The Shifting Single-Bullet Theory--It Always "Works" No Matter What

[John Mytton]

I just had to laugh out loud when you asked me if I realized that Nix and Zapruder were on opposite sides of Dealey Plaza! This qualifies you for the Captain Duh award, and the Captain Meaningless Argument award. Uh, yes, I've told you at least twice now that Nix and Zapruder were on opposite sides of the limo. What don't you understand about this?

And, again, your own graphics show that the POV/camera angles were not that different, certainly not enough to account for the drastic differences in Jackie's and Hill's locations and positions in the Nix and Zapruder films.

.

Hilarious! The reason I was seeking further clarification is that even though you claim to realise that the Zapruder and Nix were filmed from diametrically opposed locations,  you then go on to repeatedly assert that their POV were not that different? How the heck did you come to that conclusion? And do you know what POV actually means??
Some of the delusional crap that you bonkers CT believers come up with is absolute comedy gold.

JohnM

[Michael T. Griffith]

This thread is a good example of the kind of reaching and straining and absurdity you get when you have a group of people who are chained down by a vacuous, discredited theory, i.e., the theory that there was only one gunman and that he fired only three shots.

Apparently in response to the Knott Lab 3D laser analysis that proves the SBT is impossible, we have one person making the astounding claim that the SBT is not necessary for the lone-gunman theory. Of course, in point of fact, we have known for many years from a host of released memos, among other sources, that WC staffers, especially Specter, concocted the theory because they realized the Zapruder film proved that JFK and Connally were hit too soon in succession for one gunman to have fired both non-fatal shots. 

Let us start with WC staffer Melvin Eisenberg’s 4/22/64 memorandum for record in which he admitted that JFK has clearly been hit by Z224-225 because of the movement of his hands:

The President had been definitely hit by frames 224-225, when he emerges from behind a sign with his hands clutching his throat. (p. 1)

It should be noted that Eisenberg was summarizing the views and findings from a conference held with a number of experts to determine from the Zapruder frames when the first and second bullets struck (i.e., the first and second bullets that the Commission was willing to acknowledge). The experts included the three autopsy doctors, Dr. F.W. Light, Dr. Alfred Olivier, FBI photographic expert Lyndal Shaneyfelt, and Eisenberg and Specter, among others.

The consensus from the conference of experts, said Eisenberg, was that JFK’s Z224-225 reaction may have begun as early as Z199 because of some apparent “jerkiness in his movement” at that point, but that “with a higher degree of possibility” the reaction began at Z204-206 because “his right elbow appears to be raised to an artificially high position”:

(b) The reaction shown in frames 224-225 may have started at an earlier point -- possibly as early as frame 199 (when there appears to be some jerkiness in his movement) or, with a higher degree of possibility, at frames 204-206 (where his right elbow appears to be raised to an artificially high position). (p. 1)

The HSCA PEP experts noted these exact same movements from Z200-206, only they noted them in more detail. These movements are part of the reason that the HSCA PEP determined that JFK was hit before Z190. This was and is a momentous finding because the alleged lone gunman’s view of JFK would have been obscured by the intervening oak tree from Z166 until Z210, with only a split-second break in the foliage at Z186 (not enough time for the human brain to process and respond to visual data).

To everyone except brainwashed pro-WC robots, the fact that JFK is already clearly reacting in Z225, not to mention Z224, proves indisputably and self-evidently that he could not be reacting to a Z224 hit, that this reaction began many frames earlier and was in response to a wound that occurred many frames earlier.

So far, I have stressed JFK’s Z225 reaction, but he is also already reacting in Z224. When he reemerges partially into view from behind the freeway sign in Z224, his left forearm is bent inward, whereas it was resting casually at his side before Z200. Z225 makes it obvious that this is part of his action of bringing both of his forearms and hands toward his throat. So, obviously, his Z224 reaction could not be in response to a Z224 hit.
 
WC chief counsel J. Lee Rankin acknowledged in his 5/7/64 memo to J. Edgar Hoover that at least 41 frames would have had to elapse between the first and second shots (i.e., the WC’s posited first and second shots):

The FBI laboratory examination of the Zapruder camera establishes that it operates at a speed of 18-1/3 frames per second. Weapons experts have testified that the minimum time required to operate the assassination weapon is 2-1/4 [2.25] seconds.  It would appear, therefore, that a minimum of 41 frames would have to elapse between the first and second shots. (18-1/3 x 2-1/4). (p. 1)

Thus, if any WC apologists are willing to admit that the Knott Lab 3D laser analysis destroys the SBT (so far I’ve seen only one who’s willing to admit this), and if they are still wedded to the mythical Z224 hit on Connally, and if they are willing to admit that JFK must have been hit no later than Z190 (given his Z200-206 and Z224-225 reactions), then they must face the fact that their alleged lone gunman would have had no more than 34 frames, or 1.85 seconds, to fire two shots. If we assume the first hit occurred at Z186, the alleged single shooter would have had no more than 38 frames, or only 2.07 seconds, to fire two shots.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Hilarious! The reason I was seeking further clarification is that even though you claim to realise that the Zapruder and Nix were filmed from diametrically opposed locations,  you then go on to repeatedly assert that their POV were not that different? How the heck did you come to that conclusion? And do you know what POV actually means?? Some of the delusional crap that you bonkers CT believers come up with is absolute comedy gold.

