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Author Topic: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet  (Read 5368 times)

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2024, 11:05:48 AM »
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The camera used was a Sony ILCE-1 camera which used a vertical travel mechanical shutter:

But that is not a problem since the camera was turned so that the vertical travel of the shutter curtain was in the same direction as the bullet travel.

While the exposure time is effectively 1/8000th of a second, the time it takes for the shutter opening to travel from top to bottom of the image sensor (shutter speed), appears to be 1/400th or 1/500th of a second (depending on whether it was 35 mm full frame or APS-C).  This means that the space between shutter curtains as it passes over the sensor is 1/20th or 1/16th of the vertical image captured.  So each photo is essentially a series of exposures from top to bottom of 1/8000th second snippets.  The time between the beginning of exposure of the top snippet and the end of exposure of the bottom one would be 1/400th of a second or 1/500th of a second.

If the camera used a shutter speed of 1/400th of a second (2.5 ms) and an exposure time of 1/8000th of a second, the time between one end of the streak and the other would be the width of the streak divided by the frame width x 2.5 ms.  So in this case, I measure the streak to be 21.4% of the total width of the image.  So the total exposure time is:

Exposure time for streak = .214 x 2.5 = .535 milliseconds.

If the camera used a shutter speed of 1/500th of a second (2 ms), the exposure time for the streak would be .214 x 2 = .428 ms.

Bullet speed

If the muzzle speed of the bullet was 3300 feet per second, by the time it travelled 450 feet it would be down to around 2700 fps.  So in 1 ms it would travel 2.7 feet. In .428 ms it would travel 1.16 feet or about 14 inches.  In .535 seconds it would travel about 17 inches.

So it looks to me like that is the real bullet streak is consistent with being captured by a shutter speed of 1/400th or 1/500th of a second with an exposure time of 1/8000th of a second (shutter curtain window of 1/16th or1/20th of the sensor width travelling across the image sensor in the direction of the bullet travel (ie direction of bullet travel in the image).

If the shutter speed was 1/400 th or 1/500 th of a second, then it is consistent with a bullet speed of 2700 feet per second. But if the shutter speed was 1/100 th of a second, then it is consistent with a much slower speed, which is consistent with a fragment. Which is also consistent with causing a minor wound. And not blasting the top of the ear off. And likely continuing on to crack the skull, unless the head just happened to be turned perfectly.

Whether it is a rifle bullet or a fragment, it takes a good deal of luck to capture the image of a projectile path. But it takes several times more luck to capture the image of a rifle bullet than it does of a fragment. So I still think it is more likely an image of a fragment than of a rifle bullet.

In any case, we do not have enough information to conclude it was an image of a rifle bullet because we do not know the all important shutter speed.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 11:09:36 AM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2024, 11:05:48 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2024, 04:38:58 AM »
So if  the fragment idea is right then Crooks 1st and 2nd shots had to have been far enough off the target of Trumps body in order to have any chance of hitting some obstacle  hard enough to cause the 5.56 mm bullet(s) to fragment into at least 2 pieces.

That raises the question what then was Crooks motive if not to hit Trump at all?

If Crooks was a right winger with no intention to hit Trump but having no problem with shooting at some random unknown people in the crowd, then Crooks motive was multiple:

A. He was a troubled rightwing man who had decided to commit suicide by counter sniper fire.
B. He wanted to cause maximum suspicion directed towards the Democrat party and or the “Globalist Deep State”
C. He admired Trump enough not to target Trump but disliked Trump supporters enough to shoot at them with 8 shots.

If Crooks was a left winger then the 1st and 2nd shots he took were intended to kill Trump  by fatal head wound. Crooks motive in this case was also multiple :

D. Crooks was a troubled left winger like the one who previously shot at Republicans playing softball.
E. Crooks wore camouflage clothing and patriotic image shirt and registered as Republican voter to create an illusion of being a right wing lunatic instead of a left wing lunatic.
F. Crooks wanted to take out Trump (AND a few supporters also) with  an AR 15  rifle while committing suicide by counter sniper so as to remove a   “fascist “ threat to democracy while posthumously becoming a martyr for the Left wing Democrat cause to ban AR-15 rifles.

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2024, 04:38:58 AM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2024, 07:22:22 PM »
So if  the fragment idea is right then Crooks 1st and 2nd shots had to have been far enough off the target of Trumps body in order to have any chance of hitting some obstacle  hard enough to cause the 5.56 mm bullet(s) to fragment into at least 2 pieces.

