That Is Not Officer Haygood = Conspiracy! Prove Me Wrong Challenge

[Charles Collins]

   The above "Chapter Notes" says Nothing about Murray taking photos back inside the train yard within 5 Minutes following the Kill Shot. (Officer Haygood's 5 minute window). I guess you do Not have ready access to Trask's "Pictures Of The Pain" and the relevant portions that pertain to Murray. I do have the book and it does contribute to my confidence regarding my groundbreaking discovery that the "No Glove Cop as filmed by Darnell/Martin is Not Officer Haygood.
   I can/will help you. "Pictures Of The Pain" page 491- "Murray noted that the parking spaces on the main streets were off-limits due to the motorcade route. He found a space by the rear loading dock of the TSBD, parking probably illegally......."  Page 493 - "Murray estimates that it took him about 3 MINUTES after hearing the 3 reports to get to his car and and prepare his cameras". Page 493- "With the 2 cameras around his neck, he quickly moved to the Elm and Houston street corner near the Book Depository front entrance.  "In 3 of Murray's first 4 pictures, his camera jammed...."  "The frames were completely over-exposed". " Murray's next frame shows another blank, and it was at this point that he switched lenses to a 35mm wide angle lens".... "I sort of worked my way off that corner, down toward the site of the grassy knoll..........." Page 494 - "Moving westerly along the DIRT Elm Street Extension road into the railroad parking area, Murray squeezed off 2 pictures..............".      To recap, Murray consumed 3 minutes just getting to his car and retrieving his cameras from the trunk. From his car parked behind the loading dock, he then went to Elm St and consumed time taking 4 photos.  After doing all of this, he then traveled down the DIRT section of the Elm St Ext and took pics in the train yard. Murray took 3 minutes alone to just get to his car and get his cameras out of the trunk. At this point, he only has 2 minutes remaining on Officer Haygood's 5 Minute Window. The Murray Tick/Tock detailed inside "Pictures Of The Pain" reveals his train yard photos to have been snapped More than 5 minutes following the Kill Shot. My discovery that the "No Glove Cop" as filmed by Darnell/Martin is Not Officer Haygood stands!

…I guess you do Not have ready access to Trask's "Pictures Of The Pain" and the relevant portions that pertain to Murray. I do have the book…


I have the book “Pictures of the Pain.” That is how I was able to take a photo of the Chapter notes and post it in this thread.


The Murray Tick/Tock detailed inside "Pictures Of The Pain" reveals his train yard photos to have been snapped More than 5 minutes following the Kill Shot.

Actually the photos conclusively show that you are wrong. The chapter notes and the detailed description of Murray’s actions clearly show that Trask had numerous communications directly with Murray, that Trask had access to original rolls of film (in which the photos are numbered sequentially) and similarly numbered contact sheets, and that the Murray photos in Trask’s book are in chronological order (the order in which they were taken). Take a look at the third photo with a caption below it that says: “Witnesses Amos Euins and Hugh Betzner are among those wandering around the parking lot area.” In that photo Amos Euins is clearly not being escorted by Harkness. Harkness’ radio message concerning his taking Euins to the front entrance area of the TSBD and depositing him in Sawyer’s car was around 12:36 (if I remember correctly). Therefore the Murray photo had to have been taken well before 12:36 (or else Euins wouldn’t be wandering around unescorted). Now, take a look at the Murray photo which was taken before the one with Euins in it. It is on the same page just above the one with Euins. There is a caption below it that says: “As one cop loos over the area from the top of a railroad car, other people walk among the parked cars.” This is the photo that clearly shows a cop (who is believed to be Haywood) with a white helmet walking near the tree on the left side of the photo. This photo was taken before the one with Euins in it, therefore it also would have to have been well before 12:36. Murray then made another photo looking east back up the Elm Street Extension. After the three photos taken in the parking/railroad yard area, Murray moved southwestward and took another photo of the crowd around Haywood’s motorcycle with Haywood’s helmet clearly showing. James Hackerott expertly timed this photo via the “shadow clock” as being taken at about 12:36. On top of all of Trask’s documentation of Murray’s actions, there is a close-up profile photo of Haywood in the railroad yard that was taken by Jay Skaggs (which I posted earlier in this thread). The Sixth Floor Museum (which has the Skaggs originals in it’s collection) identified this to be Haywood. Therefore, contrary to your opinion and totally unsupported theory of his route, Haywood DID go into the railroad yard.

[Royell Storing]

…I guess you do Not have ready access to Trask's "Pictures Of The Pain" and the relevant portions that pertain to Murray. I do have the book…


I have the book “Pictures of the Pain.” That is how I was able to take a photo of the Chapter notes and post it in this thread.


