in between dealing with Jack's nonsense, I've been exploring these ramifications; using physical, film, photographic and testimonial evidence to test whether or not the version of events that are a consequence of Vicki's testimony, are actually feasible.
I've demonstrated that she could have been down on the first floor around 35 seconds after the headshot and that she could've been out the back door before Truly and Baker arrived on the scene.
I also started looking into a whether or not it was feasible for Shelley and Lovelady to have made it to the location on the first floor that Vicki observed both men, somewhere between 35 and 45 seconds after the assassination. Part of the evidence I presented was the testimony of DPD officer Joe Marshall Smith who made his way down the Elm Street extension immediately after the shots were fired and bumped into an 'hysterical' woman who told him about the shots being fired at the President. I argued that this woman was Gloria Calvery, who crossed paths with Smith as she raced back to the TSBD building.
This would lead to the following set of events:
1] The headshot.
2] Gloria runs back up Elm Street towards the TSBD building.
3] She runs into Shelley at the concrete 'spur' where the traffic light is situated.
4] She carries on to the TSBD building and runs into officer Smith.
5] She tells Smith about the shooting and carries on to the front steps followed by Shelley
6] Smith runs along the extension to where Gloria says the shots were coming from
7] At the same time Gloria and Shelley arrive back at the front steps.
8] A distressed Gloria tells Lovelady and others stood on the steps about the shooting.

I posted the pic below as part of the evidence I was presenting and would like to examine the significance of this image.
It is a still from the Darnell footage which shows Baker after he has parked his bike and is making his way towards the TSBD building. In the background is officer Joe Marshall Smith who is running up the Elm Street extension:



Let's say this image is taken 20 seconds after the last shot.
In the list above, this image represents number 6] - Smith running along the extension to where Gloria said the shots were coming from.
It means that before this image was taken the headshot had occurred, Gloria had run back up Elm Street, she had run into Shelley at the 'spur' and had already told Smith about the shooting.
It also means that, if we could see the front steps at this moment, we would see Calvery at the steps telling Lovelady and the others about the shooting. We would see Shelley returning to the steps. We would see Frazier stood at the stop of the steps, overhearing the "hollering" of Gloria as she told everyone about the shooting.
Luckily, we can see the front steps as the footage rolls on. The still below is a close crop from Darnell taken about 4 seconds after the image above. In it we can see Baker, who has just passed Truly, and is about to reach the foot of the front steps:

photo link

Seconds after this image is taken Baker forces his way past people on the steps and enters the front lobby. Truly turns and follows Baker up the steps and into the lobby. Does this image show the moment Gloria tells Lovelady and others about the shooting? Does it show Shelley returning to the steps? Does it show Frazier listening on?
If we look halfway down on the west side of the steps we can see the backs of two women who are facing towards the front entrance. Both are wearing headscarves, one black and one white. The woman in the white headscarf is very distinctive as she is wearing a white dress as well. When we see the actual footage it is clear that they have their arms linked. The woman in white is making her way up the steps but she has to stop because the woman in the black headscarf appears to be talking to a male figure stood just in front of her. The male figure appears to be a step or two above Black Headscarf, and directly facing her. He appears to be white and bald.
If the timings I've discussed are correct, this must be the moment Gloria [Black Headscarf] tells Lovelady [Bald Man] and other people on the steps about the shooting. At the top of the steps, half covered in shadow, is the well attested to figure of Buell Frazier as he listens on to the distressed Gloria.
Bill Shelley was known to be wearing a loose-fitting, baggy black (or darkly coloured) suit. At the bottom of the steps we can see such a figure. In the actual footage we first see this man from behind as he takes a step or two towards the front entrance before he turns to face the direction Baker is approaching from. This must be Shelley as he reaches the steps after following Gloria back from the 'spur'.



Shelley and Lovelady must follow Baker into the front lobby. While he is trying to find out how to get up the building and having his interaction with Truly, Shelley and Lovelady make their way towards the back of the first floor where they are spotted by Adams. Seconds later Truly and Baker arrive. Adams and Styles have already left through the back door and Baker observes two white men (who can only be Shelley and Lovelady) at the back of the first floor.

