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Dan O'meara

Author Topic: The Palmprint  (Read 11423 times)

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2024, 09:02:01 AM »
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What confused logic.  With or without the palmprint there is no doubt whatsoever that the rifle belonged to Oswald.  It has a serial number.  The rifle with that serial number was sent to Oswald's PO box.  Oswald was photographed holding that rifle.  It was left at Oswald's place of employment.  The print is just a cherry on top of the ice cream sundae of guilt.

As usual, it is you who is confused Richard.
Using your renowned "logic" can you tell us what it means if there was no palmprint on the rifle when Day first examined it on the evening of the assassination. What does that mean?
Day testified that there was a clearly identifiable palmprint on the barrel of the rifle when it was handed over to Drain. Elsewhere he has stated that, not only was there a print, there was also fingerprint powder still on the barrel when he handed it over to Drain.
A few hours later Latona, the fingerprint specialist for the FBI, found no print on the barrel and no fingerprint powder.
What happened to the print and the fingerprint powder?
Where did it go?

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2024, 09:02:01 AM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2024, 02:38:47 PM »
Typical nutter garbage. I won't waste my time.

SA Drain--- “All I can figure is that it [Oswald’s print] was some sort of cushion, because they were getting a lot of heat by Sunday night.
You could take the print off Oswald’s card and put it on the rifle. Something like that happened.”

This theory is just garbage. Everyone's time is being wasted by it. Just because SA Drain was a box of rocks does not mean you have to be.
If you could just explain how it is possible to transfer the print from a card back to the rifle barrel.

Online Zeon Mason

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2024, 09:07:42 PM »
CT Speculation: Lt. Day never lifted any print from the  MC rifle before the rifle was handed over to FBI agent Drain.
 
Lt.Days claim: A palm print was lifted from the MC rifle (including some grain pattern matching the wooden stock of MC rifle) and the print was transferred to a card. This action by Lt. Day occurred BEFORE custody of the rifle was transferred to the FBI.

The Dilemma: The FBI received the MC rifle and upon examination found no prints on the MC rifle nor any evidence of powder that would indicate that Lt. Day had ever dusted for prints nor was the FBI made aware that Day had lifted a print and transferred the print to a card.

Explanations by Lt. Day:
A. There was a failure to communicate with FBI agent Drain.
B. The card was not given to Agent Drain because Lt. Day was given an order by the FBI to immediately stop any processing/inspection of the rifle.

Question: Does  an order by the FBI to Lt.Day to
stop the process of inspection of the rifle  “immediately” defacto prevent Lt. Day from handing over the card with the lifted print when the rifle was transferred to FBI agent Drain?

If the answer is no, then the CT arrives to the question how the card was created many days later well past Lt. Days inspection of the rifle , let alone FBI Latona’s inspection of the rifle.

Speculation about how the card was created after the FBI had inspected the MC rifle and found no prints:

Options:

A. The rifle was forced into one hand of an alive Oswald ( or he was somehow tricked to hold the rifle ) while he  was in custody)
B. The rifle was forced into one hand of a dead Oswald ( most likely at the morgue)
C. A lift of some portion of grain of the stock and some pattern of the barrel perhaps was lifted with tape and then applied to a card. Then Oswald’s hand was pressed to the card transferring his print overtop of the grain pattern on the card.

Now the CT reaches a dead end unless there is some way to prove from examination by some of the card or some witness that any of the 3 options above can be validated.

Are there some other CT options?

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2024, 09:07:42 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2024, 02:21:59 PM »
As usual, it is you who is confused Richard.
Using your renowned "logic" can you tell us what it means if there was no palmprint on the rifle when Day first examined it on the evening of the assassination. What does that mean?
Day testified that there was a clearly identifiable palmprint on the barrel of the rifle when it was handed over to Drain. Elsewhere he has stated that, not only was there a print, there was also fingerprint powder still on the barrel when he handed it over to Drain.
A few hours later Latona, the fingerprint specialist for the FBI, found no print on the barrel and no fingerprint powder.
What happened to the print and the fingerprint powder?
Where did it go?