That raises the question what then was Crooks motive if not to hit Trump at all?

If Crooks was a right winger with no intention to hit Trump but having no problem with shooting at some random unknown people in the crowd, then Crooks motive was multiple:

A. He was a troubled rightwing man who had decided to commit suicide by counter sniper fire.
B. He wanted to cause maximum suspicion directed towards the Democrat party and or the “Globalist Deep State”
C. He admired Trump enough not to target Trump but disliked Trump supporters enough to shoot at them with 8 shots.

If Crooks was a left winger then the 1st and 2nd shots he took were intended to kill Trump  by fatal head wound. Crooks motive in this case was also multiple :

D. Crooks was a troubled left winger like the one who previously shot at Republicans playing softball.
E. Crooks wore camouflage clothing and patriotic image shirt and registered as Republican voter to create an illusion of being a right wing lunatic instead of a left wing lunatic.
F. Crooks wanted to take out Trump (AND a few supporters also) with  an AR 15  rifle while committing suicide by counter sniper so as to remove a   “fascist “ threat to democracy while posthumously becoming a martyr for the Left wing Democrat cause to ban AR-15 rifles.

What are the odds that Trump would be hit by a random bullet fragment in that massive crowd if the shooter wasn't aiming at him?   There were thousands of people in attendance.  The shooter was clearly trying to kill Trump.  There was nothing between himself and Trump to cause the bullet to fragment.  Trump was grazed by the bullet.  Motive might never be known.  Particularly with a biased FBI in charge.  I think the shooter was a suicidal, depressed individual who wanted to make his mark on the way out the door.  He was perhaps not politically motivated but a product of the politics of COVID lockdowns and school closures that has resulted in mental health issues for people in his age range.

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2024, 07:46:58 PM »
What are the odds that Trump would be hit by a random bullet fragment in that massive crowd if the shooter wasn't aiming at him?   There were thousands of people in attendance.  The shooter was clearly trying to kill Trump.  There was nothing between himself and Trump to cause the bullet to fragment.  Trump was grazed by the bullet.  Motive might never be known.  Particularly with a biased FBI in charge.  I think the shooter was a suicidal, depressed individual who wanted to make his mark on the way out the door.  He was perhaps not politically motivated but a product of the politics of COVID lockdowns and school closures that has resulted in mental health issues for people in his age range.
This is the question for the "Trump was hit by fragments" theorists that needs answering: "What was between Trump and the shooter that caused this supposed fragmentation either of a bullet or led to shrapnel/shards injuring Trump?"

Photos of the teleprompter show no damage. There's nothing else that I can see that was between Trump and the shooter. As the Sherlock Holmes' saying goes, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." 

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2024, 07:46:58 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2024, 02:44:25 AM »
Geez I’m agreeing with the  2 LNs Richard and Steve. There must be something wrong with me. Quick someone give me my CT pill so that I can continue wasting my time considering ridiculous theories like Alan Fords Oswald Burning Flag (by the mailbox ) or Trumps Ear Hit By Fragment Not Bullet theory 🙄


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2024, 07:10:58 AM »
This is the question for the "Trump was hit by fragments" theorists that needs answering: "What was between Trump and the shooter that caused this supposed fragmentation either of a bullet or led to shrapnel/shards injuring Trump?"

Photos of the teleprompter show no damage. There's nothing else that I can see that was between Trump and the shooter. As the Sherlock Holmes' saying goes, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

There are many possibilities. Note the video below:


In the initial picture of this video, and at the time mark of 0:56, one can see four metal railings that can assist people going up some steps. They are about 3 feet tall. A bullet could strike one of these and produce a shower of fragments, which could wound the four police officers standing near the feet of Trump and Trump himself.

There are thousands of people here. But all were not equally likely to get hit by such fragments. The ones within a few feet of the railings are far more likely to be hit than anyone else. The police officers and Trump.

The shooter was firing from 140 years away. Oswald, at the longest range, 88 yards. And Oswald had expert Marine training, whereas Crook's had no such training or any expert training as far as I know. He could miss by several feet.