[Jack Nessan]

"I guess we are done."

You were "done" about 25 posts ago when I asked this question:

"And while you're at it - other than the lies of Shelley and Lovelady, what is the key evidence that convinces you Adams did not race down the stairs seconds after the shooting?"

A seemingly straightforward question to answer.
You were arguing so hard that Adams and Styles waited for four or five minutes before racing down to the first floor, it was as if you had compelling evidence to convince you this was the case.
And I simply asked for you to produce your best evidence for this.
To be honest, though, it was a trap.
I knew, for a fact, that you didn't have any such evidence and that your silly belief was based solely on the lies of Shelley and Lovelady.
I also knew you had one of two choices to make - either do a 'Tricky Dicky' and silently disappear or try to bluff your way through.
You never had the option of producing the evidence to support your argument because this evidence doesn't exist.

It's been quite funny watching you stumbling along, trying to make it look like you knew what you were talking about. It didn't help your case that you thought the Darnell footage actually showed Baker racing up the steps and entering the building or that you didn't know who Gloria Calvery was. It really showed up how ignorant you are regarding the basics of this case. It was really funny when you tried to introduce Adams and Styles as witnesses who supported the argument against their own timeline!!

Six times you've been asked to produce this evidence and each time you've made yourself look very foolish indeed.
But now we come to the final destination of the true Nutter...out-and-out lying.
It's a pity, because this is no longer amusing.

"They are just time stamps that refute Adams and Styles."

And here we have the lie.
Doubtless this is a lie you will wheel out again and again, just like Tricky and his 
The good thing is that the forum is a written record of these lies and it can always be held against you.

Just to be clear, Jack's Lie isn't that Vicki waited for four or five minutes before racing down to the first floor.
This is a Warren Commission Lie and, like a good little Nutter, Jack just regurgitates what the WC tells him to regurgitate.
On the 20th March 1964, Baker and Truly took part in time trials which established how quickly both men took to get up to the second floor lunchroom after the assassination. The first time was around 90 seconds, the second time 75 seconds.
Five days later both men testify before the WC and talk about the time trials. So the times taken by Truly and Baker to get inside the TSBD building and up to the second floor are firmly established by this point.
On the 7th April the testimonies of Adams, Lovelady and Shelley are taken. Adams goes first, telling the Commission she raced down the stairs to the first floor and was there in 30-60 seconds and saw Lovelady and Shelley there. There is no contradiction between her testimony and the Truly/Baker time trials - the reason she didn't see them and they didn't see her is that she was already out the back door before Truly and Baker got to the elevators.
Then come the testimonies of, first Lovelady, then Shelley, during which both men tell exactly the same lie which completely contradicts the Truly/Baker time trials and the testimony of Adams.
Both men testify to the effect that Truly and Baker were still outside the TSBD building at least three minutes after the assassination. This completely contradicts the time trials. The timings for Baker and Truly entering the TSBD building have already been firmly established. Now both Lovelady and Shelley are more or less testifying that Baker and Truly were lying and that the whole time trial was a sham. And it's not just one of them telling this lie...it is both of them. It is an organised and co-ordinated Lie.
I'm not sure if the Commission was aware of the Darnell footage at the time of the testimonies of Lovelady and Shelley. Film evidence proving the lies of these men.
Unbelievably, the Commission never questions these lies. The lies are allowed to stand, unchallenged.
Even more unbelievably, when it comes to offer it's final version of events on the day of the assassination, the Commission somehow accepts the results of the time trials (contradicting the "3 minute" lie of Shelley and Lovelady), but they also use the testimony of these proven liars to undermine the testimony of Adams!!This is how they come up with their ridiculous claim that it took Adams five minutes to get down to the first floor. A 'conclusion' all Nutters happily swallow down without question.
But this is not Jack's Lie.
Jack's Lie is that the testimonial evidence of Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett refutes the timeline of Adams - that she left the fourth floor within seconds of the last shot.
Jack has been asked over and over and over again to provide this evidence, which he has failed to do. He has failed to do this because this evidence does not exist. And Jack knows it doesn't exist. Yet he still makes the claim that Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett provide "time stamps that refute Adams and Styles."