The Murray Tick/Tock detailed inside "Pictures Of The Pain" reveals his train yard photos to have been snapped More than 5 minutes following the Kill Shot.

Actually the photos conclusively show that you are wrong. The chapter notes and the detailed description of Murray’s actions clearly show that Trask had numerous communications directly with Murray, that Trask had access to original rolls of film (in which the photos are numbered sequentially) and similarly numbered contact sheets, and that the Murray photos in Trask’s book are in chronological order (the order in which they were taken). Take a look at the third photo with a caption below it that says: “Witnesses Amos Euins and Hugh Betzner are among those wandering around the parking lot area.” In that photo Amos Euins is clearly not being escorted by Harkness. Harkness’ radio message concerning his taking Euins to the front entrance area of the TSBD and depositing him in Sawyer’s car was around 12:36 (if I remember correctly). Therefore the Murray photo had to have been taken well before 12:36 (or else Euins wouldn’t be wandering around unescorted). Now, take a look at the Murray photo which was taken before the one with Euins in it. It is on the same page just above the one with Euins. There is a caption below it that says: “As one cop loos over the area from the top of a railroad car, other people walk among the parked cars.” This is the photo that clearly shows a cop (who is believed to be Haywood) with a white helmet walking near the tree on the left side of the photo. This photo was taken before the one with Euins in it, therefore it also would have to have been well before 12:36. Murray then made another photo looking east back up the Elm Street Extension. After the three photos taken in the parking/railroad yard area, Murray moved southwestward and took another photo of the crowd around Haywood’s motorcycle with Haywood’s helmet clearly showing. James Hackerott expertly timed this photo via the “shadow clock” as being taken at about 12:36. On top of all of Trask’s documentation of Murray’s actions, there is a close-up profile photo of Haywood in the railroad yard that was taken by Jay Skaggs (which I posted earlier in this thread). The Sixth Floor Museum (which has the Skaggs originals in it’s collection) identified this to be Haywood. Therefore, contrary to your opinion and totally unsupported theory of his route, Haywood DID go into the railroad yard.

    Please post your "Evidence" regarding the time stamp you are placing on the Murray Photo. I posted Evidence that Murray took 3 pics on Elm St PRIOR to going back into the railroad yard. As I detailed, those photos did not develop due to a lens issue. Therefore, just because a Murray photo is posted as being "3rd", does NOT MEAN it was the 3rd photo that Murray took that day. The overall Tick/Tock does apply to the 3 Murray Photos that did Not develop. And remember, Murray took 3 minutes alone to just get to his car and retrieve his 2 cameras.
    I never claimed that Officer Haygood Never went into the rail road yard. My claim is Haygood is Not the "No Glove Cop" as filmed by Darnell/Martin. If you look at Haygood's WC Testimony, he says at some point AFTER making his 12:37 radio transmission from his motorcycle, he THEN went to the back loading dock of the TSBD. Haygood could have been filmed/photographed in this general area at some point AFTER 12:37.
    Again, please post your evidence regarding the time lines you are attaching to alleged Officer Haygood photographs or film images. You may not realize it, but your "evidence" may further support my Discovery that the  "No Glove Cop" is NOT Officer Haygood.

[Charles Collins]

    Please post your "Evidence" regarding the time stamp you are placing on the Murray Photo. I posted Evidence that Murray took 3 pics on Elm St PRIOR to going back into the railroad yard. As I detailed, those photos did not develop due to a lens issue. Therefore, just because a Murray photo is posted as being "3rd", does NOT MEAN it was the 3rd photo that Murray took that day. The overall Tick/Tock does apply to the 3 Murray Photos that did Not develop. And remember, Murray took 3 minutes alone to just get to his car and retrieve his 2 cameras.
    I never claimed that Officer Haygood Never went into the rail road yard. My claim is Haygood is Not the "No Glove Cop" as filmed by Darnell/Martin. If you look at Haygood's WC Testimony, he says at some point AFTER making his 12:37 radio transmission from his motorcycle, he THEN went to the back loading dock of the TSBD. Haygood could have been filmed/photographed in this general area at some point AFTER 12:37.
    Again, please post your evidence regarding the time lines you are attaching to alleged Officer Haygood photographs or film images. You may not realize it, but your "evidence" may further support my Discovery that the  "No Glove Cop" is NOT Officer Haygood.

Please post your "Evidence" regarding the time stamp you are placing on the Murray Photo.


