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Author Topic: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17  (Read 20350 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #120 on: June 11, 2024, 01:24:02 PM »
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I'm going to ignore your usual nonsense and will only reply to two of your comments;

the Police time on the radio was based on constant time checks and was actually the only officially calibrated time!

Utter BS. The clocks used by the dispatchers were not calibrated at all and the time calls were in no way accurate. All you have to do is use a stopwatch and time the times between two calls. Some calls only had 45 seconds between them.


And Tippit's doctor's report was clearly stated as Tippit arriving as DOA(Dead on Arrival) meaning the actual time of death, you do realize, happened some time before he arrived.

More BS.... Davenport confirmed that when Tippit was brought into the hospital the doctors checked for sign of life and when they found none they declared him D.O.A. at 1:15.
But if you want to argue that Tippit was already dead before he arrived at the hospital at 1:15, that's fine by me.


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I'm going to ignore your usual nonsense and will only reply to two of your comments;

No problem, I understand that Conspiracy Theorist's have the same aversion to the evidence in this case as a Vampire has to garlic!

Quote
Utter BS. The clocks used by the dispatchers were not calibrated at all and the time calls were in no way accurate. All you have to do is use a stopwatch and time the times between two calls. Some calls only had 45 seconds between them.

We know that at 12:30 that the Police radio time was the same as the Hertz public clock and I'm guessing that you are going to pathetically suggest that the Hertz public clock and/or the Dallas Police tapes were way off? YAWN!



And since we know that the totally random time at 12:30 was corroborated and spot on, we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.



Quote
More BS.... Davenport confirmed that when Tippit was brought into the hospital the doctors checked for sign of life and when they found none they declared him D.O.A. at 1:15.
But if you want to argue that Tippit was already dead before he arrived at the hospital at 1:15, that's fine by me.

Thanks for confirming that Tippit showed no sign of life when he arrived at the hospital and IIRC, the police officer also said that the Doctors tried bravely to put life back into Tippit.
And all this simply means that since Tippit arrived DOA, the Official Time of Death could NOT have been when Tippit arrived at the hospital because that's scientifically impossible, but was estimated before hand at 1:15, which btw perfectly corresponds to the Dallas Police tapes!

Also, the Ambulance was inquiring some time after the 1:19 time check and wanted to know the address of where Tippit was shot.



Try again!

JohnM
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 02:05:11 PM by John Mytton »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #120 on: June 11, 2024, 01:24:02 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #121 on: June 11, 2024, 01:47:32 PM »
How can I be any more clear?  Let's debate the shooting death of J.D. Tippit and Oswald's relationship to that death.  The entire case, Callaway, Butler, loading the body and everything else.  You'd be worthy, unlike someone like Iacoletti who would spend the entire debate saying things like "Oswald's gun LOL".  I know you'd at least discuss the case, which I can respect.

You. (Martin Weidmann)
Me. (Bill Brown)
Tippit. (R.I.P.)
Oswald. (Scum)
Youtube.
Skype.
This week.
Next week.
Recorded live and then posted here for all to listen to.
Cool?

Hey Bill, it looks like Martin is posting again and seems to want to debate this subject, so this idea of yours sounds really neat.

How about it Martin, how about you get on Skype and debate Bill and show us all why Oswald was "innocent" of shooting Tippit! Thumb1:

JohnM

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #122 on: June 11, 2024, 02:43:51 PM »
Hey Bill, it looks like Martin is posting again and seems to want to debate this subject, so this idea of yours sounds really neat.

How about it Martin, how about you get on Skype and debate Bill and show us all why Oswald was "innocent" of shooting Tippit! Thumb1:

JohnM
But we know the routine: he will say the eyewitness accounts must be dismissed because they are unreliable; the physical evidence must be waved away because it's "possibly" faked or manufactured; and the circumstantial evidence is simply lone nutter speculation. That debate will take all of 15 seconds.

