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Author Topic: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview  (Read 53304 times)

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #424 on: March 14, 2024, 04:08:41 PM »
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Slightly east of the east elevator and as far south as the length of the elevator.
In the diagram below the circle marks this approximate area and the line shows Adams' approximate route.




Are you sure of the route Adams took?

If Adams and Styles took that route, they would have been directly in the line of sight of Truly and Baker as they were running towards the elevator.

It has always been my understanding that Adams and Styles went outside using the big loading door between the stairs and the elevators, which at that time was open.

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #424 on: March 14, 2024, 04:08:41 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #425 on: March 14, 2024, 04:52:01 PM »
Are you sure of the route Adams took?

If Adams and Styles took that route, they would have been directly in the line of sight of Truly and Baker as they were running towards the elevator.

It has always been my understanding that Adams and Styles went outside using the big loading door between the stairs and the elevators, which at that time was open.

I'm pretty sure.
Adams states:

"I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock."

I get the distinct impression she is referring to the door leading directly out onto the Houston Street loading dock ( marked on the diagram) and her encounter with Shelley and Lovelady happens as she is "on the way out to" the Houston Street dock. To me, the phrase "on the way out to" implies there is some distance between the bottom of the stairs and the door she exits through. I also think it makes more sense that this is her route in terms of her interaction with Shelley and Lovelady.

Obviously, Baker and Truly don't see Adams and Styles exiting the first floor and this clearly favours your suggestion of the loading door at the bottom of the stairs. However, if Truly and Baker are still in the lobby or just starting to make their way out of that area into the main body of the first floor, this would explain why they never saw Adams or Styles exiting at the opposite end of the building.
It must also be remembered that there was some kind of momentary hold up as Baker crashed into the back of Truly at the swinging door between the lobby and the main working area.


« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 04:53:31 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #426 on: March 14, 2024, 04:59:44 PM »
Establishing Shelley lied about his movements after the assassination has important ramifications.
It shows he was trying to cover something up and that he was more than willing to lie to the various investigating authorities on multiple occasions.
It also casts huge doubts over other statements made by Shelley which are of huge significance in regard to the aftermath of the assassination.
The first one I'd like to examine is related to Oswald's alibi.

Oswald may have been a lot of things but he was not stupid.
When a person gives an alibi to the police they know they have gone on record and that this is the version of events that will be used against them in a court of law. For anyone accused of a crime, the most important element of their defence is the alibi. They also know that once the alibi is given it will be checked to see how 'cast iron' it is. If someone is giving a false alibi it must be one that is incredibly difficult to verify or one that has been agreed with an accomplice.
Looking through the various notes and reports pertaining to Oswald's interrogation, his alibi has a few different elements.
According to what Oswald reportedly said -
1] He was in the lunch room on the first floor (the Domino Room) when JFK drove by the building.
2] After this he went up to the second floor lunchroom to buy a Coke
3] He bought the Coke and was drinking it when Baker burst in, gun drawn.
4] He went back down to the first floor.
5] He finished his lunch and, possibly while he was finishing it, got together with Bill Shelley.
6] Shelley told him there would be no more work that day and that it was okay for him to take the rest of the day off.
7] Oswald left the building.

Firstly, there is no way to verify that Oswald was in the Domino Room when JFK passed by. Although Oswald does seem to confirm this with his mention of Junior Jarman and, presumably, Hank Norman. The only time he could have seen these two men together on the first floor is when they entered the back door of the TSBD building on their way up to the fifth floor. Because the east elevator wasn't available Jarman and Norman had to walk around the elevators to get the west elevator. Walking around the elevators would have brought them into line of sight for someone sat in the Domino room. This makes Oswald's apparent mention of seeing these men together compelling evidence supporting his assertion he was in the first floor lunchroom at the time JFK went by.
Unfortunately for Oswald, neither Jarman nor Norman saw him so there is no direct alibi.

Secondly, the second floor lunchroom encounter is well attested to and seems to be confirmed by Oswald, Baker and Truly (not to mention Mrs Robert Reid who saw Oswald close to the lunchroom with a Coke in his hand a couple of minutes after the assassination). There is a wrinkle - Oswald appears to make it clear he had already bought his Coke and was sipping it when Baker burst in, something supported by Baker's initial report in which he had written Oswald was already drinking a Coke when the encounter occurred but which was then crudely crossed out. This really buggers up the timeline for Oswald allegedly getting down from the sixth floor to the second floor lunchroom. Whatever the case, there is ample confirmation that Oswald was indeed in the second floor lunchroom seconds after the assassination.

