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Author Topic: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet  (Read 5372 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2024, 12:15:23 AM »
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    "I was taking pictures and that's when the pops started happening.
     And I just happened to have my finger on the shutter. And I heard
     the pops and just kept shooting."
          -- Doug Mills, captured bullet streak


A small crane held up speakers for the event. Its hydraulic line was severed.


Start of Animation
 


I had previously thought to myself that both of the cranes appeared to be close to the line of fire. The one that had its hydraulic line severed was on the opposite side of the stage from the shooter (if I am looking at things correctly). Therefore, it appears to me that one of the bullets hit the hydraulic line after it passed by Trump and the stage area. I wasn’t aware that one of the cranes appeared to be hit until I saw this post. Thanks.

P.S. A crazy thought came to my mind while watching the interview of Doug Mills. When they showed Trump with his defiant fist in the air, I was reminded of the photo of LHO when he displayed his fist to the cameras while in DPD custody. The comparison is of some very different circumstances, but perhaps similar in their symbolism of defiance.

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2024, 12:15:23 AM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2024, 12:59:01 AM »


    "The top arrow points to his body. Just below it is his rifle lying a few feet
     from him. The arrow to the right points to his backpack. The far right
     arrow points to a ladder. Note the large flow of blood downslope of his
     body in the following closeup."

Link to picture: May not be suitable for some

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2024, 01:48:21 AM »


    "The top arrow points to his body. Just below it is his rifle lying a few feet
     from him. The arrow to the right points to his backpack. The far right
     arrow points to a ladder. Note the large flow of blood downslope of his
     body in the following closeup."

Link to picture: May not be suitable for some


Just guessing, but there is some considerable distance from the body to the rifle. And sitting on the ridge vent just above the rifle there appears to be a dark object. I think that that object could be a sandbag or similar object used as a rest for the rifle while shooting it. I don’t know much about the shooter but have read some outrageous things that probably are not true. I did read that Trump said they got him with one shot between the eyes.

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2024, 01:48:21 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2024, 03:24:55 AM »

A composite image showing what appears to be a bullet passing by Donald J. Trump during a rally in Butler, Pa., on Saturday. Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times

Mr. Mills was using a Sony digital camera capable of capturing images at up to 30 frames per second. He took these photos with a shutter speed of 1/8,000th of a second — extremely fast by industry standards.

The other factor is the speed of the bullet from the firearm. On Saturday law enforcement authorities recovered an AR-15-type semiautomatic rifle at the scene from a deceased white man they believe was the gunman.

“If the gunman was firing an AR-15-style rifle, the .223-caliber or 5.56-millimeter bullets they use travel at roughly 3,200 feet per second when they leave the weapon’s muzzle,’’ Mr. Harrigan said. “And with a 1/8,000th of a second shutter speed, this would allow the bullet to travel approximately four-tenths of a foot while the shutter is open.”

“Most cameras used to capture images of bullets in flight are using extremely high speed specialty cameras not normally utilized for regular photography, so catching a bullet on a side trajectory as seen in that photo would be a one in a million shot and nearly impossible to catch even if one knew the bullet was coming,” he said.l
(from NYT article: Photo Appears to Capture Path of Bullet Used in Assassination Attempt, July 14, 2024)

Yes. The photographer indicated that the shutter speed was 1/8,000 of a second. That should be considered definitive. Except for one thing. The length of the bullet path is about one foot. This would indicate a bullet speed of, distance / time.

1 foot / (1/8,000) of a second = 8,000 feet per second.

That is a problem. The muzzle velocity of the AR-15 is 3,300 feet per second. There is no way the shutter speed could be 1/8,000 of a second.

By the way, this photographs is cropped, making it possible the streak was longer than one foot, extending beyond the right edge. But non cropped photographs show the streak is only about one foot long, not much longer.

Correction: In my earlier posts I spoke of a three foot long streak. I was looking at youtube video where I only got a short view. It is really more like a one foot long streak.

If there is a conflict between what the photographer says and what the photograph says, I am going to believe the photograph. There is no way the shutter speed was 1/8,000 of a second. Unless the object was not a bullet fragment nor a bullet but an alien drone moving at 8,000 feet per second.


Perhaps the photographer was mistaken. Maybe the shutter speed was more like 1/4000 of a second. That just might work. But there is another problem.

The image of the sign on the podium of crystal sharpe. But of Trump's hat, the lettering looks a little blurry, obviously caused by Trump moving his head a little, while the podium was still. With the letter "A" on the hat, I cannot clearly see a red triangle inside the white "A". In contrast, I can easily see a blue triangle inside the white "A" on the podium sign, even though the letters are similar size. That hat appears a little blurry.

I would think that at 1/4,000 of a second, the letters on Trump's hat would be quite sharp, not blurry, even if Trump was moving his head slightly.

I think the photograph shows the shutter speed setting was set a good deal slower than 1/4,000 of a second, indicated by the blurring of Trump's hat. If that is true, the object could not be a bullet moving at 3,300 feet per second, and not a pristine bullet.