It is simple. Harkness radioed in that he had Amos Euins with him at approximately 12:36. Here is Harkness’ testimony to support this:


Mr. HARKNESS - This area.
Mr. BELIN - You are pointing to a place between what would be the extension of Elm that doesn't go down into the parkway but the actual extension of Elm?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes; to the plaza area.
Mr. BELIN - The plaza area?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did you find there?
Mr. HARKNESS - I found a little colored boy, Amos Euins, who told me he saw the shots come from that building.
Mr. BELIN - Now you just picked out a little small book, one of those little pocket notebooks?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Or a notepad from your pocket here. Is that the original notation that you made?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - When did you make that notation?
Mr. HARKNESS - Immediately after the shooting.
Mr. BELIN - Is that your own record that you have kept in your possession since then?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir. I turned.
Mr. BELIN - You turned what?
Mr. HARKNESS - After I took his name and address and put this information on the radio, I then took him on the back of my three-wheel motorcycle and put him in Inspector Sawyer's car.
Mr. BELIN - Now you mentioned that you put something on the radio here, and I hand you here what has been marked as Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A. Before doing that, do you remember what call number you used, you were using on that day?
Mr. HARKNESS - I believe 260.
Mr. BELIN - Well, I notice here that there is a call with a notation at 12:36 p.m., 260 to 531. 531 is your office in the main station?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What does it say there on that transcript?
Mr. HARKNESS - "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Mr. BELIN - All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.


The third Murray photo in Trask’s book “Pictures of the Pain” (not Murray’s third attempt to make a photo, some attempts were completely over exposed) clearly shows Amos Euins wandering in the parking/railroad yard area unescorted by Harkness. Therefore this photo was taken well before Harkness found Euins, listened to his story, and got to his motorcycle and radioed his message in at approximately 12:36. Do you understand this logic?

The second Murray photo in Trask’s book was taken before the photo with Euins in it. Therefore this photo was also taken well before approximately 12:36. This photo shows a cop (who is believed to be Haygood) with a white helmet walking near the tree on the left side of the photo. Do you understand this logic?

Murray took one additional photo (the fourth Murray photo in Trask’s book) looking east up the Elm Street extension before he headed southwest to the grassy knoll and took another photo (the fifth Murray photo in Trask’s book) of the crowd including the people around Haygood’s motorcycle. Haygood’s helmet can be seen in this photo. James Hackerott verified via the shadow clock that this photo (the fifth Murray photo in Trask’s book) was taken at approximately 12:36. James’ work supports the above logical inferences that the first four Murray photos in Trask’s book were taken before 12:36. In other words: If the fifth photo in Trask’s book was taken at approximately 12:36 the previous four photos were taken before 12:36. Do you understand this logic?

Now, if you understand and apply the three logical inferences above. The Harkness testimony regarding the timing and the meaning of his radio message (confirms that it is regarding Amos Euins) and the actual radio tape recordings are the evidence that places the time stamp on Murray’s photos.

[Royell Storing]

Please post your "Evidence" regarding the time stamp you are placing on the Murray Photo.


It is simple. Harkness radioed in that he had Amos Euins with him at approximately 12:36. Here is Harkness’ testimony to support this:


Mr. HARKNESS - This area.
Mr. BELIN - You are pointing to a place between what would be the extension of Elm that doesn't go down into the parkway but the actual extension of Elm?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes; to the plaza area.
Mr. BELIN - The plaza area?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did you find there?
Mr. HARKNESS - I found a little colored boy, Amos Euins, who told me he saw the shots come from that building.
Mr. BELIN - Now you just picked out a little small book, one of those little pocket notebooks?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Or a notepad from your pocket here. Is that the original notation that you made?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - When did you make that notation?
Mr. HARKNESS - Immediately after the shooting.
Mr. BELIN - Is that your own record that you have kept in your possession since then?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir. I turned.
Mr. BELIN - You turned what?
Mr. HARKNESS - After I took his name and address and put this information on the radio, I then took him on the back of my three-wheel motorcycle and put him in Inspector Sawyer's car.
Mr. BELIN - Now you mentioned that you put something on the radio here, and I hand you here what has been marked as Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A. Before doing that, do you remember what call number you used, you were using on that day?
Mr. HARKNESS - I believe 260.
Mr. BELIN - Well, I notice here that there is a call with a notation at 12:36 p.m., 260 to 531. 531 is your office in the main station?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What does it say there on that transcript?
Mr. HARKNESS - "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Mr. BELIN - All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.


The third Murray photo in Trask’s book “Pictures of the Pain” (not Murray’s third attempt to make a photo, some attempts were completely over exposed) clearly shows Amos Euins wandering in the parking/railroad yard area unescorted by Harkness. Therefore this photo was taken well before Harkness found Euins, listened to his story, and got to his motorcycle and radioed his message in at approximately 12:36. Do you understand this logic?