I think you were seeking "further clarification" either to dishonestly posture and/or because you appear to have trouble with English and/or because you only skim over my replies and do not actually read them (even though you quote them). How many times have I said that the Nix and Zapruder camera angles were not that different, while I noted that Nix and Zapruder filmed from opposite sites of the car? I made this point in my previous reply to you (Reply #15), and I made it in my second-previous reply to you (Reply #11). Allow me to quote myself from Reply #11:

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Your attempt to deal with Jackie's and Hill's conflicting locations in the Zapruder film and the Nix film is a joke. You won't even admit what anyone with two working eyes can plainly see about the distance between Jackie's and Hill's heads alone in the two films. Your entire "explanation" is that the apparent differences in their positions in the films are just an optical illusion caused by the fact that the films were shot from different sides of the limo and from different angles, yet one of your own graphics proves that the camera angles are not drastically different.

The camera angles are key, not the fact that the cameras were on opposite sides of the limo. Two cameras filming from opposite sides of a car are going to capture the same information about the positions and locations of bodies on/in the car, as long as they're filming from angles that are not drastically different. Simple common sense should tell you this.
----------------------------------------------

Remember now? Got it? Are we clear now?

Your own graphic titled "Spatial Chart 4 Northern Half of Dealey Plaza" shows that the camera angles were quite similar. They were nowhere near different enough to create the optical illusion that you are absurdly suggesting, but this is the only explanation you have offered to explain the self-evident conflict between Jackie's and Hill's locations and positions in the Nix and Zapruder films.

And here we go again, no actual evidence, no refutation of my images, just the same old tired claims that what you see, in your opinion proves the Zapruder has been altered. Yawn!

For goodness sakes, for once in your life prove at least one of your stupid claims, and for bonus points provide some evidence of exactly how this alteration was accomplished and no, saying the film went to some secret CIA lab is not proof, and for that matter, the decades old recollections of CIA agent's rusty old memories isn't proof either.

Translation: You have no answer for the indications of alteration that have been discussed by experts such as Ryan, Weatherly, Costella, Schaeffer, Mantik, and others, and so you're going to fall back on your tactic of issuing adamant summary pronouncements based on your ideological rejection of even the possibility of alteration.

I'm guessing you still have not bothered to read any of the research done by the above-mentioned experts, right? Right? Here's a link to Dr. David Mantik's 42-page study on evidence of alteration in the Zapruder film titled "The Zapruder Film Controversy":

https://themantikview.org/pdf/The_Zapruder_Film_Controversy.pdf

You'll notice he spends eight pages on the arguments for authenticity. Given your pitiful response to my article on alteration, I can only imagine the illogical and evasive gyrations you're going to provide if you comment on Dr. Mantik's research.

Also, the Brehm claim is your claim and it's absolutely absurd for you, to ask me, to provide a recreation, so how about you show us your timed reenactment that you say you did and we can start from there?

Oh! It's "absolutely absurd" of me to challenge you to do a reenactment to back up your claim that a young boy, or even an adult, could perform all of Brehm Jr.'s actions in only 0.61 seconds?! Do you have any idea how silly you look in saying this? Exactly what in the world is "absurd" about challenging you to back up your claim with a reenactment? Huh? You see, most people believe that reenactments can provide crucial evidence about disputed events. That's why police departments and other investigative bodies often conduct reenactments. That's why the WC conducted several reenactments.

Be honest: You don't want to do a timed and filmed reenactment because deep down you know there's no way your stand-in will be able to duplicate Brehm Jr.'s movements in just 0.61 seconds. We both know it.

I actually did film the reenactment that I did with my son Jacob when we lived in England in the 1990s, but I recorded it with a VHS camera, and the VHS tape did not survive being shipped back to the U.S. When we received our household goods after we moved back to the states, I sadly discovered that the movers had packed our VHS tapes in a flimsy cardboard box without using padding and that the VHS tape of the reenactment, along with many other VHS tapes in the box, was crushed and damaged beyond recovery.

[CORRECTED]I actually did film the reenactment that I did with my son Jacob when we lived in Georgia in 1998, but I recorded it with a VHS camera, and the VHS tape did not survive being shipped to Texas. When we received our household goods in Texas, I sadly discovered that the movers had packed our VHS tapes in a flimsy cardboard box without using padding and that the VHS tape of the reenactment, along with many other VHS tapes in the box, was crushed and damaged beyond recovery.