This is a deliberate falsehood....a lie.

Because Jack is a good little Nutter he swallows down the Commission's lies without question and will defend these lies to the point where he himself is lying.
He believes it takes Adams five minutes to get downstairs because that is what the WC tells him to believe.
Martin pointed out to him that if it was indeed the case that Adams took five minutes to leave, she would not have been able to make it back inside the front door by the time the front entrance was locked down.
Jack used the testimonies of Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett to argue that Adams could still have made it back inside the building before the front entrance was locked down. The testimonial evidence of Harkness, Sawyer and Barnett relates solely to when the front entrance was locked down. It has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Adams left the fourth floor within seconds of the shooting. This testimonial evidence cannot be used to refute this aspect of Adams' testimony.
Yet Jack will carry on telling this Lie because he is a good little Nutter.

I would advise him to do a 'Tricky Dicky' and quietly disappear.

 

You were "done" about 25 posts ago when I asked this question:
 
"And while you're at it - other than the lies of Shelley and Lovelady, what is the key evidence that convinces you Adams did not race down the stairs seconds after the shooting

Maybe you did not know this but your own personal Mini-me, Martin, had his own fantasy timeline complete with an imaginary cop and his personal made-up timelines. Apparently, you did not actually read the testimonies of Harkness, Sawyer, and Barnett. Nor just look back a few pages to what your Mini-me was posting. If it makes sense to you that the girls waited somewhere in the building for 4 or 5 minutes instead of watching the goings on from the window before departing, then believe that.

It makes absolutely no difference to me. What is known is they did not encounter Shelley and Lovelady until about 12:35, encountered the Police officer in the back of the building until 12:36, and returned to the front and entered the building until 12:37. All based on time stamps. Nothing you have posted changes any of the known information. Not the unexplained mad dash of Shelley and Lovelady or the useless no evidence picture have cast any doubt.

Victoria Adams FBI 11/24   

“They had not gone far until they were stopped by a police officer, who instructed them to return to the building.

Sandra Styles FBI 3/19

“We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area. I then re-entered the building....

This encounter with the police officer was known to take place at 12:36 based on the testimony of Sgt Harkness as to when the back was sealed off.
-------------------------------------

Martin, like you, thinks creating a once upon a time scenario somehow makes the whole made up storyline more believable. It is not an exercise, it is mindless ramblings trying to reinvent the story.

Martin Weidmann's Timeline 

For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"
 
12.30.00 Last shot
 
12.30.30 "Oswald" arrives at the stairs on the 6th floor
              Adams and Styles arrive at the stairs on the 4th floor. Dorothy Garner sees them go down the stairs
              Officer Baker arrives at the front entrance (seen by Lovelady) and meets Truly, after just parking his bike
             
              Shelley and Lovelady are in front of the main entrance of the building. Gloria Calvary tells them the President has been shot.
              They first go to the little traffic island in front of the TSBD and then decide to go, down the dead end street in front of the TSBD,
              towards the railroad yard
              Lovelady and Shelley see Truly and Baker entering the building
 
Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?
 
Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
 
Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.             
 
12:31.00 "Oswald" arrives at the 2nd floor and goes into the lunchroom after decending 4 flights of stairs
              Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, after decending 3 flights of stairs, and leave the building through the loading door
              just left of the stairs     
              Truly and Baker, somewhat delayed by trying to call the east elevator down, pass the elevator block on the first floor and
              run towards the stairs, just missing the women
 
This timeline demonstrates that if "Oswald" and Adams & Styles both arrive at the stairs 30 seconds after the last shot and they descent the stairs at roughly the same speed, they could in theory have been on the stairs at the same time, with "Oswald" arriving on the 2nd floor around the same time Adams & Styles arrived on the 1st floor.
 
12:31.15 Baker arrives on the 2nd floor (Truly is already climbing the stairs to the 3rd floor) and meets Oswald in the lunchroom
              Adams and Styles arrive at the North East side of the loading dock and go down the stairs
 
12:31.30 Adams and Styles have gone round the most Northern point of the loading dock and start running toward the railroad yard
         
12.33.00 Adams and Styles encounter a police officer, somewhere near the North Western corner of the TSBD, and are told to
              go back to the building. The women walk along side the railway track, west of the TSBD and it's warehouse extension,
              towards the parallel road in the front of the building.
              Shelley and Lovelady are in that same location, roughly where the parallel road dead ends in a parking lot
 
Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---
Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
           
Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY - Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - And enter from the rear?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; sure did.
 
