The 3 Minute Lie

[Dan O'meara]

A few replies back I posted this passage from the conclusions of the Warren Commission:

"Shelley and Lovelady, however, have testified that they were watching the parade from the top step of the building entrance when Gloria Calvery, who works in the Depository Building, ran up and said that the President had been shot. Lovelady and Shelley moved out into the street. About this time Shelley saw Truly and Patrolman Baker go into the building Shelley and Lovelady, at a fast walk or trot, turned west into the railroad yards and then to the west side of the Depository Building. They re-entered the building by the rear door several minutes after Baker and Truly rushed through the front entrance? On entering, Lovelady saw a girl on the first floor who he believes was Victoria Adams. If Miss Adams accurately recalled meeting Shelley and Lovelady when she reached the bottom of the stairs, then her estimate of the time when she descended from the fourth floor is incorrect, and she actually came down the stairs several minutes after Oswald and after Truly and Baker as well."

The more astute will have noticed this sentence:

On entering, Lovelady saw a girl on the first floor who he believes was Victoria Adams.

This is a blatant falsehood. It's hard to believe they actually got away with publishing this.
In her WC testimony, Vicki Adams recalls seeing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor with clarity. She recalls exactly where they were stood, what she called out to them and their lack of response and that it was less than 60 seconds after the last shot.
In stark contrast, neither Shelley nor Lovelady appear to recall seeing Adams, which might explain this falsehood.
Lovelady most certainly does not see a girl who he believes was Victoria Adams.
In fact, this part of his testimony reveals he had been coached on this particular issue prior to giving his testimony:

Mr. Ball: You came in through the first floor?
Mr. Lovelady: Right.
Mr. Ball: Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. Lovelady: I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
Mr. Ball: Who is Vickie?
Mr. Lovelady: The girl that works for Scott, Foresman.
Mr. Ball: What is her full name?
Mr. Lovelady: I wouldn't know.
Mr. Ball: Vickie Adams?
Mr. Lovelady: I believe so.
Mr. Ball: Would you say it was Vickie you saw?
Mr. Lovelady: I couldn't swear.

This is probably the funniest piece of any testimony.
Lovelady is simply asked who he saw on the first floor after entering the building. He says he saw a girl and then completely out of nowhere blurts out Vickie's name. It's amazing.
Ball has a bit of a flap and asks who Vickie is but Ball knows full well who she is. We know this because when he asks Lovelady what her full name is, Lovelady doesn't know so Ball has to provide her full name! He asks it as a question as if he still doesn't know. Priceless.
Still flapping, Ball then asks Lovelady if he thought it was Vicki even though Lovelady had blurted out that he wouldn't swear it was Vickie in the first place.
Ball then makes the mistake of trying to find out where this girl was when Lovelady saw her. It would seem like a simple question but Lovelady is suddenly all over the place:

Mr. Ball: Where was the girl?
Mr. Lovelady: I don't remember what place she was but I remember seeing a girl as she was talking to Bill or saw Bill or something, then I went over and asked one of the guys what time it was and to see if we should continue working or what.

"...she was talking to Bill or saw Bill or something..." 
Unbelievable. And who was this guy he was asking whether he should continue working? Wouldn't that guy be his boss, Bill Shelley?
Ball can't end the interview quickly enough after this bozo-fest.
Ball's pretending not to know Vicki Adams is made all the more ridiculous by the person who was interviewed directly before Lovelady - Vicki Adams.

Another stand out moment in Lovelady's testimony is when he is asked how long after the shots was it that Gloria came running up. This is when Lovelady introduces the 3 Minute Lie:

Mr. Ball: You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?
Mr. Lovelady: Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.
Mr Ball: Three minutes is a long time.