[After I posted this reply, I started getting the gnawing feeling that I had erred on when I did the reenactment and in what move the video got destroyed. The more I thought about it, the more I began to suspect that I'd done the reenactment when we lived in Georgia and that the tape got destroyed in our move from Georgia to Texas. For one thing, as I thought back about our move from England, I recalled that the British movers had been very careful with our stuff and had used a ton of wrapping paper to make sure nothing got broken. Anyway, after doing a little searching, I found the third edition of my Zapruder film alteration article and confirmed my suspicion that I did the reenactment with Jacob in 1998 and that the VHS tape got destroyed when our household goods were shipped from Georgia to Texas.]

[John Mytton]

I think you were seeking "further clarification" either to dishonestly posture and/or because you appear to have trouble with English and/or because you only skim over my replies and do not actually read them (even though you quote them). How many times have I said that the Nix and Zapruder camera angles were not that different, while I noted that Nix and Zapruder filmed from opposite sites of the car? I made this point in my previous reply to you (Reply #15), and I made it in my second-previous reply to you (Reply #11). Allow me to quote myself from Reply #11:

----------------------------------------------
Your attempt to deal with Jackie's and Hill's conflicting locations in the Zapruder film and the Nix film is a joke. You won't even admit what anyone with two working eyes can plainly see about the distance between Jackie's and Hill's heads alone in the two films. Your entire "explanation" is that the apparent differences in their positions in the films are just an optical illusion caused by the fact that the films were shot from different sides of the limo and from different angles, yet one of your own graphics proves that the camera angles are not drastically different.

The camera angles are key, not the fact that the cameras were on opposite sides of the limo. Two cameras filming from opposite sides of a car are going to capture the same information about the positions and locations of bodies on/in the car, as long as they're filming from angles that are not drastically different. Simple common sense should tell you this.
----------------------------------------------

Remember now? Got it? Are we clear now?

Your own graphic titled "Spatial Chart 4 Northern Half of Dealey Plaza" shows that the camera angles were quite similar. They were nowhere near different enough to create the optical illusion that you are absurdly suggesting, but this is the only explanation you have offered to explain the self-evident conflict between Jackie's and Hill's locations and positions in the Nix and Zapruder films.

Translation: You have no answer for the indications of alteration that have been discussed by experts such as Ryan, Weatherly, Costella, Schaeffer, Mantik, and others, and so you're going to fall back on your tactic of issuing adamant summary pronouncements based on your ideological rejection of even the possibility of alteration.

I'm guessing you still have not bothered to read any of the research done by the above-mentioned experts, right? Right? Here's a link to Dr. David Mantik's 42-page study on evidence of alteration in the Zapruder film titled "The Zapruder Film Controversy":

https://themantikview.org/pdf/The_Zapruder_Film_Controversy.pdf

You'll notice he spends eight pages on the arguments for authenticity. Given your pitiful response to my article on alteration, I can only imagine the illogical and evasive gyrations you're going to provide if you comment on Dr. Mantik's research.

Oh! It's "absolutely absurd" of me to challenge you to do a reenactment to back up your claim that a young boy, or even an adult, could perform all of Brehm Jr.'s actions in only 0.61 seconds?! Do you have any idea how silly you look in saying this? Exactly what in the world is "absurd" about challenging you to back up your claim with a reenactment? Huh? You see, most people believe that reenactments can provide crucial evidence about disputed events. That's why police departments and other investigative bodies often conduct reenactments. That's why the WC conducted several reenactments.

Be honest: You don't want to do a timed and filmed reenactment because deep down you know there's no way your stand-in will be able to duplicate Brehm Jr.'s movements in just 0.61 seconds. We both know it.

I actually did film the reenactment that I did with my son Jacob when we lived in England in the 1990s, but I recorded it with a VHS camera, and the VHS tape did not survive being shipped back to the U.S. When we received our household goods after we moved back to the states, I sadly discovered that the movers had packed our VHS tapes in a flimsy cardboard box without using padding and that the VHS tape of the reenactment, along with many other VHS tapes in the box, was crushed and damaged beyond recovery.

This is getting tiring, you keep presenting the same endless wall of words of regurgitated garbage but I just couldn't let some of the idiocy in this laughable post go by without highlighting just how delusional you really are.
My responses are grounded in physics, science and perspective whereas your weak attempts of refutation are based on your opinions, biased observations and maintaining this unseen conspiracy just so you can move a few more books, I've seen this before with the likes of Jim DiEugenio, another clown who never met a conspiracy he didn't like, and just so he also could maintain the rage and sell just 1 more book or sell 1 more deceptive DVD. Pathetic!