The third element to Oswald's alibi is his interaction with Bill Shelley. Apparently, Oswald credits Bill Shelley with his motive for leaving the building. The importance of this cannot be stressed enough because it is Oswald's choice to leave the TSBD that alerts the authorities to him. It is his decision to 'flee the scene' that puts him well and truly in the spotlight as a prime suspect on the day of the assassination. Even if he actually pulled the trigger, he has no reason to run immediately. He has already encountered the police, seconds after the shooting, four floors below the location of the shooting and has been given a pass. They can't immediately trace the rifle to him, they can't use fingerprint evidence against him on the day. All he has to do is hold his nerve, say he was on the second floor lunchroom all along and skip town later that day. But instead he runs.

So let's imagine that he is the shooter and is trying to come up with a false alibi. One that will stick in a court of law.
Why on earth would he add the detail that he'd talked to Bill Shelley after the lunchroom incident and it was Bill Shelley who recommended he leave for the day? He saw Shelley as he was being taken into the interview and Shelley, who was having his affidavit taken, had to vacate the same room. So Oswald knows that all they have to do is ask Shelley if such a conversation took place. Which they did. And Shelley denied it.

This is the point of what I'm getting at. I may have certain details wrong but the bottom line is that Oswald reportedly included Shelley as part of his alibi.
Why did he do that?
Maybe he just thought that, by some miracle, Shelley would back him up. That, although this incident never happened, Shelley would somehow know, when being questioned, that Oswald was asking him to lie to the police on his behalf and back him up.
Or maybe he did talk to Shelley after the lunchroom incident and Shelley knowingly denied it (due to a lack of imagination, I can't really come up with a third option.)

So, which of these two options makes sense - that Oswald was so utterly stupid as to include Shelley in a false alibi or that Oswald was telling the truth about this chat with Shelley, which is why he felt comfortable telling his interrogators about it?
I would argue it is the second option. Furthermore, it is as if Oswald fully expected Shelley to back him up on this. Why else say it?

So, it's looking like Shelley also lied about this chat with Oswald after the second floor lunchroom incident and before Oswald left the building - a timespan of 3 to 4 minutes after the assassination.

Thoughts?

« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 01:18:10 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #426 on: March 14, 2024, 04:59:44 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #427 on: March 15, 2024, 11:01:28 AM »
A follow up to the last post.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Oswald and Shelley were 'shooting the breeze' after the assassination about the work situation for the rest of the day.
In my opinion Oswald fled the scene, which is indicative of guilt. Once he was outside the TSBD building he was a man on the run and was in the process of heading for the border when he ran into J D Tippit.
I have no reason to doubt Marina's testimony that Oswald confessed to the attempted murder of Walker and that he left behind his wedding band and all the money he had in case of his arrest (something he also did on the day of the assassination).

Oswald was not some 'ordinary Joe' unknowingly caught up in the events of the day. He was up to his eyeballs in what was going on.
His mention of Shelley as an alibi smacks of someone who expects to be backed up by an accomplice.
I don't believe Oswald took the shots that day and any available credible evidence regarding who was on the 6th floor just before, during and after the assassination points away from Oswald.
A good example is that three of the five eye-witnesses who saw a man on the 6th floor around the time of the shooting (Fischer, Roberts and Rowland) describe a man wearing clothes Oswald did not wear to work that day and did not possess.
Once it's not Oswald who took the shots then it's Conspiracy Time.
That is why I find the lies of Shelley and Lovelady so fascinating - anyone lying about their movements after the assassination needs closer scrutiny.
And now we have Shelley throwing Oswald under the bus regarding his alibi.

Why would Oswald mention Shelley as part of his alibi if it was so easily refuted?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 03:56:07 PM by Dan O'meara »

Online Paul Davies

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #428 on: March 15, 2024, 12:35:12 PM »
Was everyone given the rest of the day off ? Seems weird to me.
Possible killer in that building!

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #428 on: March 15, 2024, 12:35:12 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #429 on: March 16, 2024, 10:18:33 AM »
Was everyone given the rest of the day off ? Seems weird to me.
Possible killer in that building!

What do you think should have happened?

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #430 on: March 17, 2024, 01:38:52 AM »
Was everyone given the rest of the day off ? Seems weird to me.
Possible killer in that building!

And the play should have gone on after Lincoln was assassinated.  Imagine if the world were deprived of this kind of commentary?  I can't wait until we get 50 pages of analysis of the movements of "Johnny Peanut" Spangler which proves Booth could not be the assassin. 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 01:43:21 AM by Richard Smith »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #431 on: March 17, 2024, 06:43:06 PM »
And the play should have gone on after Lincoln was assassinated.  Imagine if the world were deprived of this kind of commentary?  I can't wait until we get 50 pages of analysis of the movements of "Johnny Peanut" Spangler which proves Booth could not be the assassin.

Rather than marvel at the relentless nothingness of your posts, let's see if you can actually take part in a debate without simply parroting your spoon-fed beliefs.

Why do you think Oswald included Shelley as part of his alibi?

Why do you think Lovelady and Shelley lied about their movements after the assassination?



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Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Reply #431 on: March 17, 2024, 06:43:06 PM »