When a witness answers a direct question with a direct answer I would assume it's customary to take that at face value.
Incredibly, Ball seems to question Lovelady's answer when he makes the point "Three minutes is a long time."
Three minutes is a long time?
Now why would Ball think to question that?
Might it be because Vicki Adams had just testified that she saw Shelley and Lovelady towards the back of the first floor within seconds of the assassination?
And why didn't Ball bring up this contradiction between the testimonies of Adams and Lovelady?
And why didn't he bring up this contradiction when Shelley told the same lie?
And why didn't he bring up the fact that both men's testimonies contradicted the testimonies of Truly and Baker and the time trials they had taken part in?
And why didn't he bring up the fact that Shelley had contradicted his own affidavit concerning the sequence of events with Gloria?

Why were these contradictions allowed to stand in the Commission's conclusions?
Why did the Commission publish the blatant falsehood regarding Lovelady's testimony?

[Zeon Mason]

I’m in complete agreement with Dan that Victoria Adams was telling the truth that in her estimate it was within 1 minute that she and Stiles got down to the 1st floor and that Adams saw Lovelady and Shelley near the rear elevators.

Presuming therefore 60 sec is an accurate estimate then we can examine which of 2 options for Lovelady/Shelley is the more probable.

The earliest estimate of The Darnell film showing Baker running to the TSBD steps is approx 20 sec post shots.

There is a probable proposed identification of Lovelady and Shelley still at the steps during this 20 -25 sec interval of the Darnell film and if L/S left the steps as observed by B.W. Frazier, then they must have waited at least until about  30 sec post shots to do so which is after Darnell camera pans away.

Approx time of leaving the steps therefore for Lovelady/Shelley leaving the steps is 30 secs post shots.

Option 1: L/S leave the steps and walk about 30 ft towards Elm st so as to be seen by Frazier. Then L/S trek out as they claimed to a point near where the JFK limo had been on Elm st. Then L/S turned around and traveled back to TSBD going along the west side of TSBD to enter thru a west side door and then to the rear elevators. Total distance= at least 300 ft.

Option 2: L/S left the steps , went out about 30ft, then turned around and returned that same 30ft to enter into TSBD by the front door. L/S then proceeded into lobby , then thru the desk counter top which was NOT locked , and then crossed the 1st floor to arrive near the rear elevators= 90 ft. Total distance = 150ft.

Option 1 is  improbable because the distance L/S would have to travel would be in at least 300 ft and so they would both have had to run at 10 ft/sec the ENTIRE distance in order to have returned to TSBD by the west door and be near  elevators by 60 sec post shots.

Option 2, returning thru the TSBD front door, as crazy as it may seem, is the only probable way that L/S could have arrived to the rear elevators by 60 sec post shots because the distance is only 150 ft, and they easily could have walked that at a normal pace of 5ft/ sec.

[Dan O'meara]

I’m in complete agreement with Dan that Victoria Adams was telling the truth that in her estimate it was within 1 minute that she and Stiles got down to the 1st floor and that Adams saw Lovelady and Shelley near the rear elevators.

Presuming therefore 60 sec is an accurate estimate then we can examine which of 2 options for Lovelady/Shelley is the more probable.

The earliest estimate of The Darnell film showing Baker running to the TSBD steps is approx 20 sec post shots.

There is a probable proposed identification of Lovelady and Shelley still at the steps during this 20 -25 sec interval of the Darnell film and if L/S left the steps as observed by B.W. Frazier, then they must have waited at least until about  30 sec post shots to do so which is after Darnell camera pans away.

Approx time of leaving the steps therefore for Lovelady/Shelley leaving the steps is 30 secs post shots.

Option 1: L/S leave the steps and walk about 30 ft towards Elm st so as to be seen by Frazier. Then L/S trek out as they claimed to a point near where the JFK limo had been on Elm st. Then L/S turned around and traveled back to TSBD going along the west side of TSBD to enter thru a west side door and then to the rear elevators. Total distance= at least 300 ft.

Option 2: L/S left the steps , went out about 30ft, then turned around and returned that same 30ft to enter into TSBD by the front door. L/S then proceeded into lobby , then thru the desk counter top which was NOT locked , and then crossed the 1st floor to arrive near the rear elevators= 90 ft. Total distance = 150ft.

Option 1 is  improbable because the distance L/S would have to travel would be in at least 300 ft and so they would both have had to run at 10 ft/sec the ENTIRE distance in order to have returned to TSBD by the west door and be near  elevators by 60 sec post shots.