1. I'll tackle this nonsense first, you say you moved and your VHS tapes which in my experience are virtually indestructible, were "crushed", Hahahaha, you can throw 1 of those solid bad boys against a wall and they will still function, did you also pack Big Ben and London Bridge on top of them and even then I doubt they would be "crushed beyond recovery"? What a Dildo!

2. I have never doubted the reasoning on doing an originally unfilmed re-enactment, I wholeheartedly endorse the Baker time trial and the confirmation that Oswald had ample time to arrive at the 2nd floor Lunchroom. But asking me to prove/disprove another 1 of your dreamed up fantasies goes beyond the pale, It's YOUR problem not mine and it's up to YOU to provide evidence, it's as simple as that! Besides since the event was filmed and I have supplied a stabilized GIF of what actually happened, therefore makes any further involvement from me to be redundant! It happened as said and looks perfectly normal.



3. I see you have doubled down on your "camera angles were quite similar", and even though I supplied a graphic which completely destroyed your bizarre observation, you keep repeating your stupidity? Am I secretly on Candid Camera or is this some sort of alien experiment on the the concept of gullibility?

Once again the angles are NOT even remotely similar and the change of perspective accounts for the varying distances between Clint and Jackie. This is basic Kindergarten perspective 101!







4. Your Zapruder PDF is total lunacy, and I disproved a number of your amateur observations, like Malcom Summers leg being splayed forward which is proved because his left shoe is covering his right ankle, again Basic Perspective 101.



I could go on and on and on refuting your amateur observations but everyone has their limit and I'm rapidly approaching mine, go ahead and believe what you want but in the centuries to come, the events in Dealey Plaza are already in the history books and these wacky theories of yours will soon be forgotten and true history will prevail, as it always does.
Btw, your often repeated defence of "2/3 of the Western World believes..." malarkey is based on random selective polls of people who basically don't know the evidence beyond a few nuggets of CT nonsense and when the evidence is revealed to a jury as in the TV trial of Oswald, the jury had no qualms in convicting Oswald, and that's the fact Jack! Just imagine a jury being exposed to your endless unproven ludicrous accusations, you'd be thrown out of Court on your ass and probably sent to a Psychiatric Asylum.

JohnM

[Michael T. Griffith]

I actually did film the reenactment that I did with my son Jacob when we lived in England in the 1990s, but I recorded it with a VHS camera, and the VHS tape did not survive being shipped back to the U.S. When we received our household goods after we moved back to the states, I sadly discovered that the movers had packed our VHS tapes in a flimsy cardboard box without using padding and that the VHS tape of the reenactment, along with many other VHS tapes in the box, was crushed and damaged beyond recovery.

CORRECTION: After I posted the above-quoted paragraph in my previous reply, I started getting the gnawing feeling that I had erred on when I did the reenactment and in what move the video got destroyed. The more I thought about it, the more I began to suspect that I'd done the reenactment when we lived in Georgia and that the tape got destroyed in our move from Georgia to Texas. For one thing, as I thought back about our move from England, I recalled that the British movers were very careful with our stuff and used a ton of wrapping paper to make sure nothing got broken. After doing a little searching, I found the third edition of my Zapruder film alteration article and confirmed my suspicion that I did the reenactment with Jacob in 1998 and that the VHS tape got destroyed when our household goods were shipped from Georgia to Texas.

I've edited the original reply by adding a correction notice and by striking out the incorrect statements about when the reenactment was done and when the VHS tape got destroyed.

[John Mytton]

CORRECTION: After I posted the above-quoted paragraph in my previous reply, I started getting the gnawing feeling that I had erred on when I did the reenactment and in what move the video got destroyed. The more I thought about it, the more I began to suspect that I'd done the reenactment when we lived in Georgia and that the tape got destroyed in our move from Georgia to Texas. For one thing, as I thought back about our move from England, I recalled that the British movers were very careful with our stuff and used a ton of wrapping paper to make sure nothing got broken. After doing a little searching, I found the third edition of my Zapruder film alteration article and confirmed my suspicion that I did the reenactment with Jacob in 1998 and that the VHS tape got destroyed when our household goods were shipped from Georgia to Texas.

I've edited the original reply by adding a correction notice and by striking out the incorrect statements about when the reenactment was done and when the VHS tape got destroyed.

I appreciate the clarification but the where and when is irrelevant, more info on the how would definitely help you! Because under reasonable circumstances, a virtually indestructible VHS tape is highly unlikely to be destroyed. Did your movers clobber the tape with a sledge hammer because with your hostile attitude I wouldn't doubt it!

JohnM

[Michael T. Griffith]

This is getting tiring, you keep presenting the same endless wall of words of regurgitated garbage but I just couldn't let some of the idiocy in this laughable post go by without highlighting just how delusional you really are.

