Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.

[John Mytton]

Well you WC believers still have to show some kind of experiment to replicate the CE 399 bullet cause the last one in 2003 where they fired a 6.5mm MC bullet thru 2 replica human torsos came out much more deformed than CE 399. And this even when they  left out a wrist bone and a thigh muscle that the bullet would have hit after exiting JC.

Now maybe it’s due to  their straight line trajectory from the TSBD shooting height into the JFK model NOT exiting from throat but instead  thru more material in the JFK chest cavity area that could possibly explain the more deformed bullet that was recovered.

So somebody needs to try another attempt or maybe several attempts with these same type torso models and include some material to account for wrist bone and thigh muscle.

Test the SBT again and test Andrew’s proposed 3 shot scenario also.

The only thing seems  conclusive is that  a 6.5 mm bullet fired at Z223 from the TSBD window to JFK and then to JC has almost  a straight trajectory line requiring very minimal zig zag if it exited the throat to hit JC. So at least the  old original CT sketch of a wildly zig zagging bullet  trajectory had been proved to be exaggerated by Dale Myers computer model and by the 2003 Beyond Conspiracy documentary experiment.

I’m not convinced about  the WC version of the SBT having a 1st preceding the Z224 shot because:
A. The patten dies not match the 1….2..3 sequence that 2/3 majority of ear witness remember.
B. Betzner nor Willis heard a shot prior to Z186.
C. a 1st shot missed the whole limo ( and bullet never found )  One possible  reason  imo  may be that the shooter accidentally squeezed  the trigger when he moved  from his seated position sitting on a box to place the rifle upon the 2 stacked boxes. The angle of the rifle at that moment could have been horizontal so the bullet sailed across the Dealey  plaza and is still buried somewhere.

I kind of like Andrew Masons alternative WC single shooter theory with  3 shots sequence of Z194- Z270 and Z313 because it’s more similar to the 1…..2..3 spacing pattern. But I’ve got problems with JCs leg position and how his hat was held in his right hand when he gets struck in Andrew’s scenario at Z270 and also where does that Z270 bullet go after it hits JCs wrist ?
And where is JCs right hand holding his hat when he is struck at Z270?

Replicating the human body synthetically is never going to produce 100% accuracy, and especially when each and every human will have different skin and bone densities. The Beyond the Magic Bullet documentary was simply an experiment to generally replicate what happened, because trying to find the precise path of the bullet through an exact copy of Kennedy and Connally was never going to happen, but the result of the bullet staying intact after coming close to what happened is a win for the SBF!

I don't think that their test bullet was "much more deformed"!?



JohnM

[Dan O'meara]

IIRC, Dale Myers created a computer simulation that showed how CE-399 damaged JBC's wrist.

Why don't you watch it?

And speaking of "twirling," why don't go sit on something and . . . aww . . . never mind.

Grow up.
There's an x-ray of JBC's wrist. It's there for all to see. There is zero evidence a bullet passed through it.
The hole in the back of JBC's shirt is a three eighths inch square:



This is the hole in the front of his jacket:



Other than stamping your little foot and insisting it's so, provide some evidence to support your bullsh!t "twirling" theory other than a Myers cartoon.

[Tom Graves]

Other than stamping your little foot . . .

You mean my size-15 little foot?

Provide some evidence to support your "twirling" theory.

Should I have said "rotating" or "spinning," instead?

How about "whirly gigging"?


Mr. SPECTER - Before proceeding to the other factors indicating point of entry and point of exit, Dr. Gregory, I call your attention to Commission Exhibit No. 399, which is a bullet and ask you first if you have had an opportunity to examine that earlier today?

Dr. GREGORY - I have.

Mr. SPECTER - What opinion, if any, do you have as to whether that bullet could have produced the wound on the Governor's right wrist and remained as intact as it is at the present time?