Option 2, returning thru the TSBD front door, as crazy as it may seem, is the only probable way that L/S could have arrived to the rear elevators by 60 sec post shots because the distance is only 150 ft, and they easily could have walked that at a normal pace of 5ft/ sec.

"...and if L/S left the steps as observed by B.W. Frazier..."

I can't find where Frazier says he observed Shelley and Lovelady leaving the steps.
Can you point me to it.
Thanks

[Dan O'meara]

As someone who doesn't believe Oswald took the shots I am, by default, a Conspiracy Theorist. I have no option as far as that is concerned, it is an automatic consequence of believing someone else took the shots.
As such, it is of immense significance to me that Shelley and Lovelady lied to various investigating agencies and the Warren Commission about their movements in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. Why would they do that? This is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.
Why would they try to cover up that, seconds after the shots, they re-entered the TSBD building through the front door and made their way towards the back of the first floor where they were seen by Adams and Baker?
What were they doing that needed to be covered up?
Another consequence of their lies is that it becomes important to review what else they said at this time and what other events surrounding the assassination they were involved with.
And it doesn't take too much digging to unearth the fact that Shelley was involved with a fundamentally important aspect of the case - Oswald's alibi!

Oswald may have been a lot of things but he was not stupid. Beyond the mumbling loner known to his work colleagues, Oswald was an intelligent and articulate man. His various radio and television appearances demonstrate this with clarity as does the fact he taught himself to speak Russian (sidenote :- does anyone know if he was in the Marines when he learned Russian?)
When a person gives an alibi to the police they know they have gone on record and that this is the version of events that will be used against them in a court of law. For anyone accused of a crime, the most important element of their defence is the alibi. They also know that once the alibi is given it will be checked to see how 'cast iron' it is. For crimes such as shooting police officers or Presidents, this is doubly so.
If a guilty person is going to give a false alibi it must be one that is incredibly difficult to verify or one that has been agreed with an accomplice.
Looking through the various notes and reports pertaining to Oswald's interrogation, his alibi has a few different elements:
According to what Oswald reportedly said -
1] He was in the lunch room on the first floor (the Domino Room) when JFK's limo drove by the building.
2] After this he went up to the second floor lunchroom to buy a Coke
3] He bought the Coke and was drinking it when Baker burst in, gun drawn.
4] He went back down to the first floor.
5] He finished his lunch and, possibly while he was finishing it, got together with Bill Shelley.
6] Shelley gave Oswald the impression there would be no more work that day and that it was okay for him to take the rest of the day off.
7] Oswald left the building.

Firstly, there is no way to verify that Oswald was in the Domino Room when JFK passed by. Although Oswald does seem to confirm this with his mention of seeing Junior Jarman and, presumably, Hank Norman together while he was in the Domino Room. The only time he could have seen these two men together on the first floor is when they entered the back door of the TSBD building on their way up to the fifth floor. Because the east elevator wasn't available Jarman and Norman had to walk around the elevators to get the west elevator. Walking around the elevators would have brought them into line of sight for someone sat in the Domino Room. This makes Oswald's apparent mention of seeing these men together compelling evidence supporting his assertion he was in the first floor lunchroom at the time JFK went by.
Unfortunately for Oswald, neither Jarman nor Norman saw him, so there is no direct alibi.

Secondly, the second floor lunchroom encounter is well attested to and seems to be confirmed by Oswald, Baker and Truly (not to mention indirectly by Mrs Robert Reid, who saw Oswald close to the lunchroom with a Coke in his hand a couple of minutes after the assassination). There is a wrinkle - Oswald appears to make it clear he had already bought his Coke and was sipping it when Baker burst in, something supported by Baker's initial report in which he had written Oswald was already drinking a Coke when the encounter occurred but which was then crudely crossed out. Oswald having already purchased the Coke really buggers up the timeline for his allegedly getting down from the sixth floor to the second floor lunchroom in the requisite time. Whatever the case, there is ample confirmation that Oswald was indeed in the second floor lunchroom seconds after the assassination.

