Question: On Day of Assassination Did the Government Know Where Oswald Lived?

[Steve M. Galbraith]

By lived I mean the North Beckley Street rooming house location where he stayed during the week? Not the Paine house on weekends. I've gone over Hosty's testimony and others and cannot find any evidence that anyone in the government - FBI, CIA, SS, DPD - knew he lived there during the week. And didn't know, as far as I can tell, where he lived during the week from the time he returned from Mexico City to the Dallas area on October 3.

Is there any evidence indicating otherwise?

[Charles Collins]

By lived I mean the North Beckley Street rooming house location where he stayed during the week? Not the Paine house on weekends. I've gone over Hosty's testimony and others and cannot find any evidence that anyone in the government - FBI, CIA, SS, DPD - knew he lived there during the week.

Is there any evidence indicating otherwise?

I believe that Hosty’s interview with Ruth Payne and Marina Oswald shortly before the assassination revealed to Hosty that LHO was living in the Oak Cliff area. But I don’t think that even Ruth or Marina had the address at that point in time (only a phone number). And if I remember correctly they didn’t give Hosty the phone number at that time. I think you are probably correct that no one in the government knew where he lived during the week. In fact, perhaps LHO may have been the only person who knew. Because even the landlord knew him under a different name. Apparently they didn’t check his identification.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

I believe that Hosty’s interview with Ruth Payne and Marina Oswald shortly before the assassination revealed to Hosty that LHO was living in the Oak Cliff area. But I don’t think that even Ruth or Marina had the address at that point in time (only a phone number). And if I remember correctly they didn’t give Hosty the phone number at that time. I think you are probably correct that no one in the government knew where he lived during the week. In fact, perhaps LHO may have been the only person who knew. Because even the landlord knew him under a different name. Apparently they didn’t check his identification.

Charles, thanks, yes that's my understanding. Hosty said that if Paine/Marina had given him that phone number he could have looked it up and found the address.

Here is Hosty (WC testimony) on the first interview with Ruth (pre-assassination):
Mr. HOSTY. Yes; that is my recollection that we looked it [where Oswald was working] up in her telephone book to show it at 411 Elm Street, Dallas, Tex.
She told me at this time that she did not know where he was living, but she thought she could find out and she would let me know."

In his book, he said he interviewed Ruth after the assassination and she said: "You know, Mr. Hosty, when you first visited on the first of November you were asking us where Lee lived. We didn't know exactly but we have his phone number. Would that have helped you?"
"It would have been useful", I said. "I could have gotten his address from the phone company."
"Oh, I am so sorry, I should have realized that."

The claim that the CIA was closely following Oswald's seems to me to be refuted by this apparent fact. If they were following his every move, as some claim, why didn't they know where he lived? And, from what I've read, the CIA wasn't following Oswald in the US; they were receiving *reports* from the FBI about him. e.g., Jame Hosty. Who frankly did a pathetic job of it, e.g., he never interviewed Oswald and didn't even know what he, Oswald, looked like. Plus, as noted above, he didn't know where Oswald lived during the day for about two months.

[Andrew Mason]

Charles, thanks, yes that's my understanding. Hosty said that if Paine/Marina had given him that phone number he could have looked it up and found the address.

Here is Hosty (WC testimony) on the first interview with Ruth (pre-assassination):
Mr. HOSTY. Yes; that is my recollection that we looked it [where Oswald was working] up in her telephone book to show it at 411 Elm Street, Dallas, Tex.
She told me at this time that she did not know where he was living, but she thought she could find out and she would let me know."

In his book, he said he interviewed Ruth after the assassination and she said:

"You know, Mr. Hosty, when you first visited on the first of November you were asking us where Lee lived. We didn't know exactly but we have his phone number. Would that have helped you?"
"It would have been useful", I said. "I could have gotten his address from the phone company."
"Oh, I am so sorry, I should have realized that."