So why is here? Using his arguments how can we reconstruct what happened in Dallas? Or really in any event? Historians should cease their work, police investigations ended since everything they do can be based on "possibly" erroneous information. That "possibly" covers a lot of ground, doesn't it?

Notice again that the above standards are never applied to the conspiracy theories. I had a thread on the Mexico City/Oswald double allegation. Did he challenge the conspiracy claims, that Oswald was impersonated? No, he was upset that the claim was refuted by lone nutters and used to implicate Oswald in the assassination.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 03:42:27 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #122 on: June 11, 2024, 02:43:51 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #123 on: June 11, 2024, 05:55:08 PM »
No problem, I understand that Conspiracy Theorist's have the same aversion to the evidence in this case as a Vampire has to garlic!

We know that at 12:30 that the Police radio time was the same as the Hertz public clock and I'm guessing that you are going to pathetically suggest that the Hertz public clock and/or the Dallas Police tapes were way off? YAWN!



And since we know that the totally random time at 12:30 was corroborated and spot on, we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.



Thanks for confirming that Tippit showed no sign of life when he arrived at the hospital and IIRC, the police officer also said that the Doctors tried bravely to put life back into Tippit.
And all this simply means that since Tippit arrived DOA, the Official Time of Death could NOT have been when Tippit arrived at the hospital because that's scientifically impossible, but was estimated before hand at 1:15, which btw perfectly corresponds to the Dallas Police tapes!

Also, the Ambulance was inquiring some time after the 1:19 time check and wanted to know the address of where Tippit was shot.



Try again!

JohnM


And since we know that the totally random time at 12:30 was corroborated and spot on, we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.



Hilarious. There is not a shred of proof that the clock on top of the TSBD was correct to the second or even minute.


we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.

Really? I think you mean after 1:16.

But how did you come to this conclusion when the DPD recordings were not continuously and there was a break of several minutes 1:11 or 1:12?

Thanks for confirming that Tippit showed no sign of life when he arrived at the hospital and IIRC, the police officer also said that the Doctors tried bravely to put life back into Tippit.
And all this simply means that since Tippit arrived DOA, the Official Time of Death could NOT have been when Tippit arrived at the hospital because that's scientifically impossible, but was estimated before hand at 1:15, which btw perfectly corresponds to the Dallas Police tapes!


More BS... the DPD tapes do not give a time for Tippit being killed. And yes, he most likely died at the scene at 10th street before the ambulance arrived there. Having said that, his passing was formally confirmed by the doctors at the hospital who wrote down the time of 1:15 for the DOA. In order for Tippit to get to the hospital at 1:15 he must have been shot at least three to four minutes earlier, or do you perhaps believe that he was transported to the hospital on a high speed magic carpet?

Also, the Ambulance was inquiring some time after the 1:19 time check and wanted to know the address of where Tippit was shot.

According to the highly questionable DPD radio time stamps which does not explain how Tippit's ambulance could have arrived at the hospital at or even before 1:15, as confirmed by several police and hospital reports.

Care to try again?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 08:16:33 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #124 on: June 11, 2024, 05:58:39 PM »
Hey Bill, it looks like Martin is posting again and seems to want to debate this subject, so this idea of yours sounds really neat.

How about it Martin, how about you get on Skype and debate Bill and show us all why Oswald was "innocent" of shooting Tippit! Thumb1:

JohnM

Where did I ever say that Oswald was innocent (or guilty for that matter) of shooting Tippit?

I don't give a damn if he did it or not. I just examine the evidence that the WC used to claim that he was guilty and am finding it highly dubious.

You might not like that, and claim that my posts show that I believe Oswald was innocent but that's just the most pathetic LN argument you frequently use.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 06:21:39 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #124 on: June 11, 2024, 05:58:39 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #125 on: June 11, 2024, 06:13:26 PM »
But we know the routine: he will say the eyewitness accounts must be dismissed because they are unreliable; the physical evidence must be waved away because it's "possibly" faked or manufactured; and the circumstantial evidence is simply lone nutter speculation. That debate will take all of 15 seconds.