The second Murray photo in Trask’s book was taken before the photo with Euins in it. Therefore this photo was also taken well before approximately 12:36. This photo shows a cop (who is believed to be Haygood) with a white helmet walking near the tree on the left side of the photo. Do you understand this logic?

Murray took one additional photo (the fourth Murray photo in Trask’s book) looking east up the Elm Street extension before he headed southwest to the grassy knoll and took another photo (the fifth Murray photo in Trask’s book) of the crowd including the people around Haygood’s motorcycle. Haygood’s helmet can be seen in this photo. James Hackerott verified via the shadow clock that this photo (the fifth Murray photo in Trask’s book) was taken at approximately 12:36. James’ work supports the above logical inferences that the first four Murray photos in Trask’s book were taken before 12:36. In other words: If the fifth photo in Trask’s book was taken at approximately 12:36 the previous four photos were taken before 12:36. Do you understand this logic?

Now, if you understand and apply the three logical inferences above. The Harkness testimony regarding the timing and the meaning of his radio message (confirms that it is regarding Amos Euins) and the actual radio tape recordings are the evidence that places the time stamp on Murray’s photos.

   Thanks, but I am interested in FACTS. "Logical inferences"?   "BELIEVED to be Haygood" and "Well Before" are Not facts. Same goes for the "Approximate" timeline resulting from the "shadow" work.
   The 12:36 Harkness radio transmission is a Fact, but of course, this would be After the 12:35 radio transmission of Officer Haygood. This is my opinion, but that Murray photo'd White Helmeted cop is the "No Glove Cop". Haygood was Mis-ID'd walking across the train yard, and you are now compounding that Error with your echoing the erroneous Haygood ID on the Murray Photo. Remember,  Murray said it took him 3 minutes alone to just get to his car and retrieve his cameras. Murray now has Only 2 Minutes to get back to Elm St and shoot 4 pics there BEFORE heading down the Elm Ext and taking the Euins photo. And during this same 2 Minute time period, Murray is slowly coming to the realization that shots were fired/ JFK has been shot. Up to this point, Murray thought the pops he heard were fire crackers. Murray is in No Hurry as he walks back from his car and eventually begins taking the 4 photos on Elm St. With Officer Haygood having made No Mention of walking across the train yard and then down the Elm Ext, his being ID'd as this cop on the Darnell/Martin Films is either an Egregious Error or like the Warren Report itself, part of the effort to button up the JFK Assassination ASAP. Haygood's WC Testimony is a FACT. He makes No Mention of ever checking out a caboose, train cars, passenger train cars, or helping with crowd control back in the train yard. He also says Nothing about walking down the Elm Ext. Haygood says he spoke with what he "Presumed" was a rail road detective. We see part of this convo in the Cancellare Photo as Haygood stood atop the Triple Underpass. The Cancellare Photo is a FACT. Haygood making that 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle is a FACT. The WC Testimony of James Tague and his detailing that he saw Haygood BACK at his motorcycle at roughly 3:00 AFTER the Kill Shot further supports My Groundbreaking Discovery. Officer Haygood climbed onto the top of Triple Underpass, talked with a "presumed" railroad detective, saw nothing going on, and then went right back to his motorcycle. Tague cements this being the case. And remember, Officer Haygood has BOTH Gloves on in the Cancellare Photo as he stands atop the Triple Underpass. That "NO Glove Cop" in the Darnell/Martin Films is Not Haygood. My challenge stands! 

[Charles Collins]