Once again you come across as a teenager who is losing the argument and who resorts to a bunch of name-calling and yelling to vent his frustration.

I notice you said nothing about Dr. David Mantik's 42-page study on evidence of alteration in the Zapruder film. Here's the link again for your convenience:

"The Zapruder Film Controversy"
https://themantikview.org/pdf/The_Zapruder_Film_Controversy.pdf

My responses are grounded in physics, science and perspective whereas your weak attempts of refutation are based on your opinions, biased observations and maintaining this unseen conspiracy just so you can move a few more books, I've seen this before with the likes of Jim DiEugenio, another clown who never met a conspiracy he didn't like, and just so he also could maintain the rage and sell just 1 more book or sell 1 more deceptive DVD. Pathetic!

No, your responses consist of endless evasions, demonstrably bogus arguments, and juvenile name-calling. You said your phony limo slowdown is "obvious," yet even Dr. Alvarez, an ardent WC apologist, said he could only find one brief slowdown in the Zapruder film, and it was not your bogus slowdown. The slowdown he found, which he only detected via careful frame-by-frame analysis, is the split-second, virtually imperceptible slowdown in Z295-304, a slowdown that you yourself did not notice.

You would have us believe that the dozens of eyewitness accounts of the limo stopping or markedly slowing are all describing a half-second slowdown in the Zapruder film that no one noticed until Alvarez detected it with frame-by-frame analysis. This is your idea of a response "grounded in physics, science and perspective"?

1. I'll tackle this nonsense first, you say you moved and your VHS tapes which in my experience are virtually indestructible, were "crushed", Hahahaha, you can throw 1 of those solid bad boys against a wall and they will still function, did you also pack Big Ben and London Bridge on top of them and even then I doubt they would be "crushed beyond recovery"? What a Dildo!

I address this below, but I have to chuckle at your description of VHS cassettes, which are made of plastic, as "virtually indestructible." Really? I remember my kids accidentally stepping on a couple of them and ruining them as a result. You should do a reenactment where you throw a VHS tape up against a wall with enough force to simulate, say, 120 pounds being applied to the top or bottom. Yeah, let's see you do that and then try to play it. Let's see it.

2. I have never doubted the reasoning on doing an originally unfilmed re-enactment, I wholeheartedly endorse the Baker time trial and the confirmation that Oswald had ample time to arrive at the 2nd floor Lunchroom.

Wrong. The WC Baker-Oswald reenactment proved no such thing. Even some WC apologists have admitted that the Commission's reenactment was unrealistic. Yet, here you are you repeating the debunked claim that it proved Oswald had ample time to get into the second-floor lunchroom. Why don't you venture to explain how he could have done that without being seen by Truly, who was running ahead of Baker and who was already on the third-floor steps when Baker got on the second-floor landing and saw Oswald through the door window? You might read these articles first, before you embarrass yourself further:

Where Was Oswald During the Shooting?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12wAiq3B9Sc1BfBc7qay2vYswNrcQY_Rt/view

The Baker-Oswald Encounter
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vFu2SyC373LpYKZRp6v5vtCDGzlri4N0/view

But asking me to prove/disprove another 1 of your dreamed up fantasies goes beyond the pale, It's YOUR problem not mine and it's up to YOU to provide evidence, it's as simple as that! Besides since the event was filmed and I have supplied a stabilized GIF of what actually happened, therefore makes any further involvement from me to be redundant! It happened as said and looks perfectly normal.

You can holler and scream and stomp your feet like a bratty teen all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that your "stabilized GIF" shows Brehm Jr. behind his father one moment and then standing calmly beside him and clapping just 0.61 seconds later, just as we see in the Zapruder film.

To see how vacuous and unrealistic your argument is, see how long it takes you just to reach for and grasp a cup while sitting at your desk. I'll bet my 401Ks that it will take you right around 1 second to do this, even if you're trying to do it quickly. Yet, you would have us believe that Brehm Jr. was standing behind his father one moment and then, just 0.61 seconds later, had magically moved about 2 feet and was calmly standing beside his father and clapping. 

No wonder you refuse to do a reenactment. No wonder you don't want to try to prove your claim that there's nothing unusual or unnaturally rapid about the boy's movements.

When I did my reenactment with my son Jacob, Jacob tried 12 times to duplicate Brehm Jr.'s feat. With a stopwatch in hand, I timed each attempt. Jacob's times were 0.97, 0.99, 0.89, 0.92, 1.03, 0.92, 0.89, 0.99, 0.97, 0.85, 0.82, and 0.77 seconds, as compared to Brehm junior’s amazing time of 0.56 seconds or 0.61 seconds. For his last three attempts, Jacob was practically jumping out from behind the chair, but it took him time to steady himself and to start clapping his hands.