Dr. GREGORY - In examining this bullet, I find a small flake has been either knocked off or removed from the rounded end of the missile. I was told that this was removed for the purpose of analysis. The only other deformity which I find is at the base of the missile at the point where it Joined the cartridge carrying the powder, I presume, and this is somewhat flattened and deflected, distorted. There is some irregularity of the darker metal within which I presume to represent lead. The only way that this missile could have produced this wound in my view, was to have entered the wrist backward. Now, this is not inconsistent with one of the characteristics known for missiles which is to tumble. All missiles in flight have two motions normally, a linear motion from the muzzle of the gun to the target, a second motion which is a spinning motion having to do with maintaining the integrity of the initial linear direction, but if they strike an object they may be caused to turn in their path and tumble end over, and if they do, they tend to produce a greater amount of destruction within the strike time or the target, and they could possibly, if tumbling in air upon emergence, tumble into another target backward. That is the only possible explanation I could offer to correlate this missile with this particular wound.

Mr. SPECTER - Is them sufficient metallic substance missing from the back or rear end of that bullet to account for the metallic substance which you have described in the Governor's wrist?

Dr. GREGORY - It is possible but I don't know enough about the structure of bullets or this one in particular, to know what is a normal complement of lead or for this particular missile. It is irregular, but how much it may have lost, I have no idea.

Mr. DULLES - Would the nature of the entry wound give you any indication as to whether it entered backward or whether it entered forward?

Dr. GREGORY - My initial impression was that whatever produced the wound of the wrist was an irregular object, certainly not smooth nosed as the business end of this particular bullet is because of two things. The size of the wound of entrance, and the fact that it is irregular surfaced permitted it to pick up organic debris, materials, threads, and carry them into the wound with it. Now, you will note that Dr. Shaw earlier in his testimony and in all of my conversations with him, never did indicate that there was any such loss of material into the wrist, nor does the back of this coat which I have examined show that it lost significant amounts of cloth but I think the tear in this coat sleeve does imply that there were bits of fabric lost, and I think those were resident in the wrist. I think we recovered them.

Mr. SPECTER - Is the back of that bullet characteristic of an irregular missile so as to cause the wound in the wrist?

Dr. GREGORY - I would say that the back of this being fiat and having sharp edges is irregular and would possibly tend to tear tissues more than does an inclined plane such as this.

Mr. SPECTER - Would the back of the missile be sufficiently irregular to have caused the wound of the right wrist, in your opinion?

Dr. GREGORY - I think it could have; yes. It is possible.

Mr. SPECTER - Would it be consistent with your observations of the wrist for that missile to have penetrated and gone through the right wrist?

Dr. GREGORY - It is possible; yes. It appears to me since the wound of exit was a small laceration, that much of the energy of the missile that struck the Governor's wrist was expended in breaking the bone reducing its velocity sufficient so that while it could make an emergence through the underlying soft tissues on his wrist, it did not do great damage to them.

Mr. SPECTER - Is there any indication from the extent of the damage to the wrist whether the bullet was pristine, that is: was the wrist struck first in flight or whether there had been some reduction in the velocity of the missile prior to striking the wrist?

Dr. GREGORY - I would offer this opinion about a high velocity rifle bullet striking a forearm.

Mr. SPECTER - Permit me to inject factors which we have not put on the record although it has been brought to your attention previously: Assume this is a 6.5-millimeter missile which was shot from a rifle having a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,000 feet per second, with a distance of approximately 160 to 200 feet between the weapon and the victim; and answer the prior question, if you would, Dr. Gregory, with those factors in mind?

Dr. GREGORY - I would fully expect the first object struck by that missile to be very badly damaged, and especially if it were a rigid bone such as the wrist bone is, to. literally blow it apart. I have had some experience with rifle wound injuries of the forearm produced by this type of missile, and the last two which I attended myself have culminated in amputation of the limb because of the extensive damage produced by the missile as it passed through the arm. Considerably more than was evidenced in the Governor's case either by examination of the limb itself or an examination of these X-rays.

Mr. SPECTER - Now, as to the experience you had which you experienced which resulted in amputations, what was the range between the weapon and the victim's limb, if you know?

Dr. GREGORY - The range in those two instances, I concede was considerably shorter but I cannot give you the specific range. By short I mean perhaps no more than 15 or 20 yards at the most.

Mr. SPECTER - Would the difference between the 15 or 20 yards and the 160 to 250 feet make any difference in your opinion, though, as to the damage which would be inflicted on the wrist had that bullet struck it as the first point of impact?

Dr. GREGORY - No, sir; I don't think it would have made that much difference.