   Thanks, but I am interested in FACTS. "Logical inferences"?   "BELIEVED to be Haygood" and "Well Before" are Not facts. Same goes for the "Approximate" timeline resulting from the "shadow" work.
   The 12:36 Harkness radio transmission is a Fact, but of course, this would be After the 12:35 radio transmission of Officer Haygood. This is my opinion, but that Murray photo'd White Helmeted cop is the "No Glove Cop". Haygood was Mis-ID'd walking across the train yard, and you are now compounding that Error with your echoing the erroneous Haygood ID on the Murray Photo. Remember,  Murray said it took him 3 minutes alone to just get to his car and retrieve his cameras. Murray now has Only 2 Minutes to get back to Elm St and shoot 4 pics there BEFORE heading down the Elm Ext and taking the Euins photo. And during this same 2 Minute time period, Murray is slowly coming to the realization that shots were fired/ JFK has been shot. Up to this point, Murray thought the pops he heard were fire crackers. Murray is in No Hurry as he walks back from his car and eventually begins taking the 4 photos on Elm St. With Officer Haygood having made No Mention of walking across the train yard and then down the Elm Ext, his being ID'd as this cop on the Darnell/Martin Films is either an Egregious Error or like the Warren Report itself, part of the effort to button up the JFK Assassination ASAP. Haygood's WC Testimony is a FACT. He makes No Mention of ever checking out a caboose, train cars, passenger train cars, or helping with crowd control back in the train yard. He also says Nothing about walking down the Elm Ext. Haygood says he spoke with what he "Presumed" was a rail road detective. We see part of this convo in the Cancellare Photo as Haygood stood atop the Triple Underpass. The Cancellare Photo is a FACT. Haygood making that 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle is a FACT. The WC Testimony of James Tague and his detailing that he saw Haygood BACK at his motorcycle at roughly 3:00 AFTER the Kill Shot further supports My Groundbreaking Discovery. Officer Haygood climbed onto the top of Triple Underpass, talked with a "presumed" railroad detective, saw nothing going on, and then went right back to his motorcycle. Tague cements this being the case. And remember, Officer Haygood has BOTH Gloves on in the Cancellare Photo as he stands atop the Triple Underpass. That "NO Glove Cop" in the Darnell/Martin Films is Not Haygood. My challenge stands!

. "Logical inferences"?   

Yes, absolutely, logical inferences are an essential part of the fact finding process. Here is a snip from a pattern jury instruction regarding this process:

In considering the evidence, you are permitted to draw such reasonable inferences from the testimony and exhibits as you feel are justied in the light of com- mon experience. In other words, you may make deduc- tions and reach conclusions that reason and common sense lead you to draw from the facts which have been established by the evidence.




Courts are interested in finding the truth in order to try to conduct fair trials. Are you interested in finding the truth? Or are you only interested in considering whatever “facts” you think promote your ideas?

If you think the logic or conclusions I presented are faulty, then present your argument against the logic or conclusions. Otherwise:

[Royell Storing]

. "Logical inferences"?   

Yes, absolutely, logical inferences are an essential part of the fact finding process. Here is a snip from a pattern jury instruction regarding this process:

In considering the evidence, you are permitted to draw such reasonable inferences from the testimony and exhibits as you feel are justied in the light of com- mon experience. In other words, you may make deduc- tions and reach conclusions that reason and common sense lead you to draw from the facts which have been established by the evidence.




Courts are interested in finding the truth in order to try to conduct fair trials. Are you interested in finding the truth? Or are you only interested in considering whatever “facts” you think promote your ideas?

If you think the logic or conclusions I presented are faulty, then present your argument against the logic or conclusions. Otherwise:

        ".....from the FACTS which has been established by the EVIDENCE".   This is the Bar to which I hold myself and the foundation of the the Discovery I have established as Now being Fact. The FACT of DPD Motorcycle Officer Haygood making a  12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle at the Elm St curb has NEVER Previously been considered with regard to the timeline of the "No Glove Cop" captured on the Darnell/Martin Films. The FACT of there being Only a 5 Minute Window between the 12:30 Kill Shot and Officer Haygood's 12:35 radio transmission rules Haygood out as being the "No Glove Cop" captured on the Darnell/Martin Films. The WC Testimony of James Tague seeing Officer Haygood BACK at his motorcycle within 3 minutes following the Kill Shot, corroborates Officer Haygood NOT being the "No Glove Cop" filmed by Darnell/Martin back inside the train yard and then walking down the Elm St Ext. My Fact Based Challenge to this Forum stands! 

[Royell Storing]

  And while we are on the subject of Boner ID's, my Discovery/Challenge Stands!! That is Not Officer Haygood on the Darnell/Martin Films.

[Royell Storing]

  I have Proven that the DPD Motorcycle Officer we see on the Darnell and Martin Films is NOT OFFICER HAYGOOD. My putting this Urban Legend to bed after 60+ yrs has resulted in suddenly silencing the entire LN Community that inundates this forum 24/7. My discovery in conjunction with the Knott Labs Laser 360 SCIENCE recently Proving that the SBT "IS IMPOSSIBLE", now provides the foundation for declaring that a Conspiracy was used to assassinate JFK. With respect to my having Proven that Officer Haygood is not the alleged DPD Motorcycle Cop on the Darnell and Martin films, I now ask the suddenly silent LN Community: (1) Specifically WHO is this alleged DPD Cop on the Darnell & Martin Films?, (2) Where is his Motorcycle?, and (3) Why is he wearing Only 1 Glove? (Officer Haygood clearly wore 2 gloves as he stood atop the Triple Underpass on the Cancellare Photo). I await answers to these questions from the "cat got their tongues" LN Community.