Mr. BALL - What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
 
12.34.00 Adams and Styles arrive at the road that runs parallel to the TSBD, turn left and walk toward the main entrance.
 
12.35.00 After walking the distance from the warehouse building next to the TSBD, Adams and Styles arrive at the
              front entrance of the building. Styles enters the building straight away, but Adams stays behind to talk to some co-workers.
              The building is not yet sealed off.
 
12.36.00 Adams hears a radio report about the shots having been fired from the TSBD building. She enters the TSBD through the front
              entrance. She persuades the police officer who sealed of the main entrance to let her in. She takes the stairs to the 2nd floor,
              in the hall in the South East corner of the building. She then walks through the office space to the North West corner
              (where the 2nd floor lunchroom is) and takes the freight elevator to the 4th floor with two men she believes to be police
              officers or secret service.
             
              Shelley and Lovelady enter the building and arrive at the first floor where Lovelady - according to his testimony - sees a girl
 
Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
 
             Shelley only saw Eddie Piper
 
Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.
 
12.37.00 Sgt Harkness seals off the building at the building
 
The times are approximations, but the timeline works perfectly and includes all the known information without any witness having to lie.
 

Martin: “Styles re-entered the TSBD at the front entrance before it was sealed off. If it was sealed of at 12:37, it means that Styles entered the building prior to 12:37.”
It means Styles reentered the building after being told by the officer in the back to return to the front

 Martin: “was photographed standing next to Sawyer's car and re-entered the building through the front door before it was locked down. That must have happened between 12:35 and 12:37.”

Unbelievable, Martin just makes up his own crap and gives it his own priority.
 

 ---------------------------------------------------------

THEN:2020
 
Martin Weidmann Timeline----12.33.00 Adams and Styles encounter a police officer, somewhere near the North Western corner of the TSBD, and are told to go back to the building. The women walk along side the railway track, west of the TSBD and it's warehouse extension, towards the parallel road in the front of the building.
 
It is known that the building was sealed off at 12:36, not 12:33.  12:33 is a fantasy time.
 
NOW: 2024
 
MW-- “BS. The back of the building wasn't locked down until 12:36. There were no officers stationed behind the building before that. In the interview, Vickie Adams states that when she left the building, she saw an officer standing near Houston street talking to a man in plain clothes, but they were not watching the building and didn't see her.”
 
MW--"The officer(s) that told Adams and Styles to return to the building was at the west side of the building where Lovelady saw them;”
 
MW--“When you start with a wrong assumption you will get a wrong answer. In this case the wrong assumption is that the police officer who told Adams to go back in the building was one of the officers that was sealing off the building.
 
HUH? So what happened to the officer, now according to you. just wandering around and stopping them at the North West corner of the building?  Really, an officer telling them to go back into the building is passing the time of day with friendly conversation but apparently not “sealing off the building.”  Which Sgt Harkness stated took place at 12:36. The only people this officer is known to have told is Adams and Styles?
 

Mr. HARKNESS - "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Mr. BELIN - All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Had the building been sealed off at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS - Not to my knowledge. There were several officers around it, but I don't know whether it had been sealed off or not.
Mr. BELIN - In the process of sealing off the building, what did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS - Asked for a squad.
Mr. BELIN - How long did it take you after that to have the back part sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - The guard was arriving by the time I got off my motorcycle. There was already additional squads en route.
Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Mr. BELIN - You are talking about the back part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

 

Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off. There were officers all around the building. To the best of my recollection, there was no officer actually stationed on the front door, at the front door. There was some on the sidewalk in front of the front door, and also, as far as I know, had no instructions been issued to anyone to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. So yours would have been the first instructions to stop traffic from coming in and out of the front door, am I correct in that?
 

Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off. There were officers all around the building. To the best of my recollection, there was no officer actually stationed on the front door, at the front door. There was some on the sidewalk in front of the front door, and also, as far as I know, had no instructions been issued to anyone to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. So yours would have been the first instructions to stop traffic from coming in and out of the front door, am I correct in that?

