They both then made their way to the back of the first floor where they were seen by Vicki Adams less than 60 seconds after the shooting. Seconds later Truly and Baker show up in the same area where Baker reports seeing two white men hanging around.
What, about this scenario, are you having a problem with.
The timing doesn't work. Both with Shelley and Lovelady and the officers surrounding the building.
Your calculations place Adams and Styles on the first floor and going out the back at 35 seconds post shot. Shelley, Lovelady, Baker, and Truly by your estimation are still on the front steps. How does that work? How can they be in two places at the same time?
Dan O--"So, from the moment of the headshot (last shot):
8 seconds pass before Adams sets off.
12.5 seconds to make it from the window to the top of the stairs
15 seconds to make it down to the first floor.
A total of 35.5 seconds for Adams to be on the first floor after the last shot which agrees nicely with her own estimation, given in her WC testimony of less than 60 seconds. This would give Adams enough time to make it down to the first floor and out of the back door before Baker and Truly make it to the elevators."
The officer time stamps also prove the early departure of Adams and Styles is just wrong. Exactly again why do you think this is possible? It is all based on the thought or lack of thought that Shelley and Lovelady deliberately mislead everyone to discredit Adams and Styles, really?
The various timings of people's actual movements in the seconds after the assassination is at the heart of the theory I'm presenting.
Apart from their affidavits, Shelley and Lovelady lied about their movements after the assassination. This has been demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt.
But what were their actual movements?
Your calculations place Adams and Styles on the first floor and going out the back at 35 seconds post shot. Shelley, Lovelady, Baker, and Truly by your estimation are still on the front steps. How does that work? How can they be in two places at the same time?
How can Shelley and Lovelady be on the front steps
and at the back of the first floor at the same time?
How can Shelley and Lovelady reach the area towards the back of the first floor
before Truly and Baker get there?
Particularly if Baker enters the building before Shelley and Lovelady.How can Adams and Styles get down to the first floor and out of the back door before Truly and Baker arrive on the scene?
These are questions that emanate from Jack's post and they have to be addressed.
Firstly, I'd like to clarify a few details with the post:
"Your calculations place Adams and Styles on the first floor and going out the back at 35 seconds post shot."The "calculations" you are referring to were done in Reply#362 [page 46] of the "Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview" thread.
The point of the calculations were to establish how quickly Adams and Styles could have made it down to the first floor after the last shot. The post starts with these words:
"While the Nutters choke on their own 
, let's do a thought experiment.
How fast could Adams and Styles have feasibly made it down to the first floor?
And remember Nutters, this is only a thought experiment."As I make clear, the purpose of the thought experiment was to establish the fastest feasible time for Adams and Styles to get down to the first floor from the fourth floor window after the last shot. It worked out around 35 seconds.
The point is, I am NOT saying that this was the time it was done in - I am saying it was possible to do it that quickly.
Shelley, Lovelady, Baker, and Truly by your estimation are still on the front steps.I am unaware of making the estimation Jack is talking about here.
Jack appears to be implying that somewhere I've estimated that all these men were still on the steps around 35 seconds after the shooting.
This is not true but I understand the point he is making and, as I say, it needs to be addressed.
Above is a still from the Darnell footage.
It shows Baker arriving at the area in front of the TSBD steps. He has just passed Truly, who is facing the other way. He is about to pass Shelley who has just returned from across the Elm Street extension, where he ran into Gloria Calvery coming the other way.
Gloria has also ran back to the steps and is telling those at the steps, including Lovelady, about the shooting. This moment is recounted by Frazier who is stood at the top of the steps looking on.
The question is - how long after the last shot is this Darnell still taken?
Elsewhere I have approximated 20 - 25 seconds, but I'm not really sure. It would help to get a precise figure for this.
So, in our imagination, let's try to run this Darnell image forward and determine how it might look.
According to Molina, Truly arrived in the building 20 - 30 seconds after the shots.
According to Sanders she saw a cop with a white round helmet pass her position on the stairs about 10 seconds after the shooting.
Both witnesses are emphasising how quickly these men got up the steps.
The time trials with Truly and Baker had them entering the building within seconds.
When we look at the image above we can imagine Baker reaching the steps and making his way up to the front door. Truly would have to turn around and then make his way up the same steps, passing Shelley and Lovelady, and into the lobby.
For Vicki Adams to see Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor less than 60 seconds after the last shot, it must be the case that, at the same moment as Truly is making his way towards the lobby, Shelley and Lovelady also make their way into the lobby.
Baker alludes to this when he says:
"As I entered this lobby there were people going in as I entered."In the lobby Baker is asking where the stairs and elevators are. At this point Truly comes up to him and they have a brief conversation.
While Baker is trying to get his bearings and is talking to Truly, Shelley and Lovelady make their way through the lobby into the main part of the first floor (for some reason this really blows Jack's mind, that Shelley and Lovelady could walk through the lobby while Baker was trying to find his bearings and is talking to Truly).
Shelley and Lovelady simply walk by Baker as he is stood in the lobby.