The third element to Oswald's alibi is his interaction with Bill Shelley. Apparently, Oswald credits Shelley with his motive for leaving the building. The importance of this cannot be stressed enough because it is Oswald's decision to 'flee the scene' that puts him well and truly in the spotlight as a prime suspect on the day of the assassination. Even if he actually pulled the trigger, he has no reason to run immediately. He has already encountered the police, seconds after the shooting, four floors below the location of the shooting and has been given a pass. They can't immediately trace the rifle to him, they can't use fingerprint evidence against him on the day. All he has to do is hold his nerve, say he was on the second floor lunchroom all along and skip town later that day. Instead, he leaves the TSBD building.

So let's imagine that he is the shooter and is trying to come up with a false alibi. One that will stick in a court of law.
He's being asked - why did you flee the scene of the crime? Obviously, he has to come up with something convincing, something that would be almost impossible to verify.
Instead, he basically says that Bill Shelley said it was OK for him to leave!
Why on earth would he mention Bill Shelley? Why would he say it was Bill Shelley who recommended he leave for the day?
After his arrest, Oswald saw Shelley as he was being taken into the interview room and Shelley, who was having his affidavit taken, had to vacate the same room. So Oswald knows that all they have to do is ask Shelley if such a conversation took place. It's the easiest thing in the world to check and it can be checked almost immediately.

Maybe Oswald just thought that, by some miracle, Shelley would back him up. That Shelley would somehow know, when being asked, that Oswald was expecting him to lie to the police on his behalf and back him up.
According to his testimony, Shelley (like nearly everyone else) hardly knew Oswald at all except as someone who worked at the TSBD building. Why would Oswald, an intelligent man, think Shelley would back him up? Why would he take such a ridiculous risk?
The answer to this question is obvious - Oswald did it because he fully expected that Shelley would back him up!
So, which of these two options makes sense - that Oswald was so utterly stupid as to include Shelley in a false alibi that could be checked out immediately, leaving him looking completely guilty...
...or that Oswald fully expected to be backed up by Shelley, which is why he felt comfortable telling his interrogators about it?
Of course, when asked, Shelley denies all knowledge of this interaction with Oswald. This is from an FBI report about Shelley the day after the assassination:

"OSWALD said nothing to him about leaving work early or going home, and he did not give OSWALD permission to leave work.

He is still being asked about it in his WC testimony:

Mr. Ball: Did you at anytime after the President was shot see Oswald in the building?
Mr. Shelley: No, sir.
Mr. Ball: Did you at anytime after the President was shot tell Oswald to go home?
Mr. Shelley: No, sir.

Fritz makes the point that Oswald was cool and collected during the questioning, as if he'd experienced this kind of thing before, so the idea that a panicked and desperate Oswald blurted out the first name he could think of as an alibi is a non-starter.
It must rate as one of the weakest alibis in law enforcement history and something only an utter moron would come up with.
Or...
...Shelley was lying.
Again.

If we accept Shelley was lying about interacting with Oswald, there are one of two options available as far as I can see:

1] Oswald really did have the conversation with Shelley about going home and Shelley just lied about it for his own reasons (innocent Shelley).
2] Oswald viewed Shelley as an accomplice but Shelley sold him down the river (guilty Shelley).

Option #1] explains why Shelley refuses to back up Oswald (sort of) but it doesn't explain why Shelley lied about his movements after the assassination.
And it also doesn't explain another contribution to the case Shelley makes that day. Unknown to those inside the TSBD, the shooting of Tippit was about to bring half of Dallas law enforcement crashing down on Oswald's head. But if the Tippit shooting hadn't have happened, Oswald would have still been at the top of the DPD's list of suspects thanks to Roy Truly and Shelley.

Option #2] doesn't really need too much examining. Shelley, like Oswald, was involved in the assassination but didn't take the shots. Oswald including Shelley in his alibi now makes sense - Oswald fully expected Shelley to back him up. The fact Shelley lied about his movements after the assassination also becomes explicable as part of his involvement that he was trying to hide.