T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17

[Zeon Mason]

The Texas theater was kind of SW of Oswald’s boarding house.

So if Oswald was  the shooter at 10th and Patton , he got there (if walking) NOT actually heading SW when he left the boarding house, instead he was going more  in a SE direction which is going away from the theater.

So there might be an alternate motive if Ruby was involved in having set up Oswald , like say having paid Oswald $200 Thursday afternoon to “deliver the special package” on Friday morning to the TSBD loading dock.

( postulate here is that Oswald had been paid on previous occasions working thru Ruby to deliver packages of drugs to the TSBD loading dock annex building where they got distributed to neighboring “consumers”.)

Oswald figured out he had been set up after shots fired from TSBD, and he went home asap to get his pistol , then head to Rubys house which was SE of Oswald’s boarding house.

[Richard Smith]

The Texas theater was kind of SW of Oswald’s boarding house.

So if Oswald was  the shooter at 10th and Patton , he got there (if walking) NOT actually heading SW when he left the boarding house, instead he was going more  in a SE direction which is going away from the theater.

So there might be an alternate motive if Ruby was involved in having set up Oswald , like say having paid Oswald $200 Thursday afternoon to “deliver the special package” on Friday morning to the TSBD loading dock.

( postulate here is that Oswald had been paid on previous occasions working thru Ruby to deliver packages of drugs to the TSBD loading dock annex building where they got distributed to neighboring “consumers”.)

Oswald figured out he had been set up after shots fired from TSBD, and he went home asap to get his pistol , then head to Rubys house which was SE of Oswald’s boarding house.

That's some far out fiction.  It's unfortunate, however, that there is not a single iota of evidence to support any of this.  But I'll play along.  How exactly did Oswald figure out in this scenario that he had been set up as an assassin after the shots were fired?  You have him involved in some type of petty drug transaction.  He would have no apparent reason to believe that he could be linked to a murder.   Why even go through this charade if Ruby was ultimately willing to commit murder and go to prison for the rest of his life?  Why not cut out the middle-man and just have Ruby assassinate JFK?

[Zeon Mason]

@Richard:
You are right, I should not have speculated that  Oswald’s reason to return to his boarding house asap was to get his revolver, let alone to head out to Rubys house located SE of Oswalds boarding house.

Its just  seems odd to me  that Oswald’s heading SE to get to 10th and Patton was not exactly the most direct route to take if Oswald was intending to go to a theater that’s located SW of the boarding house.

Since Frazier described the bag length as 2 feet plus or minus a couple of inches , then something else must have been in the bag other than a disassembled (34.5”) MC rifle.

Questions

1.So what could be in the bag and why was Oswald carrying it into  TSBD loading dock annex building yet NOT apparently into TSBD building itself, since Jack Dougherty saw nothing in Oswald’s hands when Oswald entered the door to TSBD?

2.Why were  Oswald and Ruby seen together on several occasions ?

3. How did Oswald manage to have as much as $200 cash on his person by Thursday night?

These are questions that led me to suggest Oswald involved in drug trafficking thru Ruby mafia connections and therefore it’s a possibility that the  reason Ruby shot Oswald in front of cameras no less, was because Oswald had become too much of a liability connecting Mafia to drugs and  to the JFK assassination as well.

The mafia was already under investigation by RFK and having one boss known to have made remark such as “cutting the head of the snake off” , it’s not so implausible to  consider that Ruby HAD to shot Oswald asap especially after Oswald was arrested and charged with shooting Tippit and under suspicion of having shot JFK.

[Richard Smith]

@Richard:
You are right, I should not have speculated that  Oswald’s reason to return to his boarding house asap was to get his revolver, let alone to head out to Rubys house located SE of Oswalds boarding house.

Its just  seems odd to me  that Oswald’s heading SE to get to 10th and Patton was not exactly the most direct route to take if Oswald was intending to go to a theater that’s located SW of the boarding house.

Since Frazier described the bag length as 2 feet plus or minus a couple of inches , then something else must have been in the bag other than a disassembled (34.5”) MC rifle.

Questions

1.So what could be in the bag and why was Oswald carrying it into  TSBD loading dock annex building yet NOT apparently into TSBD building itself, since Jack Dougherty saw nothing in Oswald’s hands when Oswald entered the door to TSBD?

2.Why were  Oswald and Ruby seen together on several occasions ?

3. How did Oswald manage to have as much as $200 cash on his person by Thursday night?

These are questions that led me to suggest Oswald involved in drug trafficking thru Ruby mafia connections and therefore it’s a possibility that the  reason Ruby shot Oswald in front of cameras no less, was because Oswald had become too much of a liability connecting Mafia to drugs and  to the JFK assassination as well.

The mafia was already under investigation by RFK and having one boss known to have made remark such as “cutting the head of the snake off” , it’s not so implausible to  consider that Ruby HAD to shot Oswald asap especially after Oswald was arrested and charged with shooting Tippit and under suspicion of having shot JFK.

