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Author Topic: The Amazing Survival of Trump  (Read 3989 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2024, 10:33:16 PM »
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The sonic booms arriving at the same moment as the bullets (yellow arrows)? A smaller set of three spikes identical in separation (white arrows) follow the three larger spikes. The smaller spikes are probably the report of each muzzle blast, just not recorded as loud as the sonic booms?

So virtually no time lag necessary if we use where the Times placed the bullets in their animation? The sonic boom set-of-spikes coincides with the arrival of each bullet?

Mi no comprende. What say you?


If the recording microphone is on the podium right in front of Trump, then this makes sense to me. The small distance from the bullets to the microphone would make any time delay be so small that it would be virtually negligible. And it makes sense to me that the microphone location would be on the podium.

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2024, 10:33:16 PM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2024, 08:25:23 AM »
I haven't seen anything about "four other officers" being hit by fragments.  Where does this come from?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/live-updates-apparent-shots-fired-223759785.html

Quote
11 Investigates has learned that four Pittsburgh police officers assigned to the former president’s motorcade yesterday suffered minor injuries during the shooting.

The four motorcycle officers were part of Donald Trump’s escort to and from the rally in Butler.

Sources tell Chief Investigator Rick Earle the officers were just feet away from Trump when shots rang out. The four officers suffered minor injuries from flying debris caused by the bullets.

Sources say the officers were hit with either plastic or metal fragments when the bullets struck objects nearby.

They were treated at the scene. They were okay to escort Trump back to the airport in Pittsburgh last night after he was treated at Butler Memorial Hospital.



https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/one-other-detail

Quote
A report from local TV station WPXI at 4:50 PM Sunday said this (emphasis added) …

11 Investigates has learned that four Pittsburgh police officers assigned to the former president’s motorcade yesterday suffered minor injuries during the shooting.

The four motorcycle officers were part of Donald Trump’s escort to and from the rally in Butler.

Sources tell Chief Investigator Rick Earle the officers were just feet away from Trump when shots rang out. The four officers suffered minor injuries from flying debris caused by the bullets.

Sources say the officers were hit with either plastic or metal fragments when the bullets struck objects nearby.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2024, 08:40:39 AM »
Let me list two groups of gunshot victims:

Group A:

President Kennedy
Governor Connally
Tromas Crooks
Corey Comperatore
Butler PA 57 year old anonymous man, initially in critical condition, now released
Butler PA 74 year old anonymous man, initially in critical condition, now released

Group B:

James Tague
Donald Trump
4 police officers standing near Trump

What does the Group A people have in common? All were seriously wounded or killed. What does the Group B people have in common? All suffered only minor injuries.

What else do the people in Group A people have in common? They were hit by a one or two rifle bullets. What else do the people in Group B have in common? They were hit by fragments.

If a person is seriously injured or killed, it should not be assumed that they were hit by a fragment. Unless the evidence is overwhelming. Otherwise, the default belief should be that they were struck by a bullet.

If a person has minor gunshot injuries, it should not be assumed that they were hit by a bullet. Unless the evidence is overwhelming. Otherwise, the default belief should be that they were struck by a fragment.

Now, why is it we should assume that Trump was w by a bullet. But the four officers standing near him were hit by fragments?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 08:42:52 AM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2024, 08:40:39 AM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2024, 03:27:43 PM »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2024, 05:30:52 PM »
That's it?  A single early report.  I've seen nothing to confirm that four officers were injured by fragments.

And I have seen nothing to confirm that the four officers were not slightly injured by fragments.

Clearly, the media is biased in some way. Either they are biased against Trump, and so they do not follow up on this report because they know it would show that no one else was slightly injured, only Trump, strengthening the case that Trump may have been hit by a bullet. Or, they are biased for Trump, and so they ignore these early reports because they known any digging will confirm the minor wounds of the four officers, strengthening the case that they all were slightly wounded by fragments. In any case, the media is falling down on the job by not digging into this to report that this early report was false or confirmed.

Why would the media be biased in favor of Trump? Because they want a horse race. They anticipate that Trump will falter in the polls. Meaning they have to help Trump as much as they can now. Like by concentrating on Biden's age issues while ignoring Trump's.

I don't know what the truth is, but a lot points to Trump being wounded by a fragment.

* Trump was slightly wounded, which is more typical of wounds from fragments, not by rifle bullets.

* Reports of four others standing near Trump being slightly wounded as well.

* Trump not allowing the release of the medical reports on the treatment of his ear that evening. That is super suspicious. The strongest argument against the wound being caused by a bullet. If it was caused by a bullet, Trump would do whatever it took to show this to the public.