It's a false premise that the print was faked, but I have already explained the implications even if that were the case.  At worst, it would mean that for some inexplicable reason that the DPD decided to frame a guilty person for a crime after he was dead, and the authorities were already satisfied he had committed the crime based on the totality of the other evidence.  It would raise zero doubt as to whether Oswald owned this particular rifle since there is overwhelming evidence EVEN in the absence of the print to link him, and him alone, to the rifle found on the 6th floor.  The rifle used to assassinate JFK. 

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2024, 11:56:20 PM »
It's a false premise that the print was faked, but I have already explained the implications even if that were the case.  At worst, it would mean that for some inexplicable reason that the DPD decided to frame a guilty person for a crime after he was dead, and the authorities were already satisfied he had committed the crime based on the totality of the other evidence.  It would raise zero doubt as to whether Oswald owned this particular rifle since there is overwhelming evidence EVEN in the absence of the print to link him, and him alone, to the rifle found on the 6th floor.  The rifle used to assassinate JFK.

Quote
It's a false premise that the print was faked

It shouldn't surprise me how stupid you can be...but it still does.
The idea that there was no palmprint on the rifle when Day examined it comes from your heroes - the Warren Commission.
You love the Warren Commission so much. You suck down everything they have to say without question.
But here we have your heroes questioning whether or not Day really lifted the palmprint from the rifle.
It must be so confusing for you when the people you love so much argue among themselves.

An FBI document dated August 28th, 1964, reveals that: "[Warren Commission General Counsel] Rankin advised because of the circumstances that now exist there was a serious question in the minds of the Commission as to whether or not the palm impression that has been obtained from the Dallas Police Department is a legitimate latent palm impression removed from the barrel or whether it was obtained from some other source."

The Warren Commission were wondering if the palmprint originated from "some other source".
They were questioning whether or not the palmprint really came from the barrel of the rifle.
In effect, they were questioning whether the palmprint was real or fake.

A memo sent from Liebler to Rankin on 28th August stated: "Griffin and Slawson and I raise questions covering the palmprint which Lt. Day of the Dallas Police Department testified he lifted from the underside of the barrel of the K-1 rifle on November 22, 1963...We suggest that additional investigation be conducted to determine with greater certainty that the palmprint was actually lifted from the rifle as Lt. Day has testified . The only evidence we presently have on that print is the testimony of Lt. Day himself."

The whole Liebler memo lays out a multitude of issues regarding the legitimacy of the palmprint.
And that's not all.
According to Howard Willens in his book “History Will Prove Us Right” [page 267]: "We also asked the FBI in July to follow up on an alleged report that there was no palm print on the rifle"

The Warren Commission was aware of a report in JULY '64 that there was no palmprint on the rifle!!
If there was no palmprint on the rifle then where did it come from?
The "false premise", as you call it, originated with your heroes - the Warren Commission.
How do you explain that?

There are so many massive problems with the palmprint but one stands head and shoulders above the rest.
Day testified that he lifted the palmprint from the barrel of the rifle, but left so much of the print on the rifle he felt that what was left on the rifle was the FBI's "best bet" of making an identification. It must be remembered that a certain identification of Oswald was made from the partial print that Day allegedly lifted, so whatever he left on the barrel of the rifle must have been even better than what he lifted.
Also, let's not forget that Day testified that there was not one, BUT TWO sets of prints on the barrel of the rifle!
Also, let's not forget that Day stated there was fingerprint powder still on the barrel of the rifle from where he made the lift.
And this is not surprising. Below is a pic of the actual lift. The arrows highlight that the tape did not pick up all the fingerprint powder, so this powder must have been left on the barrel.



Two sets of prints and a good portion of black fingerprint powder were on the barrel of the rifle when Day handed it over to the FBI.
A few hours later, when the rifle reached Latona, there was not a speck of either set of prints or fingerprint powder to be seen on the barrel of the rifle.