There is no reason to believe that Oswald intended to go to the Texas Theatre.   That's like claiming the Boston bomber planned to end up in a boat in someone's backyard.  I think Oswald was trying to get a particular bus.  There are some good FBI materials explaining the nearby bus routes.   If he had any plan - and there wasn't a good one under the circumstances - it would have been to get out of Dallas likely heading to Mexico.   After the Tippit encounter, however, Oswald was simply in flight.   Moving in any direction still available.  And the theatre was just a matter of necessity with the police closing in.  In terms of the bag, Frazier was simply off in his estimate of its length.  There are lots of reasons to support that conclusion.   No bag matching Frazier's description was ever found, a longer bag with Oswald's prints was found, Oswald denied carrying any long bag or curtain rods rendering his story to Frazier suspect etc.

[Martin Weidmann]

There is no reason to believe that Oswald intended to go to the Texas Theatre.   That's like claiming the Boston bomber planned to end up in a boat in someone's backyard.  I think Oswald was trying to get a particular bus.  There are some good FBI materials explaining the nearby bus routes.   If he had any plan - and there wasn't a good one under the circumstances - it would have been to get out of Dallas likely heading to Mexico.   After the Tippit encounter, however, Oswald was simply in flight.   Moving in any direction still available.  And the theatre was just a matter of necessity with the police closing in.  In terms of the bag, Frazier was simply off in his estimate of its length.  There are lots of reasons to support that conclusion.   No bag matching Frazier's description was ever found, a longer bag with Oswald's prints was found, Oswald denied carrying any long bag or curtain rods rendering his story to Frazier suspect etc.

If he had any plan - and there wasn't a good one under the circumstances - it would have been to get out of Dallas likely heading to Mexico.

Really? And that's why he ended up walking east on a go nowhere suburban street where there are no bus stops whatsoever? Do you not understand just how stupid this makes you look?

There are some good FBI materials explaining the nearby bus routes.

Those "nearby bus routes" were all on Jefferson, so why in the world would Oswald not simply have walked down N. Crawford street to get to the bus stops instead of turning left onto 10th street? You entire argument, as per usual, makes no sense.

In terms of the bag, Frazier was simply off in his estimate of its length.  There are lots of reasons to support that conclusion.

There is not a shred of evidence to conclude that Frazier was off in his estimate of the bag. And there are no valid reasons to support such a conclusion. It's all wishful thinking on your part.

No bag matching Frazier's description was ever found,

So what? Did they even search for it? Did they even ask Oswald what he did with the bag he carried into the TSBD? And if they did, why is that (and his answer) not in the interrogator's reports?

a longer bag with Oswald's prints was found,

"Found" at his place of work, at a location he would be everyday and made out of TSBD packaging materials. There is no evidence whatsoever it ever contained a rifle or that it ever left the TSBD.

Oswald denied carrying any long bag or curtain rods rendering his story to Frazier suspect etc.

The interrogators claimed Oswald denied carrying a "long bag", but what exactly is a "long bag"? Did the interrogators give him dimensions or some sort of description? Or did they simply ask about "a long bag", whatever that would have meant to Oswald?

As for the curtain rods story, there is at least one other plausible explanation for it; Oswald simply used it to explain his trip to Irving instead of having to tell his 19 year old co-worker about his marital problems.

You really have got nothing conclusive, Smith, and are blowing hot air once again.

[Bill Brown]

If he had any plan - and there wasn't a good one under the circumstances - it would have been to get out of Dallas likely heading to Mexico.

Really? And that's why he ended up walking east on a go nowhere suburban street where there are no bus stops whatsoever? Do you not understand just how stupid this makes you look?

There are some good FBI materials explaining the nearby bus routes.

Those "nearby bus routes" were all on Jefferson, so why in the world would Oswald not simply have walked down N. Crawford street to get to the bus stops instead of turning left onto 10th street? You entire argument, as per usual, makes no sense.

In terms of the bag, Frazier was simply off in his estimate of its length.  There are lots of reasons to support that conclusion.

There is not a shred of evidence to conclude that Frazier was off in his estimate of the bag. And there are no valid reasons to support such a conclusion. It's all wishful thinking on your part.

No bag matching Frazier's description was ever found,

So what? Did they even search for it? Did they even ask Oswald what he did with the bag he carried into the TSBD? And if they did, why is that (and his answer) not in the interrogator's reports?

a longer bag with Oswald's prints was found,

"Found" at his place of work, at a location he would be everyday and made out of TSBD packaging materials. There is no evidence whatsoever it ever contained a rifle or that it ever left the TSBD.

Oswald denied carrying any long bag or curtain rods rendering his story to Frazier suspect etc.

The interrogators claimed Oswald denied carrying a "long bag", but what exactly is a "long bag"? Did the interrogators give him dimensions or some sort of description? Or did they simply ask about "a long bag", whatever that would have meant to Oswald?

As for the curtain rods story, there is at least one other plausible explanation for it; Oswald simply used it to explain his trip to Irving instead of having to tell his 19 year old co-worker about his marital problems.