So why is here? Using his arguments how can we reconstruct what happened in Dallas? Or really in any event? Historians should cease their work, police investigations ended since everything they do can be based on "possibly" erroneous information. That "possibly" covers a lot of ground, doesn't it?

Notice again that the above standards are never applied to the conspiracy theories. I had a thread on the Mexico City/Oswald double allegation. Did he challenge the conspiracy claims, that Oswald was impersonated? No, he was upset that the claim was refuted by lone nutters and used to implicate Oswald in the assassination.

Stop being histerical. Instead of constantly complaining about people who disagree with you, why don't you try for once to discuss evidence honestly and with an open mind?

But we know the routine: he will say the eyewitness accounts must be dismissed because they are unreliable

I never said anything of the kind. But eyewitness account do need corroboration. You simply can not rely on what one eyewitness says. If five people watch a car accident, you will get five different accounts. That's how it works, regardless if you like it or not>

the physical evidence must be waved away because it's "possibly" faked or manufactured;

Wrong again. Physical evidence needs to be autheticated before it can be accepted.

and the circumstantial evidence is simply lone nutter speculation.

Once again totally wrong. Circumstantial evidence is always specultion. It is has nothing to do with lone nutters!

The biggest problem with trying to discuss this case with an LN is the simple fact that just about every LN will refuse to concede anything that does not compute with their precious "evidence".

Can you, for example, accept that it is at least somewhat concerning that a jacket described as being white in several DPD radio broadcast by officers who actually saw it in full sunlight, became gray as soon as it resurfaced at DPD HQ with initials on it of officers who were never involved in the chain of custody? I seriously doubt it.

I, on the other hand, have no problem accepting that the BY photos are most likely real and that Oswald's departure from the TSBD doesn't bode well for him not being involved in some way.

You can not have a discussion when one party ignores and dismisses what the other says and just keeps on repeating his own talking points without (for the most part) backing them up with actual evidence.

Btw I don't expect an honest answer from you.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 11:30:30 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #126 on: June 12, 2024, 01:49:46 AM »

And since we know that the totally random time at 12:30 was corroborated and spot on, we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.



Hilarious. There is not a shred of proof that the clock on top of the TSBD was correct to the second or even minute.


we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.

Really? I think you mean after 1:16.

But how did you come to this conclusion when the DPD recordings were not continuously and there was a break of several minutes 1:11 or 1:12?

Thanks for confirming that Tippit showed no sign of life when he arrived at the hospital and IIRC, the police officer also said that the Doctors tried bravely to put life back into Tippit.
And all this simply means that since Tippit arrived DOA, the Official Time of Death could NOT have been when Tippit arrived at the hospital because that's scientifically impossible, but was estimated before hand at 1:15, which btw perfectly corresponds to the Dallas Police tapes!


More BS... the DPD tapes do not give a time for Tippit being killed. And yes, he most likely died at the scene at 10th street before the ambulance arrived there. Having said that, his passing was formally confirmed by the doctors at the hospital who wrote down the time of 1:15 for the DOA. In order for Tippit to get to the hospital at 1:15 he must have been shot at least three to four minutes earlier, or do you perhaps believe that he was transported to the hospital on a high speed magic carpet?

Also, the Ambulance was inquiring some time after the 1:19 time check and wanted to know the address of where Tippit was shot.

According to the highly questionable DPD radio time stamps which does not explain how Tippit's ambulance could have arrived at the hospital at or even before 1:15, as confirmed by several police and hospital reports.

Care to try again?

Quote
Hilarious. There is not a shred of proof that the clock on top of the TSBD was correct to the second or even minute.

Wow, talk about delusional!
First of all, it's up to you not me, to prove any inaccuracy of a public clock which thousands and thousands of citizens relied upon!!
Do you have a single piece of evidence to suggest that the Hertz public clock was off the City Hall time by 1 second or even a minute?
Surely in the decades of operation of the Hertz you could provide at least 1 example where the time on this public clock was proven wrong?