 

 Officer Barnett is more of the same look it up for yourself for once.

[Dan O'meara]

Why is the world being deprived of all these valuable insights on the JFK assassination? Surely those who have posted on this thread endlessly to the tune of tens of thousands of words on the topic have the confidence to share their "evidence" with the DPD.  Right?  They are not just caught up in some type of compulsion disorder that they can exercise under cover of the Internet.  Right?  I anxiously await the DPD's assessment of this evidence.

It's a pity you don't have the brains to assess the evidence yourself.
Your pathetic whining about those researching certain aspects of this case is as meaningless as your 'contribution' in general.
If you had the courage of your own convictions you'd genuinely participate in the debate - analyse and critique.
Instead it's just a cowardly whining from the side-lines and bare-faced lies.
You're an utter disgrace as a 'researcher' and it has been a pleasure making you look like a complete idiot every time you dare to venture onto any threads I'm participating in.
The cowardly way you disappeared from the debate earlier in this thread speaks volumes. Once again, crushed in front of the forum and back under your rock.
You have no contribution to make, so don't bother trying to make any.

[Jack Nessan]

It's a pity you don't have the brains to assess the evidence yourself.
Your pathetic whining about those researching certain aspects of this case is as meaningless as your 'contribution' in general.
If you had the courage of your own convictions you'd genuinely participate in the debate - analyse and critique.
Instead it's just a cowardly whining from the side-lines and bare-faced lies.
You're an utter disgrace as a 'researcher' and it has been a pleasure making you look like a complete idiot every time you dare to venture onto any threads I'm participating in.
The cowardly way you disappeared from the debate earlier in this thread speaks volumes. Once again, crushed in front of the forum and back under your rock.
You have no contribution to make, so don't bother trying to make any.

You are calling the what you have presented research and contribution? You can't even present an explanation of Styles and Adams beyond the elevator on floor one. Your whole thought about their travels ends there.

[Dan O'meara]

You were "done" about 25 posts ago when I asked this question:
 
"And while you're at it - other than the lies of Shelley and Lovelady, what is the key evidence that convinces you Adams did not race down the stairs seconds after the shooting

Maybe you did not know this but your own personal Mini-me, Martin, had his own fantasy timeline complete with an imaginary cop and his personal made-up timelines. Apparently, you did not actually read the testimonies of Harkness, Sawyer, and Barnett. Nor just look back a few pages to what your Mini-me was posting. If it makes sense to you that the girls waited somewhere in the building for 4 or 5 minutes instead of watching the goings on from the window before departing, then believe that.

It makes absolutely no difference to me. What is known is they did not encounter Shelley and Lovelady until about 12:35, encountered the Police officer in the back of the building until 12:36, and returned to the front and entered the building until 12:37. All based on time stamps. Nothing you have posted changes any of the known information. Not the unexplained mad dash of Shelley and Lovelady or the useless no evidence picture have cast any doubt.

Victoria Adams FBI 11/24   

“They had not gone far until they were stopped by a police officer, who instructed them to return to the building.

Sandra Styles FBI 3/19

“We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area. I then re-entered the building....

This encounter with the police officer was known to take place at 12:36 based on the testimony of Sgt Harkness as to when the back was sealed off.
-------------------------------------

Martin, like you, thinks creating a once upon a time scenario somehow makes the whole made up storyline more believable. It is not an exercise, it is mindless ramblings trying to reinvent the story.

Martin Weidmann's Timeline 

For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"
 
12.30.00 Last shot
 
12.30.30 "Oswald" arrives at the stairs on the 6th floor
              Adams and Styles arrive at the stairs on the 4th floor. Dorothy Garner sees them go down the stairs
              Officer Baker arrives at the front entrance (seen by Lovelady) and meets Truly, after just parking his bike
             
              Shelley and Lovelady are in front of the main entrance of the building. Gloria Calvary tells them the President has been shot.
              They first go to the little traffic island in front of the TSBD and then decide to go, down the dead end street in front of the TSBD,
              towards the railroad yard
              Lovelady and Shelley see Truly and Baker entering the building
 
Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?
 
Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
 
Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.             
 
12:31.00 "Oswald" arrives at the 2nd floor and goes into the lunchroom after decending 4 flights of stairs
              Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, after decending 3 flights of stairs, and leave the building through the loading door
              just left of the stairs     
              Truly and Baker, somewhat delayed by trying to call the east elevator down, pass the elevator block on the first floor and
              run towards the stairs, just missing the women
 
This timeline demonstrates that if "Oswald" and Adams & Styles both arrive at the stairs 30 seconds after the last shot and they descent the stairs at roughly the same speed, they could in theory have been on the stairs at the same time, with "Oswald" arriving on the 2nd floor around the same time Adams & Styles arrived on the 1st floor.
 
12:31.15 Baker arrives on the 2nd floor (Truly is already climbing the stairs to the 3rd floor) and meets Oswald in the lunchroom
              Adams and Styles arrive at the North East side of the loading dock and go down the stairs
 
12:31.30 Adams and Styles have gone round the most Northern point of the loading dock and start running toward the railroad yard
         
12.33.00 Adams and Styles encounter a police officer, somewhere near the North Western corner of the TSBD, and are told to
              go back to the building. The women walk along side the railway track, west of the TSBD and it's warehouse extension,
              towards the parallel road in the front of the building.
              Shelley and Lovelady are in that same location, roughly where the parallel road dead ends in a parking lot
 
Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---
Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
           
Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY - Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - And enter from the rear?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; sure did.
 
Mr. BALL - What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
 
12.34.00 Adams and Styles arrive at the road that runs parallel to the TSBD, turn left and walk toward the main entrance.
 
12.35.00 After walking the distance from the warehouse building next to the TSBD, Adams and Styles arrive at the
              front entrance of the building. Styles enters the building straight away, but Adams stays behind to talk to some co-workers.
              The building is not yet sealed off.
 
12.36.00 Adams hears a radio report about the shots having been fired from the TSBD building. She enters the TSBD through the front
              entrance. She persuades the police officer who sealed of the main entrance to let her in. She takes the stairs to the 2nd floor,
              in the hall in the South East corner of the building. She then walks through the office space to the North West corner
              (where the 2nd floor lunchroom is) and takes the freight elevator to the 4th floor with two men she believes to be police
              officers or secret service.
             
              Shelley and Lovelady enter the building and arrive at the first floor where Lovelady - according to his testimony - sees a girl
 
Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
 
             Shelley only saw Eddie Piper
 
Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.
 
12.37.00 Sgt Harkness seals off the building at the building
 
The times are approximations, but the timeline works perfectly and includes all the known information without any witness having to lie.
 

Martin: “Styles re-entered the TSBD at the front entrance before it was sealed off. If it was sealed of at 12:37, it means that Styles entered the building prior to 12:37.”
It means Styles reentered the building after being told by the officer in the back to return to the front

 Martin: “was photographed standing next to Sawyer's car and re-entered the building through the front door before it was locked down. That must have happened between 12:35 and 12:37.”

Unbelievable, Martin just makes up his own crap and gives it his own priority.
 

 ---------------------------------------------------------

THEN:2020
 
Martin Weidmann Timeline----12.33.00 Adams and Styles encounter a police officer, somewhere near the North Western corner of the TSBD, and are told to go back to the building. The women walk along side the railway track, west of the TSBD and it's warehouse extension, towards the parallel road in the front of the building.
 
It is known that the building was sealed off at 12:36, not 12:33.  12:33 is a fantasy time.
 
NOW: 2024
 
MW-- “BS. The back of the building wasn't locked down until 12:36. There were no officers stationed behind the building before that. In the interview, Vickie Adams states that when she left the building, she saw an officer standing near Houston street talking to a man in plain clothes, but they were not watching the building and didn't see her.”
 
MW--"The officer(s) that told Adams and Styles to return to the building was at the west side of the building where Lovelady saw them;”
 
MW--“When you start with a wrong assumption you will get a wrong answer. In this case the wrong assumption is that the police officer who told Adams to go back in the building was one of the officers that was sealing off the building.
 