The claim that the CIA was following Oswald's every move seems to me to be refuted by this apparent fact. If they were following his every move, as some claim, why didn't they know where he lived? And, from what I've read, the CIA wasn't following Oswald; they were receiving *reports* from the FBI about him. I.e., Hosty. Who did a frankly pathetic job of it.

The phone no. would not have helped find Oswald's rooming house address.  Apparently, no one knew about Oswald's room at 1026 North Beckley until he told Captain Fritz in his first interview that started at 11:15 pm [Edit: should be 2:15 pm (Fritz) or 3:15 pm (Hosty) on 22Nov63. (4 H 214 ).

[Charles Collins]

The phone no. would not have helped find Oswald's rooming house address.  Apparently, no one knew about Oswald's room at 1026 North Beckley until he told Captain Fritz in his first interview that started at 11:15 pm on 22Nov63. (4 H 214 ).

It is called reverse phone lookup. The phone company knew the specific street address where any particular phone number is assigned. Law enforcement, provided that they had the phone number, only needed to ask the phone company for the address.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

It is called reverse phone lookup. The phone company knew the specific street address where any particular phone number is assigned. Law enforcement, provided that they had the phone number, only needed to ask the phone company for the address.

As Hosty said - and I'm sure he did it before - he would have simply gone to the phone company and asked them for the address for that phone number.

If I have a confirmation bias/motivated reasoning failing in this "Who Killed JFK?" question it comes from my cynical view about the competence, the bureaucratic failings of the government, of the security agencies around this matter. These institutions are made of human beings after all and not "things" or "cogs" manipulated by Allan Dulles or LBJ or whoever. They're prone to stupidity and laziness and incompetence like we all are. The idea by conspiracists that all of these agencies and all of the people involved directly and indirectly could pull off what they think happened - then cover it up, then have coverups of that coverups BY OTHER PEOPLE - is simply a pipe dream. Yes, JFK had enemies in the government and outside of it too. But he also had allies and friends and others who simply wouldn't have gone along with these supposed treasonous acts. If you think otherwise then, as the saying goes, you need to touch grass.

[Richard Smith]

As Hosty said - and I'm sure he did it before - he would have simply gone to the phone company and asked them for the address for that phone number.

If I have a confirmation bias/motivated reasoning failing in this case it revolves around my cynical view about the competence, the bureaucratic failings of the government, of the security agencies in this matter. These consist of human beings after all and not "things" or "cogs" manipulated by Allan Dulles or LBJ or whoever. They're prone to stupidity and laziness and incompetence like we all are. The idea by conspiracists that all of these agencies and all of the people involved directly and indirectly could pull off what they think happened - then cover it up, then have coverups of that coverups BY OTHER PEOPLE - is simply a pipe dream.

Oswald was just one of thousands of such real or imagined miscreants that came to the attention of the FBI.  The FBI had no particular cause before the assassination to think he was dangerous.  His nutty politics made Oswald someone worth keeping tabs on but I'm sure there were thousands of other such people.  There was no way to track their every movement.  After the fact, it is easy to ask why they didn't take more notice.  I recall some lengthy discussions on the forum about how and when the DPD discovered the address.  CTers suggest the DPD had it all along as part of the plot to frame Oswald.  But imagine that plan.  If he DPD had been involved in framing Oswald, they would have known there was nothing to find at his boardinghouse because they would have known he was innocent.  Why hurry to search it?  And they didn't' find much there to incriminate him.  Missing a golden opportunity to plant a wealth of evidence. Imagine what they could have planted.  Press clippings of JFK's visit.  Ammo.  The sky was the limit.

[Andrew Mason]

It is called reverse phone lookup. The phone company knew the specific street address where any particular phone number is assigned. Law enforcement, provided that they had the phone number, only needed to ask the phone company for the address.

Do we know that the phone no. that Ruth Paine had was Oswald's phone at 1026 North Beckley St?  I thought the phone they had was for the TSBD at 411 Elm St.