Anyone can try this experiment at home and see how impossibly fast Brehm Jr. performs his movements.

3. I see you have doubled down on your "camera angles were quite similar", and even though I supplied a graphic which completely destroyed your bizarre observation, you keep repeating your stupidity? Am I secretly on Candid Camera or is this some sort of alien experiment on the the concept of gullibility?

Once again the angles are NOT even remotely similar and the change of perspective accounts for the varying distances between Clint and Jackie. This is basic Kindergarten perspective 101!

This is just more of your dishonest, erroneous bluster. Anyone with two working eyes can see that the camera angles are quite similar. That's why both Z380 and the corresponding Nix frame show the rear wheel on their side, show their end of the rear bumper, show the respective sides of Jackie's and Hill's bodies. This would not be the case if the viewing angles were markedly different. Apparently you just don't care or realize that your own Dealey Plaza-diagram graphic shows that the viewing angles are not all that different.

Again, as is readily apparent to anyone who isn't committed to denying what they can see, in Z380 Jackie's head is clearly at least 3 feet from Hill's head, and Jackie's right hand and Hill's hands are at least 1 foot apart, but in the Nix frame their heads almost appear to be touching, with no space between them, and Hill's left hand appears to be beyond Jackie's right hand. You can delude yourself into believing that this is just a gigantic optical illusion caused by drastically different camera angles, but few people are going to join you in your self-delusion.

4. Your Zapruder PDF is total lunacy, and I disproved a number of your amateur observations, like Malcom Summers leg being splayed forward which is proved because his left shoe is covering his right ankle, again Basic Perspective 101.

If anyone is displaying "lunacy," it's you. You are denying what is plainly visible. Look at Summers' left leg in Z353. It is mostly extended and is at least 6 inches off the ground. His left leg is virtually parallel with his right leg. You can't tell me that you don't see this.

But look at his left leg in the very next frame, Z354. His left foreleg is bent markedly backward. You can tell this just by the fact that his left foot is now directly above his right foot, whereas in Z353 his left foot is extended beyond his right foot. Again, you can't tell me that you don't see this. 

And then look at his position in Z356, just three frames or 3/18ths of a second later. It's very different from how he looks in Z353. Not only are his legs in a noticeably different position, but his left arm and upper body are in a noticeably different position. I know you can see these things. Anyone can see them. They are self-evident.

Sorry, but down here on Earth, humans can't whip their legs, arms, and upper bodies from and into such different positions that quickly.

I could go on and on and on refuting your amateur observations but everyone has their limit and I'm rapidly approaching mine, go ahead and believe what you want but in the centuries to come, the events in Dealey Plaza are already in the history books and these wacky theories of yours will soon be forgotten and true history will prevail, as it always does.

You're the amateur here. You've proved that over and over again. Is "John Mytton" even your real name? Do you have a website? If not, why not? Have you published any articles or books on the JFK case? If not, why not? I've asked you this before, and you ducked it.

Btw, your often repeated defence of "2/3 of the Western World believes..." malarkey is based on random selective polls of people who basically don't know the evidence beyond a few nuggets of CT nonsense and when the evidence is revealed to a jury as in the TV trial of Oswald, the jury had no qualms in convicting Oswald, and that's the fact Jack! Just imagine a jury being exposed to your endless unproven ludicrous accusations, you'd be thrown out of Court on your ass and probably sent to a Psychiatric Asylum. JohnM

Yeah, of course, Mr. Bloviating Teenager. "Random selective polls"? Uh, polls of this nature are supposed to be random. That's the whole idea. You continue to show a poor level of education.

Let's say this: How about if you find me a random or at least a large-sample poll done by a recognized/reputable organization that found that a majority of the respondents believed in the lone-gunman theory? Hey? Find me one reputable poll that has found this.

As for the guilty verdict in the "TV trial of Oswald," I assume you're referring to the Showtime mock Oswald trial that was held in London in 1986. What about the other mock Oswald trials? Any clue?

As you may or may not know, the 1992 A&E mock Oswald trial ended with Oswald's acquittal. The three 2013 mock Oswald trials held in Texas all ended in hung juries, with about 3/4ths of a selected focus group that watched one of the trials voting that a conspiracy had been involved. The 1992 ABA mock Oswald trial held in San Francisco ended in a hung jury, with three of the five jurors dismissed during voir dire voting for acquittal. The 1967 Yale Law School mock Oswald trial ended in a hung jury.

So, gee, I guess the case against Oswald isn't as "overwhelming" as you keep claiming it is. Hey? Why do you suppose that even Dallas police chief Jesse Curry said no one had been able to put Oswald in the sixth-floor window with a rifle in his hands? Why do you suppose that even Norman Mailer said he could have gotten acquitted in a trial?