Anyway, at least now we're getting somewhere, you must agree that the corroborated time of the Hertz clock and the Police Radio time are at the most a minute or so off real time. Which in this case BTW doesn't bode well for your Tippit murder times. Oops

Quote
we know that the police radio to report Tippit being shot was timed checked AFTER 12:16 PM.

Really? I think you mean after 1:16.

But how did you come to this conclusion when the DPD recordings were not continuously and there was a break of several minutes 1:11 or 1:12?

I seriously don't believe that this even needs explaining, the despatcher looked at the clock and saw the time as being 1:16 and gave a verbal time check as 1:16, which according to Bowles could understandably be a minute or so off actual time, therefore everything said after this time check and before the next time check was, a minute or so off the actual time of 1:16. See how easy this is, even a child could understand!

Quote
...his passing was formally confirmed by the doctors at the hospital who wrote down the time of 1:15 for the DOA. In order for Tippit to get to the hospital at 1:15 he must have been shot at least three to four minutes earlier, or do you perhaps believe that he was transported to the hospital on a high speed magic carpet?

Take a close look at Rose's report, nowhere does it say that Tippit arrived at the hospital at 1:15! Doh!
The areas on the document where the DOA is written and the actual time of death are in two completely unconnected different sections.
The document does say that Tippit arrived DOA and then the certificate also specifically says the actual time of death was 1:15.
For instance, if someone dies overnight and arrives at the hospital/morgue Dead On Arrival in the morning at 9AM, the time of death obviously isn't 9AM but the Doctor will base the actual time of death on a number of factors, of when he estimates that the actual time of death actually happened.



Oh, and one last comment on the actual time of when Oswald shot Tippit, is so far from your perspective, you have inadvertently painted yourself into an inescapable corner, because you question the time on the huge Hertz public clock, you don't believe the Police Tape clocks, you put your faith in what you personally call a "screwball" and your interpretation of the time of death in the case of a DOA is not consistent with reality.
So what have you got left?, some cherry picked guessed times, all the while you conveniently omit these following guessed times and then you have the gall to say, "I don't give a damn if he did it or not". You can't make this up!

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light—colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light—colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.

BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Mrs. Virginia Davis, w/m/16 [sic], of 400 E. 10th WH-3-8120 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
"Today November 22, 1963 about 1:30 pm my sister-in-law and myself were lying down in our apartment. My sister-in-law is Jeanette Davis, we live in the same house in different apartments. We heard a shot and then another shot and ran to the side door at Patton Street."

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas.

ROBERT BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was employed as a mechanic at Roger Ballew Texaco Service Station, 600 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. He advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, November 22, 1963, a young white man passed him, BROCK and his wife, and proceeded north past the Texaco Service Station into the parking lot, at which time the individual disappeared.

Mr. DULLES. What time was this, approximately, as far as you can recall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Around 1:20 in the afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Will you please state then what happened, what you saw, what you did, what you heard?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I first seen the police car cruising east.[/]

Quote
Care to try again?

Wow, I've just proven that your level of self delusion is staggered beyond belief and you say that I need to try again? Hahahahahahahaha!

JohnM
« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 06:26:52 AM by John Mytton »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #127 on: June 12, 2024, 05:27:01 AM »
Where did I ever say that Oswald was innocent (or guilty for that matter) of shooting Tippit?

I don't give a damn if he did it or not. I just examine the evidence that the WC used to claim that he was guilty and am finding it highly dubious.

You might not like that, and claim that my posts show that I believe Oswald was innocent but that's just the most pathetic LN argument you frequently use.

Hey that's Awesome Martin, so you shouldn't have any trouble debating Bill Brown on the reasons why you believe the evidence is "highly dubious"
When can we expect your commitment to debate Bill face to face on Skype?

JohnM

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #127 on: June 12, 2024, 05:27:01 AM »