Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
Sean Kneringer, Martin Weidmann

Author Topic: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17  (Read 12461 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7439
Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #128 on: June 12, 2024, 06:57:56 PM »
Advertisement
Wow, talk about delusional!
First of all, it's up to you not me, to prove any inaccuracy of a public clock which thousands and thousands of citizens relied upon!!
Do you have a single piece of evidence to suggest that the Hertz public clock was off the City Hall time by 1 second or even a minute?
Surely in the decades of operation of the Hertz you could provide at least 1 example where the time on this public clock was proven wrong?

Anyway, at least now we're getting somewhere, you must agree that the corroborated time of the Hertz clock and the Police Radio time are at the most a minute or so off real time. Which in this case BTW doesn't bode well for your Tippit murder times. Oops

I seriously don't believe that this even needs explaining, the despatcher looked at the clock and saw the time as being 1:16 and gave a verbal time check as 1:16, which according to Bowles could understandably be a minute or so off actual time, therefore everything said after this time check and before the next time check was, a minute or so off the actual time of 1:16. See how easy this is, even a child could understand!

Take a close look at Rose's report, nowhere does it say that Tippit arrived at the hospital at 1:15! Doh!
The areas on the document where the DOA is written and the actual time of death are in two completely unconnected different sections.
The document does say that Tippit arrived DOA and then the certificate also specifically says the actual time of death was 1:15.
For instance, if someone dies overnight and arrives at the hospital/morgue Dead On Arrival in the morning at 9AM, the time of death obviously isn't 9AM but the Doctor will base the actual time of death on a number of factors, of when he estimates that the actual time of death actually happened.



Oh, and one last comment on the actual time of when Oswald shot Tippit, is so far from your perspective, you have inadvertently painted yourself into an inescapable corner, because you question the time on the huge Hertz public clock, you don't believe the Police Tape clocks, you put your faith in what you personally call a "screwball" and your interpretation of the time of death in the case of a DOA is not consistent with reality.
So what have you got left?, some cherry picked guessed times, all the while you conveniently omit these following guessed times and then you have the gall to say, "I don't give a damn if he did it or not". You can't make this up!

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light—colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light—colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.

BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Mrs. Virginia Davis, w/m/16 [sic], of 400 E. 10th WH-3-8120 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
"Today November 22, 1963 about 1:30 pm my sister-in-law and myself were lying down in our apartment. My sister-in-law is Jeanette Davis, we live in the same house in different apartments. We heard a shot and then another shot and ran to the side door at Patton Street."

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas.

ROBERT BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was employed as a mechanic at Roger Ballew Texaco Service Station, 600 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. He advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, November 22, 1963, a young white man passed him, BROCK and his wife, and proceeded north past the Texaco Service Station into the parking lot, at which time the individual disappeared.

Mr. DULLES. What time was this, approximately, as far as you can recall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Around 1:20 in the afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Will you please state then what happened, what you saw, what you did, what you heard?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I first seen the police car cruising east.[/]

Wow, I've just proven that your level of self delusion is staggered beyond belief and you say that I need to try again? Hahahahahahahaha!

JohnM

First of all, it's up to you not me, to prove any inaccuracy of a public clock which thousands and thousands of citizens relied upon!!
Do you have a single piece of evidence to suggest that the Hertz public clock was off the City Hall time by 1 second or even a minute?


Oh no you don't. You don't get to make a claim about the Hertz clock being 100% correct and then say that I have to prove you wrong. That's typical LN crap which makes it an exercise in futility to try to have a normal conversation with you.

you must agree that the corroborated time of the Hertz clock and the Police Radio time are at the most a minute or so off real time

I must do no such thing.

I seriously don't believe that this even needs explaining, the despatcher looked at the clock and saw the time as being 1:16 and gave a verbal time check as 1:16, which according to Bowles could understandably be a minute or so off actual time, therefore everything said after this time check and before the next time check was, a minute or so off the actual time of 1:16. See how easy this is, even a child could understand!

Hilarious... Bowles said much more than that. For instance that the dispatchers clocks were not reset as often as they should be when radio traffic was busy. He also said that the dispatchers clocks were reset using a master clock at the DPD building, which in turn did not reflect real time.

Take a close look at Rose's report, nowhere does it say that Tippit arrived at the hospital at 1:15! Doh!

Rose's report? I think you mean the authorized permit for autopsy. You don't even know the difference between a report and an authorization?

The areas on the document where the DOA is written and the actual time of death are in two completely unconnected different sections.
The document does say that Tippit arrived DOA and then the certificate also specifically says the actual time of death was 1:15.


You can't be this stupid. On the left side it says under the line "Place of death" (which is DOA Methodist Hospital) and on the right it says "Date and time of death" which is 1:15 PM November 22, 1963.

But I never mentioned Rose. You might want to look up the report made by officers Davenport and Bardin, who actually were at the hospital when Tippit was declared DOA at 1:15 PM.

Wow, I've just proven that your level of self delusion is staggered beyond belief and you say that I need to try again? Hahahahahahahaha!

My level of so called self delusion is minute compared to your absurd delusion of grandeur.

And with that I end the "discussion" and go back to ignoring you. Try selling your BS to somebody else.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 06:59:30 PM by Martin Weidmann »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #128 on: June 12, 2024, 06:57:56 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #129 on: June 12, 2024, 07:24:52 PM »
How could it be plausible that the other “1:30” witnesses saw Oswald  somewhere else if Oswald was at Brewers store  also at 1:30?