And, you should understand that many of the jurors who voted guilty in the mock trials said they did not believe that Oswald acted alone. Even the majority of the jurors in the Clay Shaw trial said they believed a conspiracy had killed JFK. Saying that Oswald was guilty is not automatically the same thing as saying there was no conspiracy. Many people who believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy also believe that Oswald fired shots and was part of the conspiracy.

I appreciate the clarification but the where and when is irrelevant, more info on how, under reasonable circumstances, a virtually indestructible VHS tape could possibly be destroyed would definitely help you. Did your movers clobber the tape with a sledge hammer because with your hostile attitude I wouldn't doubt it!JohnM

"Virtually indestructible VHS tape"?! Anyone who has owned VHS tapes will recognize your comment as clownish. Anyway, as I explained, the reenactment tape and several other tapes were crushed and damaged beyond recovery because they were packed in a flimsy cardboard box and with no padding. You need more "clarification" than that? Okay, the plastic cassettes that encased the magnetic tapes were crushed so badly that they cracked and broke into pieces--they were, after all, made of plastic. The magnetic tape inside the reenactment cassette was cut and twisted as a result of the crushing and cracking of the cassette.

[John Mytton]

Once again you come across as a teenager who is losing the argument and who resorts to a bunch of name-calling and yelling to vent his frustration.

No, your responses consist of endless evasions, demonstrably bogus arguments, and juvenile name-calling. You said your phony limo slowdown is "obvious," yet even Dr. Alvarez, an ardent WC apologist, said he could only find one brief slowdown in the Zapruder film, and it was not your bogus slowdown. The slowdown he found, which he only detected via careful frame-by-frame analysis, is the split-second, virtually imperceptible slowdown in Z295-304, a slowdown that you yourself did not notice.

You would have us believe that the dozens of eyewitness accounts of the limo stopping or markedly slowing are all describing a half-second slowdown in the Zapruder film that no one noticed until Alvarez detected it with frame-by-frame analysis. This is your idea of a response "grounded in physics, science and perspective"?

I address this below, but I have to chuckle at your description of VHS cassettes, which are made of plastic, as "virtually indestructible." Really? I remember my kids accidentally stepping on a couple of them and ruining them as a result. You should do a reenactment where you throw a VHS tape up against a wall with enough force to simulate, say, 120 pounds being applied to the top or bottom. Yeah, let's see you do that and then try to play it. Let's see it.

Wrong. The WC Baker-Oswald reenactment proved no such thing. Even some WC apologists have admitted that the Commission's reenactment was unrealistic. Yet, here you are you repeating the debunked claim that it proved Oswald had ample time to get into the second-floor lunchroom. Why don't you venture to explain how he could have done that without being seen by Truly, who was running ahead of Baker and who was already on the third-floor steps when Baker got on the second-floor landing and saw Oswald through the door window? You might read these articles first, before you embarrass yourself further:

Where Was Oswald During the Shooting?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12wAiq3B9Sc1BfBc7qay2vYswNrcQY_Rt/view

The Baker-Oswald Encounter
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vFu2SyC373LpYKZRp6v5vtCDGzlri4N0/view

You can holler and scream and stomp your feet like a bratty teen all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that your "stabilized GIF" shows Brehm Jr. behind his father one moment and then standing calmly beside him and clapping just 0.61 seconds later, just as we see in the Zapruder film.

To see how vacuous and unrealistic your argument is, see how long it takes you just to reach for and grasp a cup while sitting at your desk. I'll bet my 401Ks that it will take you right around 1 second to do this, even if you're trying to do it quickly. Yet, you would have us believe that Brehm Jr. was standing behind his father one moment and then, just 0.61 seconds later, had magically moved about 2 feet and was calmly standing beside his father and clapping. 

No wonder you refuse to do a reenactment. No wonder you don't want to try to prove your claim that there's nothing unusual or unnaturally rapid about the boy's movements.

When I did my reenactment with my son Jacob, Jacob tried 12 times to duplicate Brehm Jr.'s feat. With a stopwatch in hand, I timed each attempt. Jacob's times were 0.97, 0.99, 0.89, 0.92, 1.03, 0.92, 0.89, 0.99, 0.97, 0.85, 0.82, and 0.77 seconds, as compared to Brehm junior’s amazing time of 0.56 seconds or 0.61 seconds. For his last three attempts, Jacob was practically jumping out from behind the chair, but it took him time to steady himself and to start clapping his hands.

Anyone can try this experiment at home and see how impossibly fast Brehm Jr. performs his movements.

This is just more of your dishonest, erroneous bluster. Anyone with two working eyes can see that the camera angles are quite similar. That's why both Z380 and the corresponding Nix frame show the rear wheel on their side, show their end of the rear bumper, show the respective sides of Jackie's and Hill's bodies. This would not be the case if the viewing angles were markedly different. Apparently you just don't care or realize that your own Dealey Plaza-diagram graphic shows that the viewing angles are not all that different.