In any case, it appears some object was hit causing a shower of fragments. In addition to Trump four police officers also had minor wounds from flying debris. Five days later there was a news report that confirmed this by saying of the four injured officers, two were in minor hot water over whether they were authorized to come to Butler to help provide protection. So it appears these officers are not imaginary. One of these "imaginary" police officers can be seen walking in front of the podium, right below Trump's a minute or so before the shooting.

In any case, people have to start to deal with the facts. One can continue to ignore the four officers with minor wounds from flying debris. But you can't expect to find out the truth when one ignores inconvenient facts.

The only defense for the rifle bullet theory is a stream of false statements. "The only reports of the injured officers come in the immediate aftermath of the shooting", "There is no object that could have been struck that could have produced a shower of fragments that could continue in Trump's direction" or "There were no uniformed police officers anywhere near Trump when the shots took place".

And again:
* Why didn't Trump show us his ear before it totally healed?
* How did a bullet struck ear heal up so quickly in anyone, let alone a 78 year old man?
* Why didn't Trump become deaf from a supersonic bullet passing within two inches of his ear drum?
* How is it Trump's head just happened to be turned in such a way, directly toward the shooter, making it possible for a rifle shot to hit his ear but not continue on to hit his skull? How do we know Trump was directly facing the shooter and not 20 degrees to the left?

No answers to any of these questions.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2024, 07:27:34 AM by Joe Elliott »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2024, 11:09:28 PM »
Below is a link to a New York Times article from almost two weeks after the assassination attempt, that has flown under the radar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/25/us/politics/fbi-bullet-trump-rally.html

Quote
F.B.I. Examining Bullet Fragments Found at Trump Rally Site
The bureau is assessing what caused the former president’s wound during an assassination attempt. The question has turned political.

July 25, 2024
The F.B.I. is examining numerous metal fragments found near the stage at a campaign rally in Butler, Pa., to determine whether an assassin’s bullet — or potential debris — grazed former President Donald J. Trump’s head, bloodying his ear, according to the F.B.I. and a federal law enforcement official.

The bureau has asked to interview Mr. Trump as part of its broader investigation, hoping to provide insights into the shooting and possibly a more complete record of his injury, the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the continuing inquiry.

Unanswered questions about the object that struck the Republican nominee for president have lingered since the shooting on July 13, with Mr. Trump claiming that he was struck by a bullet — and casting his survival as an act of divine intervention.

F.B.I. officials have been more circumspect, citing the need to analyze the evidence before determining what struck Mr. Trump — a bullet, metal shard or something else.

The bureau’s shooting reconstruction team “continues to examine evidence from the scene, including bullet fragments, and the investigation remains ongoing,” the F.B.I. said in a statement on Thursday. In addition to injuring Mr. Trump, the gunman, Thomas Crooks, 20, of Bethel Park, Pa., shot three rally attendees, one fatally.

Steven Cheung, a Trump campaign spokesman, did not answer whether the bureau had asked to review the former president’s medical records after the incident, but Mr. Trump has not released them publicly.

F.B.I. officials view the identification of the projectile as important, but not a central focus of a sprawling criminal investigation into the actions of the gunman. They are deeply interested in Mr. Crooks’s rationale or any indication that he might have had an accomplice or other help. So far, they have not found a motive nor a conspirator.

“The bureau’s priority is finding whether anybody helped the shooter and eliminating any ongoing threat,” said Michael Harrigan, a former F.B.I. special agent who ran the bureau firearms training unit in Quantico, Va.

“From an investigative standpoint, knowing what happened to the president’s ear doesn’t really matter,” he added.

It matters a great deal from a political standpoint.

“With respect to former President Trump, there’s some question about whether or not it’s a bullet or shrapnel that hit his ear,” Christopher A. Wray, the F.B.I. director, told Representative Jim Jordan, Republican of Ohio and the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, on Wednesday.

That statement prompted a fierce backlash and continued Republican attacks on Mr. Wray.

“It’s shocking Christopher Wray doesn’t know what the facts are, but that probably says more about his job performance — or lack thereof — than anything else,” Mr. Cheung said.

Speaker Mike Johnson told NBC on Thursday: “We’ve all seen the video, we’ve seen the analysis, we’ve heard it from multiple sources in different angles that a bullet went through his ear.”

“There’s a lot of frustration and concern about the leadership with these agencies,” Mr. Johnson added.

In a social media post Thursday night, Mr. Trump lashed out at Mr. Wray, saying: “No wonder the once storied F.B.I. has lost the confidence of America!”