The other Davis sister and Callaway said the time was around 1:00pm when they heard the shots.

It can’t be 1:30 anyway because that would be way off the 1:16 time that LNs claim for Bowley making a call on Tippits radio and the ambulance would have arrived at the hospital not any earlier than 1:35. There is  no record to support a 1:35 time, as opposed to the DOA document which confirms  the 1:15 time Tippit arrived at the hospital.

At the line up , They all ( except maybe Markams confusion) picked out Oswald dressed in only a T-shirt and looking disheveled with cut over his eye vs the other men in suits and combed hair so…reasonable doubt?

Scoggins 1:20 estimate of hearing shots can’t be right either If the LNs are dedicated to a 1:16 time stamp for Bowleys radio call from Tippits car.

On the other hand even a “kook” like Markam was probably able to remember the clock she had just seen when she left her house, even if she was  a little confused in her WC testimony answering whether she had ever seen Oswald before , which she misconstrued that ? To mean had she seen Oswald anytime before seeing him at the Tippit scene., so she answered “no” (at first ) until she finally declared that the “no.2” man in the line up ( Oswald) was the man she had seen at 10th and Patton at approx 1:06-1:07 and also saw this man shoot  Tippit after just a short conversation with Tiipit at his car , which means probably by 1:08 the shooting occurred.

Imo it’s improbable that people like Markam who checked their clock before leaving their house  and  Bowley (an engineer) checked their watch which they wore on their wrist, are the sort of people who would be sloppy enough to allow their clocks to run 6 minutes slow. (If anything, they more likely would have their clocks and watches set FAST by a couple minutes )

Sloppy time keeping Is more typical of people like me who do NOT wear watches and do NOT have a regular schedule requiring to be at work or having to pick up children “on time” and where time is not as important a part of their typical day 🙂

Offline Bill Brown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1795
Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #130 on: June 12, 2024, 08:37:07 PM »
At the line up , They all ( except maybe Markams confusion) picked out Oswald dressed in only a T-shirt and looking disheveled with cut over his eye vs the other men in suits and combed hair so…reasonable doubt?

No.

None of the lineup participants were wearing suits.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #130 on: June 12, 2024, 08:37:07 PM »


Offline Michael Capasse

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #131 on: June 12, 2024, 10:37:05 PM »
Suit jacket, or a red vest or a button down sweater, all 3 had collared shirts.
https://jfk.boards.net/post/7689


« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 10:39:15 PM by Michael Capasse »

Offline Bill Brown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1795
Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #132 on: June 12, 2024, 11:29:15 PM »
Suit jacket, or a red vest or a button down sweater, all 3 had collared shirts.
https://jfk.boards.net/post/7689

But no suits, right?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #132 on: June 12, 2024, 11:29:15 PM »


Offline Michael Capasse

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #133 on: June 13, 2024, 12:16:28 AM »
I guess a suit jacket was nice enough not to be chosen.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 12:18:41 AM by Michael Capasse »

Offline Zeon Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #134 on: June 14, 2024, 12:20:35 AM »
Well ok Bill , you are more the expert than I am, so There must be a fake image when you type in something like “Oswald’s line up “ in the search on the Bing browser , and then check images. Theres an image which has Oswald in just T- shirt flanked  on either side by 2 taller men wearing suit and tie, (I kid you not) and the no 4 guy at the end has a nice collar short sleeve sports shirt.

So that’s my mistake  about “suit and tie” unless  somebody else can confirm that image as valid.

 However, there is still  Gil Jesus examination of the line ups which cause some reason to doubt if all the witness would have chosen Oswald if there were 3 other men with disheveled look and a similar bruise or cut and ALL were wearing only  white T-shirts and all were the same age( no teenagers ) as Oswald.

And each witness separately view the lineup individually and without any knowledge of whom
other witnesses picked until after the lineups were concluded.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #134 on: June 14, 2024, 12:20:35 AM »


Online John Mytton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4274
Re: T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17
« Reply #135 on: June 14, 2024, 10:06:12 AM »
Well ok Bill , you are more the expert than I am, so There must be a fake image when you type in something like “Oswald’s line up “ in the search on the Bing browser , and then check images. Theres an image which has Oswald in just T- shirt flanked  on either side by 2 taller men wearing suit and tie, (I kid you not) and the no 4 guy at the end has a nice collar short sleeve sports shirt.

So that’s my mistake  about “suit and tie” unless  somebody else can confirm that image as valid.

 However, there is still  Gil Jesus examination of the line ups which cause some reason to doubt if all the witness would have chosen Oswald if there were 3 other men with disheveled look and a similar bruise or cut and ALL were wearing only  white T-shirts and all were the same age( no teenagers ) as Oswald.

And each witness separately view the lineup individually and without any knowledge of whom
other witnesses picked until after the lineups were concluded.

You can't honestly expect clones, the lineups were alright.



The following guys all look the same height and weight. If anything Oswald and all the guys had different clothes, so no one uniquely stood out. In fact Oswald looked nothing like he did at the time he murdered Tippit and this surely gave him an advantage. And don't forget we aren't talking about some murder in a dark alley, this was outside in full on daylight and a stack of eyewitnesses all got a decent look at the guy with a gun.



The image you saw on the net was based on a Commission Exhibit with a manipulated too small Oswald.





For comparison, some other Line-ups.





JohnM