From here Shelley and Lovelady make their way towards the back of the first floor. As they are doing so, Adams and Styles come racing by, Adams shouting out to them about the President.
Adams and Styles cross the space from the stairs to the back door in around 5 seconds.
Seconds later Truly and Baker arrive in the same area where Baker reports seeing two white men who can only be Shelley and Lovelady.
This is the scenario determined by the Darnell footage, the Baker/Truly time trials and the testimony of Vicki Adams. It is represented in the diagram below.
The red line shows the route Adams and Styles took when they reached the first floor.
The red star is the area they encountered the police officer.
The red circle is the area Shelley and Lovelady are stood when Adams calls out to them.
We know Shelley and Lovelady were on the front steps when the shooting occurred (the blue circle). After Shelley returns from across the Elm Street extension it is from this general area they make their way to the back of the first floor. The blue line is an approximation of their route.
Below is my first attempt at a timeline for these first critical seconds. It goes without saying that this is an exercise in SPECULATION.
It starts after the headshot (which marks 0 seconds)
0 - 10 seconds: The limo speeds towards the underpass. Baker sees pigeons fly off the roof and decides to head for the TSBD building. Adams turns to Styles and tells her she wants to find out what's going on. They begin their race downstairs. Shelley runs across the Elm Street extension.
10 - 20 seconds: Dillard takes his pic of the empty 4th floor window. Shelley meets Gloria on the concrete 'spur' that divides the two Elm Streets, and they both head for the TSBD steps. Baker pulls up next to the concrete 'spur'. Adams and Styles are on the stairs.
20 -30 seconds: Baker runs across the Elm Street extension and into the lobby. He is followed into the lobby by Shelley, Lovelady and Truly. Shelley and Lovelady pass through the lobby. Adams and Styles are still on the stairs.
30 - 40 seconds: Baker and Truly talk in the lobby. Shelley and Lovelady make their way towards the back of the first floor. Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, interact with Shelley and Lovelady and exit the back door. Baker and Truly enter the main part of the first floor.
40 - 50 seconds: Adams and Styles make their way to the stairs by the Houston Street dock and run north, turning west towards the railroad yards. Baker and Truly arrive at the elevators. Baker sees Shelley and Lovelady in that area. Truly calls up for the elevator to come down.
50 - 60 seconds: Adams and Styles run into a police officer, "two yards" from the rail tracks, who tells them to go back. Baker and Truly wait for the elevator to come down.
60 - 70 seconds: Adams and Styles ignore the police officer and begin to make their way around the west side of the building to the Elm Street extension. Truly and Baker decide to abandon the elevators and head up the stairs.
70 - 80 seconds: Adams and Styles are still making their way around the west side of the building. Truly and Baker get to the second floor. Baker sees movement through the 'vestibule' door and decides to investigate.
The officer time stamps also prove the early departure of Adams and Styles is just wrong.
It is so irritating, to have to deal with the same falsehood over and over again.
THERE IS NO TIME STAMP OR STATEMENT BY ANY OFFICER THAT REFUTES ADAMS' INSISTENCE THAT SHE LEFT WITHIN SECONDS OF THE LAST SHOT.
Jack fantasises that the officer Adams encountered as she made her way around the building is Harkness.
There is not a single scrap of evidence to support this, it is completely Jack's fantasy but, because he believes it so much he thinks it's a fact.
How he has dragged Sawyer into this fantasy is anybody's guess, even as part of his fantasy it makes no sense.
Barnett is the only officer who potentially has something to offer. Immediately after the shooting he makes his way down Houston street to a point where he can see the east side and the back of the TSBD building. It is fair to say that he is in this area before Adams and Styles exit through the back door and is in a position to see them exit.
However, in the first moments Barnett is totally convinced that the shooter is on top of the building and all his focus is on the top of the building, particularly the fire escape on the east side of the building. In his WC testimony he absolutely clear that he is
not focused on the area of the back door, all his focus is on the roofline of the building.
Mr. Liebeler: There is a door in the back of the Texas School Book Depository. Does it face on Houston or around the corner?
Mr. Barnett: It is around the corner from Houston Street.
Mr. Liebeler: Did you go in the building?
Mr. Barnett: No, sir; I didn't get close to it, because I was watching for a fire escape. If the man was on top, he would have to come down, and I was looking for a fire escape, and I didn't pay much attention to the door.
I was still watching the top of the building, and so far as I could see, the fire escape on the east side was the only escape down .
Mr. Liebeler: Since you surmised that the shots had come from the building, you looked up and you didn't see any windows open. You thought they had been fired from the top of the building?
Mr. Barnett: That's right.
Mr. Liebeler: So you ran around here on Houston Street immediately to the east of the Texas School Book Depository Building and watched the fire escape?
Mr. Barnett: I went 20 foot past the building still on Houston, looking up. I could see the whole back of the building and also the east side of the building.
Once a Nutter has decided on something no amount of evidence or common sense is going to change anything. Jack will carry on spouting this falsehood forever more.