You really have got nothing conclusive, Smith, and are blowing hot air once again.

Really? And that's why he ended up walking east on a go nowhere suburban street where there are no bus stops whatsoever? Do you not understand just how stupid this makes you look?

Those "nearby bus routes" were all on Jefferson, so why in the world would Oswald not simply have walked down N. Crawford street to get to the bus stops instead of turning left onto 10th street? You entire argument, as per usual, makes no sense.

The nearest transfer point in Oak Cliff on the Marsalis line (which is the line that the transfer was good for) was at Jefferson Blvd., roughly three blocks away from the site of the Tippit shooting scene.  Oswald, if he were walking east on Tenth, was heading in that exact direction.

If you familiarize yourself with a street map of the area, you'd know that going all the way down Crawford to Jefferson and then "simply" walking east on Jefferson to the bus stop would include serious backtracking along Jefferson, since Jefferson bends drastically back north.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with a map of the area before telling Richard Smith that he looks stupid? 

[Martin Weidmann]

The nearest transfer point in Oak Cliff on the Marsalis line (which is the line that the transfer was good for) was at Jefferson Blvd., roughly three blocks away from the site of the Tippit shooting scene.  Oswald, if he were walking east on Tenth, was heading in that exact direction.

If you familiarize yourself with a street map of the area, you'd know that going all the way down Crawford to Jefferson and then "simply" walking east on Jefferson to the bus stop would include serious backtracking along Jefferson, since Jefferson bends drastically back north.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with a map of the area before telling Richard Smith that he looks stupid?

The nearest transfer point in Oak Cliff on the Marsalis line (which is the line that the transfer was good for) was at Jefferson Blvd., roughly three blocks away from the site of the Tippit shooting scene.  Oswald, if he were walking east on Tenth, was heading in that exact direction.

Markham saw Tippit's killer walking east and crossing Patton Ave. This means that he would have turned left onto 10th street from Crawford street, which makes no sense if he was walking to the Marsalis bus stop as it would be a long way around. A far better and shorter route would have been East Davis street and turn left on either South Patton ave or North Denver street.

But there isn't a shred of evidence that Oswald was walking to a Marsalis line bus stop on Jefferson. It's pure speculation on your part and Richard Smith never mentioned the Marsalis line bus stop at all.

So, just like Richard Smith, you've got nothing conclusive.


Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with a map of the area before telling Richard Smith that he looks stupid?

Perhaps you should be a bit less condescending and not misrepresent my actual response to Richard Smith in a vain attempt to score a pathetic point.

If he had any plan - and there wasn't a good one under the circumstances - it would have been to get out of Dallas likely heading to Mexico.

Really? And that's why he ended up walking east on a go nowhere suburban street where there are no bus stops whatsoever? Do you not understand just how stupid this makes you look?

If, as Richard said, Oswald wanted to get out of Dallas quickly, then it doesn't make a bit of sense for him to end up on a go nowhere suburban street with no bus stops at all.

That was the point I made. But I'm not surprised you tried to twist it into something else.

[Bill Brown]

The nearest transfer point in Oak Cliff on the Marsalis line (which is the line that the transfer was good for) was at Jefferson Blvd., roughly three blocks away from the site of the Tippit shooting scene.  Oswald, if he were walking east on Tenth, was heading in that exact direction.

Markham saw Tippit's killer walking east and crossing Patton Ave. This means that he would have turned left onto 10th street from Crawford street, which makes no sense if he was walking to the Marsalis bus stop as it would be a long way around. A far better and shorter route would have been East Davis street and turn left on either South Patton ave or North Denver street.

But there isn't a shred of evidence that Oswald was walking to a Marsalis line bus stop on Jefferson. It's pure speculation on your part and Richard Smith never mentioned the Marsalis line bus stop at all.

So, just like Richard Smith, you've got nothing conclusive.


Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with a map of the area before telling Richard Smith that he looks stupid?

Perhaps you should be a bit less condescending and not misrepresent my actual response to Richard Smith in a vain attempt to score a pathetic point.

If, as Richard said, Oswald wanted to get out of Dallas quickly, then it doesn't make a bit of sense for him to end up on a go nowhere suburban street with no bus stops at all.

That was the point I made. But I'm not surprised you tried to twist it into something else.

But there isn't a shred of evidence that Oswald was walking to a Marsalis line bus stop on Jefferson. It's pure speculation on your part...

Goofy.  I didn't speculate.  I stated a fact.

If, as Richard said, Oswald wanted to get out of Dallas quickly, then it doesn't make a bit of sense for him to end up on a go nowhere suburban street with no bus stops at all.

That was the point I made. But I'm not surprised you tried to twist it into something else.

I have news for you, Jackass... IF Oswald wanted to get to Jefferson and Marsalis, he was walking pretty much the most direct line to that point from the rooming house and that most direct line included taking Tenth Street from Crawford to the area of Marsalis and Jefferson.  That was my point and it is not speculation, it is a fact.  Look at a damn map.