* Easier to capture an image of a slower moving fragment than a fast moving bullet, because the timing has to be so much more precise for a fast moving bullet.

* The unlikely location of a grazing wound.

Not all grazing wounds are equally probable. It is possible that one could be grazed along three inches of the inner upper arm, and three inches of the torso, caused by a bullet that passes just under the armpit. Possible, but it would require the person's torso to be pointed in a certain direction, with the arm slightly away from the body held just right. A grazing wound along the top of the shoulder or outer side of the arm is more probable.

Similarly a grazing wound of the ear, without also striking the skull, requires the head to be pointed in a certain direction, or it just can't work. But a fragment can do that because it is much more easily deflected than a bullet.

In any case, I don't think this is a slam dunk that this wound was caused by a rifle bullet.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 05:39:49 PM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2024, 05:30:52 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2024, 06:04:16 PM »
And I have seen nothing to confirm that the four officers were not slightly injured by fragments.

Clearly, the media is biased in some way. Either they are biased against Trump, and so they do not follow up on this report because they know it would show that no one else was slightly injured, only Trump, strengthening the case that Trump may have been hit by a bullet. Or, they are biased for Trump, and so they ignore these early reports because they known any digging will confirm the minor wounds of the four officers, strengthening the case that they all were slightly wounded by fragments. In any case, the media is falling down on the job by not digging into this to report that this early report was false or confirmed.

Why would the media be biased in favor of Trump? Because they want a horse race. They anticipate that Trump will falter in the polls. Meaning they have to help Trump as much as they can now. Like by concentrating on Biden's age issues while ignoring Trump's.

I don't know what the truth is, but a lot points to Trump being wounded by a fragment.

* Trump was slightly wounded, which is more typical of wounds from fragments, not by rifle bullets.

* Reports of four others standing near Trump being slightly wounded as well.

* Trump not allowing the release of the medical reports on the treatment of his ear that evening. That is super suspicious. The strongest argument against the wound being caused by a bullet. If it was caused by a bullet, Trump would do whatever it took to show this to the public.

* Easier to capture an image of a slower moving fragment than a fast moving bullet, because the timing has to be so much more precise for a fast moving bullet.

* The unlikely location of a grazing wound.

Not all grazing wounds are equally probable. It is possible that one could be grazed along three inches of the inner upper arm, and three inches of the torso, caused by a bullet that passes just under the armpit. Possible, but it would require the person's torso to be pointed in a certain direction, with the arm slightly away from the body held just right. A grazing wound along the top of the shoulder or outer side of the arm is more probable.

Similarly a grazing wound of the ear, without also striking the skull, requires the head to be pointed in a certain direction, or it just can't work. But a fragment can do that because it is much more easily deflected than a bullet.

In any case, I don't think this is a slam dunk that this wound was caused by a rifle bullet.

I've seen nothing in any other subsequent report to suggest that four officers were struck by fragments.  And there didn't appear to be any police officers near Trump.  Only secret service agents.  That doesn't appear to have happened.
Why would the media cover up injuries to police officers?  If you believe the media is biased in favor of Trump, you haven't been paying attention the last eight years.  The FBI has investigated and confirmed Trump was struck by a bullet.  There was nothing between Trump and the shooter to fragment.  The bullet appears to have grazed Trump.   Why is it unlikely that his ear would be grazed if the shooter was aiming for his head and he turned his head?  You have a lot of false and baseless premises here with a media conspiracy theory. 

The PA police indicated that three people were shot in addition to Trump.  There is no mention of any injuries to police officers.

Butler, PA – The Pennsylvania State Police today released the names of the three attendees shot during the attempted assassination of former President Trump at yesterday’s rally in Butler County.

The deceased victim was identified as Corey Comperatore, 50, of Sarver, PA. The second victim has been identified as 57-year-old David Dutch, of New Kensington, PA, who is currently listed in stable condition. The third victim was identified as 74-year-old James Copenhaver, of Moon Township, PA. He is also listed in stable condition.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 06:05:17 PM by Richard Smith »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2024, 10:24:23 PM »

What’s really amazing is the incredible ABSENCE of surveillance  cameras.

What’s really amazing is the incredible ABSENCE  of anyone actually IN the HQ room looking out the window that allowed an easy view of the ENTIRE side of roof that Crooks crawled up to, then RAN across, then took a prone position and slowly wormed his way up to the ridge line.