Again, as is readily apparent to anyone who isn't committed to denying what they can see, in Z380 Jackie's head is clearly at least 3 feet from Hill's head, and Jackie's right hand and Hill's hands are at least 1 foot apart, but in the Nix frame their heads almost appear to be touching, with no space between them, and Hill's left hand appears to be beyond Jackie's right hand. You can delude yourself into believing that this is just a gigantic optical illusion caused by drastically different camera angles, but few people are going to join you in your self-delusion.

If anyone is displaying "lunacy," it's you. You are denying what is plainly visible. Look at Summers' left leg in Z353. It is mostly extended and is at least 6 inches off the ground. His left leg is virtually parallel with his right leg. You can't tell me that you don't see this.

But look at his left leg in the very next frame, Z354. His left foreleg is bent markedly backward. You can tell this just by the fact that his left foot is now directly above his right foot, whereas in Z353 his left foot is extended beyond his right foot. Again, you can't tell me that you don't see this. 

And then look at his position in Z356, just three frames or 3/18ths of a second later. It's very different from how he looks in Z353. Not only are his legs in a noticeably different position, but his left arm and upper body are in a noticeably different position. I know you can see these things. Anyone can see them. They are self-evident.

Sorry, but down here on Earth, humans can't whip their legs, arms, and upper bodies from and into such different positions that quickly.

You're the amateur here. You've proved that over and over again. Is "John Mytton" even your real name? Do you have a website? If not, why not? Have you published any articles or books on the JFK case? If not, why not? I've asked you this before, and you ducked it.

Yeah, of course, Mr. Bloviating Teenager. "Random selective polls"? Uh, polls of this nature are supposed to be random. That's the whole idea. You continue to show a poor level of education.

Let's say this: How about if you find me a random or at least a large-sample poll done by a recognized/reputable organization that found that a majority of the respondents believed in the lone-gunman theory? Hey? Find me one reputable poll that has found this.

As for the guilty verdict in the "TV trial of Oswald," I assume you're referring to the Showtime mock Oswald trial that was held in London in 1986. What about the other mock Oswald trials? Any clue?

As you may or may not know, the 1992 A&E mock Oswald trial ended with Oswald's acquittal. The three 2013 mock Oswald trials held in Texas all ended in hung juries, with about 3/4ths of a selected focus group that watched one of the trials voting that a conspiracy had been involved. The 1992 ABA mock Oswald trial held in San Francisco ended in a hung jury, with three of the five jurors dismissed during voir dire voting for acquittal. The 1967 Yale Law School mock Oswald trial ended in a hung jury.

So, gee, I guess the case against Oswald isn't as "overwhelming" as you keep claiming it is. Hey? Why do you suppose that even Dallas police chief Jesse Curry said no one had been able to put Oswald in the sixth-floor window with a rifle in his hands? Why do you suppose that even Norman Mailer said he could have gotten acquitted in a trial?

And, you should understand that many of the jurors who voted guilty in the mock trials said they did not believe that Oswald acted alone. Even the majority of the jurors in the Clay Shaw trial said they believed a conspiracy had killed JFK. Saying that Oswald was guilty is not automatically the same thing as saying there was no conspiracy. Many people who believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy also believe that Oswald fired shots and was part of the conspiracy.

"Virtually indestructible VHS tape"?! Anyone who has owned VHS tapes will recognize your comment as clownish. Anyway, as I explained, the reenactment tape and several other tapes were crushed and damaged beyond recovery because they were packed in a flimsy cardboard box and with no padding. You need more "clarification" than that? Okay, the plastic cassettes that encased the magnetic tapes were crushed so badly that they cracked and broke into pieces--they were, after all, made of plastic. The magnetic tape inside the reenactment cassette was cut and twisted as a result of the crushing and cracking of the cassette.

1. Once again, in a topic analysing the visual record, I provide irrefutable visual evidence whereas you provide your amateur opinion! Nuff said!

2. Another week goes by and again the same old story story about how you did the "Brehm's son" experiment yada yada yada, and now you provide a challenge that anybody can do this at home, so why the heck haven't you done this at home and filmed it with your phone and posted it here. The experiment itself could be set up in minutes and completed in less than a literal second? Waiting... Zzzzz...

3. Why hasn't 1 member jumped to your defence, in virtually every thread I post in, the CT members form a pack mentality and love to attack me and debate me and try and beat/humiliate me, but here, all I hear are crickets, could it be because they see my replies as being grounded in science and your amateur responses as being , well, amateurish?

4) I have a Youtube channel and my JFK videos have over a half a million views, how many books have you sold? LOL!

The first part of my following video required element isolation, video matting and compositing 11 layers of video, mattes, effects, music and speech.

JohnM