HUH? So what happened to the officer, now according to you. just wandering around and stopping them at the North West corner of the building?  Really, an officer telling them to go back into the building is passing the time of day with friendly conversation but apparently not “sealing off the building.”  Which Sgt Harkness stated took place at 12:36. The only people this officer is known to have told is Adams and Styles?
 

Mr. HARKNESS - "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Mr. BELIN - All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Had the building been sealed off at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS - Not to my knowledge. There were several officers around it, but I don't know whether it had been sealed off or not.
Mr. BELIN - In the process of sealing off the building, what did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS - Asked for a squad.
Mr. BELIN - How long did it take you after that to have the back part sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - The guard was arriving by the time I got off my motorcycle. There was already additional squads en route.
Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Mr. BELIN - You are talking about the back part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

 

Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off. There were officers all around the building. To the best of my recollection, there was no officer actually stationed on the front door, at the front door. There was some on the sidewalk in front of the front door, and also, as far as I know, had no instructions been issued to anyone to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. So yours would have been the first instructions to stop traffic from coming in and out of the front door, am I correct in that?
 

Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then you got down and what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. I asked the Sergeant to doublecheck the security around the building, and then I took two patrolmen and stationed them at the front door and told them, with instructions not to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. Now up to the time you did this, had anyone else sealed off the building, that you know of?
Mr. SAWYER. When I arrived, the sergeant told me he had the building sealed off. There were officers all around the building. To the best of my recollection, there was no officer actually stationed on the front door, at the front door. There was some on the sidewalk in front of the front door, and also, as far as I know, had no instructions been issued to anyone to let anybody in or out.
Mr. BELIN. So yours would have been the first instructions to stop traffic from coming in and out of the front door, am I correct in that?

 

 Officer Barnett is more of the same look it up for yourself for once.

You need to own up to your Lie, Jack.
You can't be taken seriously otherwise.
Your conversation with Martin has absolutely nothing to do with me, with the evidence I've presented or with the arguments I am making.
Introducing your discussion with Martin stinks of desperation.
There is not a single statement by Harkness, Sawyer or Barnett that refutes Adams racing down the stairs seconds after the assassination.
Not a single one.
I'm more familiar with this testimony than you will ever be and there is not a single statement made by any of them that has anything to do with how quickly Adams left the fourth floor.
That is why you have never provided such a statement. It's why you have to lie about it.

If it makes sense to you that the girls waited somewhere in the building for 4 or 5 minutes instead of watching the goings on from the window before departing, then believe that.


Are you having a bit of a senior moment Jack?
Have you forgotten it's you who is saying the girls were hanging around for 4 or 5 minutes, not me!
I'm saying they were out the back door in less than a minute.
Do you remember Jack?
Do you need a nap?

Victoria Adams FBI 11/24   

“They had not gone far until they were stopped by a police officer, who instructed them to return to the building.

Sandra Styles FBI 3/19

“We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area. I then re-entered the building....

This encounter with the police officer was known to take place at 12:36 based on the testimony of Sgt Harkness as to when the back was sealed off.

This is the only thing you've written that comes even close to providing an argument.
When you say the encounter with this officer was known to have taken "place at 12:36 based on the testimony of Sgt Harkness", is this just another of your lies? Or is it just another senior moment? Or is it something you've just made up because it suits you?

As for Barnett, far from supporting your argument, he totally undermines it. After the shots have been fired he makes his way to the back of the building where he sees officers in the railroad yard and "officers down here watching this back door". Why you think there wasn't an officer at that location until 12:36pm is totally baffling. Mind you, a lot of what you think is totally baffling.
And as for your logic that this officer is something to do with the lock down of the building....I don't think "logic" is the right word to use. The point of the lock down is to stop people from entering or leaving the building. Yet here we have an officer who confronts Adams and Styles outside and tells them to get back inside the building!! It's the very opposite of what the lock down is about!
Only you know what you're thinking trying to make this officer part of the lock down. It's another senior moment as far as I'm concerned.

Other than the lies of Shelley and Lovelady you do not have a single scrap of evidence that has Adams and Styles waiting for up to four minutes before racing down to the first floor.
Not a single scrap.
It's disappointing that you are so willing to lie about this.