Question:

Does anyone have an example of a picture, taken with a shutter speed of 1/4,000 of a second, which still shows some blurring of the person, because they were moving a little. That even 1/4,000 of a second is not fast enough to prevent some blurring even of a person who is standing pretty still.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2024, 03:35:09 AM by Joe Elliott »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2024, 03:50:23 AM »
Here is a link that shows, if you scroll down a bit, the streak was about the length of his hat, about one foot. Object traveling at 8,000  feet per second if the shutter speed was 1/8,000 of a second. Impossible.

https://haje.medium.com/theres-a-problem-with-that-bullet-in-flight-photo-of-trump-333dc1eeda1a
« Last Edit: July 29, 2024, 03:53:28 AM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2024, 03:50:23 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2024, 11:02:19 AM »
Yes. The photographer indicated that the shutter speed was 1/8,000 of a second. That should be considered definitive. Except for one thing. The length of the bullet path is about one foot. This would indicate a bullet speed of, distance / time.

1 foot / (1/8,000) of a second = 8,000 feet per second.

That is a problem. The muzzle velocity of the AR-15 is 3,300 feet per second. There is no way the shutter speed could be 1/8,000 of a second.

By the way, this photographs is cropped, making it possible the streak was longer than one foot, extending beyond the right edge. But non cropped photographs show the streak is only about one foot long, not much longer.

Correction: In my earlier posts I spoke of a three foot long streak. I was looking at youtube video where I only got a short view. It is really more like a one foot long streak.

If there is a conflict between what the photographer says and what the photograph says, I am going to believe the photograph. There is no way the shutter speed was 1/8,000 of a second. Unless the object was not a bullet fragment nor a bullet but an alien drone moving at 8,000 feet per second.


Perhaps the photographer was mistaken. Maybe the shutter speed was more like 1/4000 of a second. That just might work. But there is another problem.

The image of the sign on the podium of crystal sharpe. But of Trump's hat, the lettering looks a little blurry, obviously caused by Trump moving his head a little, while the podium was still. With the letter "A" on the hat, I cannot clearly see a red triangle inside the white "A". In contrast, I can easily see a blue triangle inside the white "A" on the podium sign, even though the letters are similar size. That hat appears a little blurry.

I would think that at 1/4,000 of a second, the letters on Trump's hat would be quite sharp, not blurry, even if Trump was moving his head slightly.

I think the photograph shows the shutter speed setting was set a good deal slower than 1/4,000 of a second, indicated by the blurring of Trump's hat. If that is true, the object could not be a bullet moving at 3,300 feet per second, and not a pristine bullet.

Question:

Does anyone have an example of a picture, taken with a shutter speed of 1/4,000 of a second, which still shows some blurring of the person, because they were moving a little. That even 1/4,000 of a second is not fast enough to prevent some blurring even of a person who is standing pretty still.

I think that the blurring might have more to do with the depth of field of the focus on the camera/lens at those settings. Peter Russell indicated that it was very shallow in his description of his photos. Perhaps Mills had focused on the podium thinking that would be sufficient. But Trump being a little further away isn’t in as sharp focus as the podium. I doubt that Trump’s motions had anything to do with it.

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2024, 02:37:17 PM »
We are getting a lesson into why the testimony of Emergency Room Doctors should not be treated as Holy Writ.

The object that struck Trump was not a bullet. It was a fragment of debris that was propelled by the bullet. How can we tell?



Your hatred of Trump is reaching a tin foil stage.   This is completely unhinged stuff.  Imagine hating someone to such an extent as to deny what can be seen with your own eyes.  A kid was allowed through gross incompetence of the Biden administration to fire eight shots.  Trump was struck by a bullet according even to the FBI. 

AP:
Nearly two weeks after Donald Trump’s near assassination, the FBI confirmed Friday that it was indeed a bullet that struck the former president’s ear, moving to clear up conflicting accounts about what caused the former president’s injuries after a gunman opened fire at a Pennsylvania rally.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2024, 02:38:26 PM by Richard Smith »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2024, 03:25:27 PM »
Your hatred of Trump is reaching a tin foil stage.   This is completely unhinged stuff.  Imagine hating someone to such an extent as to deny what can be seen with your own eyes.  A kid was allowed through gross incompetence of the Biden administration to fire eight shots.  Trump was struck by a bullet according even to the FBI. 

AP:
Nearly two weeks after Donald Trump’s near assassination, the FBI confirmed Friday that it was indeed a bullet that struck the former president’s ear, moving to clear up conflicting accounts about what caused the former president’s injuries after a gunman opened fire at a Pennsylvania rally.

You or the AP have cropped the Friday statement from the FBI. Here is the complete quote:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-bullet-shrapnel-ronny-jackson-christopher-wray-cb780b9d1a078f0be4191682e75101cf

“What struck former President Trump in the ear was a bullet, whether whole or fragmented into smaller pieces, fired from the deceased subject’s rifle,” the agency said in a statement.

In other words, the President was struck by, either:
* a rifle bullet
or:
* a fragment of a rifle bullet

in which case I wonder, if it was a fragment, how they could tell if was a fragment of the bullet and not a fragment of the object the bullet struck.

Since the FBI believes it could have been a fragment, bullets don't just fragment themselves. They must know, i assume, of some object that was roughly between the shooter and Trump that was struck. But we do not know what the object was or what damage happened to it.


And I have read in the news, and checked out the wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Donald_Trump

Quote
Four Pittsburgh Police officers who were feet away from Trump suffered minor injuries from flying debris when bullets struck objects nearby.

So no one hear wants to take a stab at explaining how five men standing near each other received their minor wounds. My explanation? From a spray of several fragments caused when the bullet struck on object. Let's here someone else's idea.

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Re: Emergency Doctors Determine that Trump was Struck by a Rifle Bullet
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2024, 03:25:27 PM »