There's no point asking YOU where the prints and powder went as you don't have a clue what's going on.
BUT IT IS IMPORTANT AS FAR AS THE INVESTIGATION IS CONCERNED.
Because you're a zealot you can just skirt over this kind of thing but any rational person has to stop and ask questions.
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At worst, it would mean that for some inexplicable reason that the DPD decided to frame a guilty person for a crime after he was dead,
Where would we be without the usual dose of Richard "logic".
If the print was faked, this was done BEFORE the DPD was aware there was any other evidence linking Oswald to the rifle.
It was done BEFORE Oswald was dead.
Your argument - that the DPD wouldn't falsify evidence linking Oswald to the rifle because they already had loads of evidence linking Oswald to the rifle - is the the usual mental nonsense, because they had ZERO evidence linking Oswald to the rifle when the print was faked.
Do you understand how stupid your argument is?
I doubt it.



« Last Edit: September 11, 2024, 03:13:07 PM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2024, 11:56:20 PM »


Online Zeon Mason

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2024, 11:02:10 PM »
Lt.Day lifted a print and it was transferred to a card right?
So why did not Day hand over this card to FBI agent Drain when the rifle was transferred to Drains custody?
Was there some protocol in place requiring all physical evidence to remain in the possession of Fritz office that prevented Day from handing the card to Drain when he took possession of the rifle?

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2024, 11:18:01 PM »
Lt.Day lifted a print and it was transferred to a card right?
So why did not Day hand over this card to FBI agent Drain when the rifle was transferred to Drains custody?
Was there some protocol in place requiring all physical evidence to remain in the possession of Fritz office that prevented Day from handing the card to Drain when he took possession of the rifle?

The DPD was asked to transfer ALL evidence collected regarding the assassination to the FBI.
A print from the alleged murder weapon that could be tied to the prime suspect already in custody would have been the star piece of evidence that day. Of even more evidentiary importance that the rifle itself.
On the day of the assassination the palmprint would have been THE ONLY piece of evidence collected that would've tied Oswald to the alleged murder weapon.
The importance of the palmprint supposedly lifted by Day cannot be over-estimated.

So...why wasn't it the star of the show when the evidence was handed over to the FBI?
Why wasn't it the star of the show linking Oswald to the murder weapon??

Nutters cannot offer any explanation.
But there must be an explanation!
There must be an explanation why Day didn't hand over this most important piece of evidence. There must be an explanation why the two sets of prints and the black fingerprint powder disappeared from the barrel of the rifle.
There must be an explanation why Day didn't photograph the palmprint before he lifted it?

All these mysteries disappear if we accept that the palmprint was faked.





Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2024, 09:59:04 PM »
The DPD was asked to transfer ALL evidence collected regarding the assassination to the FBI.
A print from the alleged murder weapon that could be tied to the prime suspect already in custody would have been the star piece of evidence that day. Of even more evidentiary importance that the rifle itself.
On the day of the assassination the palmprint would have been THE ONLY piece of evidence collected that would've tied Oswald to the alleged murder weapon.
The importance of the palmprint supposedly lifted by Day cannot be over-estimated.

So...why wasn't it the star of the show when the evidence was handed over to the FBI?
Why wasn't it the star of the show linking Oswald to the murder weapon??

Nutters cannot offer any explanation.
But there must be an explanation!
There must be an explanation why Day didn't hand over this most important piece of evidence. There must be an explanation why the two sets of prints and the black fingerprint powder disappeared from the barrel of the rifle.
There must be an explanation why Day didn't photograph the palmprint before he lifted it?

All these mysteries disappear if we accept that the palmprint was faked.

All these mysteries disappear if we accept that the palmprint was faked.

Until you acknowledge the FBI put this to bed in September of 1964, after all this hand wringing had taken place, simply by the authentication of the palm print on the barrel of the Carcano by referencing the irregularities of the Carcano barrel, it will be forever a mystery.

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Re: The Palmprint
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2024, 09:59:04 PM »