What’s really amazing is a police officer actually SEEING and CONFRONTING Crooks with the rifle in his hand and pointing it at the officer, and somehow this information does not get relayed IMMEDIATELY to the counter sniper team, The SS agents, and to Trump especially , nor does the officer attempt to reengage and climb on the roof again to attempt to get a shot at Crooks.


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2024, 12:39:37 AM »
I've seen nothing in any other subsequent report to suggest that four officers were struck by fragments.  And there didn't appear to be any police officers near Trump.  Only secret service agents.  That doesn't appear to have happened.
Why would the media cover up injuries to police officers?  If you believe the media is biased in favor of Trump, you haven't been paying attention the last eight years.  The FBI has investigated and confirmed Trump was struck by a bullet.  There was nothing between Trump and the shooter to fragment.  The bullet appears to have grazed Trump.   Why is it unlikely that his ear would be grazed if the shooter was aiming for his head and he turned his head?  You have a lot of false and baseless premises here with a media conspiracy theory. 

The PA police indicated that three people were shot in addition to Trump.  There is no mention of any injuries to police officers.

Butler, PA – The Pennsylvania State Police today released the names of the three attendees shot during the attempted assassination of former President Trump at yesterday’s rally in Butler County.

The deceased victim was identified as Corey Comperatore, 50, of Sarver, PA. The second victim has been identified as 57-year-old David Dutch, of New Kensington, PA, who is currently listed in stable condition. The third victim was identified as 74-year-old James Copenhaver, of Moon Township, PA. He is also listed in stable condition.




Well, here is a later story.

https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/pittsburgh-motorcycle-supervisors-removed-trump-rally/

Quote

2 Pittsburgh motorcycle officers removed from unit after Trump rally
By Mamie Bah

July 18, 2024 / 5:55 PM EDT / CBS Pittsburgh

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) -- The Pittsburgh Fraternal Order of Police is fiercely defending two of its own after the motorcycle supervisors who were part of former President Donald Trump's motorcade in Butler County on Saturday were removed from the unit.

"There's a dispute whether they had authorization to be there or if they decided on their own they were going to go," said Beth Pittinger, the executive director of the Pittsburgh Citizen Police Review Board. "We don't know how they got there."

The motorcycle supervisors have been transferred out of the cycle unit as that's being investigated.

Ten motorcycle officers were part of the former president's motorcade Saturday, the day would-be assassin Thomas Crooks fired from a building outside the security perimeter, killing Corey Comperatore, wounding the former president, others in the crowd and law enforcement. Four of them, including the two who have been transferred, were injured.

Robert Swartzwelder, the president of the Pittsburgh Fraternal Order of Police said in a statement: "In a time when we should be honoring the heroics of these officers, we've created some petty administrative investigation in the midst of a serious political race."

"They may have had permission to be there that we don't know," Pittinger told KDKA-TV's Mamie Bah. "That has to be established and the public has the right to know that when we are faced with a severe shortage of officers."

In response, the FOP has filed two grievances on behalf of the supervisors. One has been on the force for more than 30 years, the other nearly 20.

A spokesperson for Pittsburgh police said, "The transfers were unrelated to the rally. That was an administrative decision."
 
© 2024 CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.


So, here is a follow up report from five days after the July 13 shooting.

There were ten motorcycle police officers who were part of the protection of Trump. This article reiterates that four of the officer's were injured. The latest developement is that curiously, there is some dispute whether all ten officers had the proper authorization to be there. Two of the four injured officers  might not have had proper authorization and have been transferred to a different unit. Some of the other officers are upset about this because they believe proper procedures where followed. So, five days later, we are getting more details about these four injured officers. Two of them may or may not have had proper authorization to be there.

This does not sound like a story about imaginary officers. This story continues the previous story about four officers injured by debris. Except here they just refer to them a the four injured officers. And now two of the four may be in minor trouble.

I keep finding more and more stories about the four injured police officers, while you find no story about this original story being a mistake. How about this time, you find a story about the original story being a mistake and stop claiming this never happened without any evidence to back up your claim. Find something that says four police officers were never injured. Or were injured but by something other than flying debris.


As far as "no police officers near Trump" I saw a youtube video (see below) that shows, what appears to me to be a uniformed police officer walking pass the podium, in front of Trump, and out of view. So it does appear there were some police officers very close to Trump, and not just Secret Service Agents (as I had heard myself).

He appears right around the 1:00 mark. He is dressed in a black short sleeve shirt, with a vertical belt of some sort, walking behind the podium, so he was right in front of Trump, near his feet, a minute or two before the shots were fired.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 01:39:44 AM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: The Amazing Survival of Trump
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2024, 12:39:37 AM »