Mr. Trump said there was no glass and no shrapnel. “No, it was, unfortunately, a bullet that hit my ear, and hit it hard.”

The F.B.I. said in a statement that the bureau “has been consistent and clear that the shooting was an attempted assassination of former President Trump, which resulted in his injury, as well as the death of a heroic father and the injuries of several other victims.”

It is not unusual for the type of bullet that Mr. Crooks fired from his AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle to tumble end over end and break apart after hitting even a small solid object. Gun experts say a fragment might, for instance, have hit a metal stanchion.

Still, a bullet could have grazed Mr. Trump’s ear, and the F.B.I. has not ruled that out. Investigators found eight rifle casings on the roof where the shooter was positioned.

It is not clear if investigators have eliminated other potential sources of debris. But bureau analysts appear to be focused on metal fragments, as opposed to glass from the teleprompters onstage. Photos of the teleprompters next to Mr. Trump show they were intact after the bullets were fired.

F.B.I. analysts are also examining still images and other electronic evidence for clues.

Gun experts said the F.B.I. could rely on trajectory analysis, a physical examination of any linked bullet and the president’s wound to possibly figure out what happened. A detailed analysis of bullet trajectories, footage, photos and audio by The New York Times strongly suggests Mr. Trump was grazed by the first of eight bullets fired by Mr. Crooks.

The bureau could also get lucky and find the former president’s DNA on a piece of a bullet. But even that would likely not establish if a fragment or the actual bullet hit his ear.

One other scenario investigators are likely to explore: that the bullet, deadly but friable, might have fragmented after skimming Mr. Trump’s ear.

“The problem you have with a bullet traveling at 3,200 feet per second is that it fragments very easily when it hits a surface before the target,” Mr. Harrigan said. “It’s going to be tough with the fragmentation to definitely say what happened. ”

Again, here is the critical sentence:

Quote
The F.B.I. is examining numerous metal fragments found near the stage at a campaign rally in Butler, Pa., to determine whether an assassin’s bullet — or potential debris — grazed former President Donald J. Trump’s head, bloodying his ear, according to the F.B.I. and a federal law enforcement official.

This lays to rest several false arguments made by those who support the notion that Trump must have been hit by a bullet, a fragment is impossible:

* "There is no object that a bullet could have struck that would produce fragments."

FALSE: The presence of these fragments near the stage proves there was at least one object a bullet could have hit, and which MUST have hit, which did would produce fragments.

* "The lack of any damage, any damage what so ever, to the Teleprompter PROVES no fragments COULD POSSIBLY be produced.

FALSE: There were other objects a bullet could have hit before reaching the stage, like the four metal hand rails. The lack of damage to the Teleprompter proves nothing.

* "No object was in the line of sight from the shooter to the target".

FALSE: Assuming the shot is lined up correctly, and a stupid firing position was not chosen, there is never an object in the line of sight for any attempted shooting. But this reasoning assumes that all shots will be perfectly aimed. The reality if that not all shots are perfectly aimed, particularly with shooters without expert training. And so, in reality, fragments are sometimes produced by a bullet, even though there was a direct line path the bullet could have taken to the target without hitting anything else.

* There were absolutely no policemen anywhere near Trump when the shot was fired. The only up close protection personal were Secret Service Agents.

FALSE: At least one of these "Imaginary" policemen is clearly visible in a video near the foot of the podium within a minute of the first shot.

* The early report of four motorcycle policemen standing near Trump being wounded is possibly a dubious early story.

FALSE: The media reported five days later that two of these four motorcycle policemen who were injured were in minor hot water because they might not have had proper authorization to travel to Butler to protect Trump. A strange subsequence story about "Imaginary" motorcycle policemen who were slightly wounded, like Trump.


Clearly the four motorcycle policemen were most likely injured by flying fragments. No one argues "No, each were slightly injured by a rifle bullet." The natural scenario, until proven otherwise, is that all five individuals who were standing near each other, Trump and the four motorcycle policemen, were slightly wounded by fragments, possibly by bullet fragments, but not by rifle bullets.

And there is a clear motive for Trump to lie about this. To sound more heroic for being hit a bullet, rather than a fragment that could have been carrying just one one thousandth of the kinetic energy of a rifle bullet.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2024, 11:52:42 PM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2024, 11:09:28 PM »