Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.

[Tom Mahon]

This is bumped for you Tommy.
Have you seen the light about your little study? Have you revised your 10.2 second belief?

So, what's at the heart of this paper that has got Tommy boy so moist.
It's an 'analysis' of a handful of people in the Z-film (ignoring the hundreds of other people shown who apparently don't count)
It's supposed to be an analysis of startled reactions to the sound of a shot but, as we shall see, very few of the reactions are actually startled.
In reality, this is nothing more than projecting an interpretation on to a few people turning their heads.
But don't take my word for it.
Here is the heart of the 'study':



The tables describe the 'reactions' of certain people beginning at various z-frames. All Roselle and Scearce had to do was compare these reactions with the testimonies of these people to very quickly discover that they were simply wishing their own interpretations onto the Z-film.
For instance, Jackie Kennedy said she wasn't even aware of a first shot until John Connally started screaming like "stuck pig".  So how Roselle and Scearce can interpret her movements as being a reaction to the loud sound of a shot is truly baffling.
John Connally testified that JFK was hit by the first shot. This clearly does not happen when Roselle and Scearce propose Connally is reacting to the first shot.
Why didn't they compare their subjective interpretations of what they thought they were seeing in the Z-film to the actual testimony of the people they were focusing on??

Roy Kellerman.
According to the study, Kellerman begins to react to the first shot around z148

"Begins leaning over and looking behind/down to the right"

This is what Kellerman had to say about the first shot in his WC testimony:

"As we turned off Houston onto Elm and made the short little dip to the left going down grade, as I said, we were away from buildings, and were there was a sign on the side of the road which I don't recall what it was or what it said, but we no more than passed that and you are out in the open, and there is a report like a firecracker, pop. And I turned my head to the right because whatever this noise was I was sure that it came from the right and perhaps into the rear..."

They were "away from the buildings", presumably meaning the TSBD building and there was a sign they had just passed and "you are out in the open".
The sign in question was the Thorntons Freeway sign.
The Tyler frame below shows the position of the presidential limo at z148. The Thornton sign is in the red circle.
The presidential limo in which Kellerman was riding has clearly not passed the Thornton sign. I'll leave it up to the reader to decide if it's "away from the buildings".



Does Kellerman's testimony match up with the findings of the study?
Not really.

George Hickey
According to the study, Hickey begins to react around z143/z144:

"Begins leaning over to the left looking down in the direction of the rear tire or ground"

This is what Hickey actually had to say about the first shot:

"I heard what seemed to me that a firecracker exploded to the right and rear. I stood partially up and turned to the rear to see if I could observe anything."

In the study, Roselle and Scearce believe Hickey's reaction to the first shot is to look down to the left. In reality, his reaction is completely opposite - he turns to the right rear.
In fact, there is photographic evidence of Hickey's reaction to the first shot:

In Altgens 6 we see Agents Landis, Ready and Hickey looking over their right shoulders towards the TSBD, presumably in response to the sound of gunfire:


Landis - "I heard what sounded like the report of a high-powered rifle from behind me, over my right shoulder...", "My first glance was at the President, as I was practically looking in his direction anyway...", "I immediately returned my gaze, over my right shoulder."

Ready - "I heard what appeared to be fire crackers going off from my position. I immediately turned to my right rear trying to locate the source but was not able to determine the exact location."

Hickey - "I heard what seemed to me that a firecracker exploded to the right and rear. I stood partially up and turned to the rear to see if I could observe anything. "

Each agent describes their immediate reactions to hearing the first shot, turning to look over their right shoulders looking towards where they felt the sound came from. This is exactly what we see in Altgens 6. However, when we take a closer look at Zapruder we see no meaningful reaction from them (Hickey looks briefly over the side of the car but then returns to his original position). The partial footage of the Z-film below focuses on the follow-up car. It runs from z133 to z207. At no point do we see any meaningful reaction from the agents mentioned above:



I can't be arsed debunking the remainder as the point has been made.
A first shot as early as Roselle and Scearce are proposing is a nonsense and it doesn't take too much effort to demonstrate that.

Dear "Useful Idiot" O'meara,

(Don't take it literally or too personally -- it's just an old KGB* expression for a gullible person who unwittingly helps its cause.)

It's too bad Roselle and Scearce didn't include Secret Service agent Glen Bennett in their study.

You remember him, don't you?

He's the guy who was sitting behind Dave Powers (who was sitting on the passenger-side jump seat) in the follow-up car and who said he heard what he thought was a firecracker (i.e., Oswald's first, missing-everything shot) after the limo turned onto Elm Street, and that he looked to his right and then straight ahead and said he saw a bullet strike JFK's back "about four inches below the shoulder" (i.e., CE-399, which wounded both JFK and JBC).

Remember?

Well, why don't you take another "close look" at the Zapruder film and determine in which frame Agent Bennett starts leaning his head to his right to get a good view of JFK around Powers?

Hmm?

*Today's SVR and FSB

Bennett wrote:

"At this point I heard what sounded like a firecracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another firecracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder."

[Dan O'meara]

I've edited it for you, xxxx xxxx.

Here it is:

When you posted: "Each agent describes their immediate reactions to hearing the first shot, turning to look over their right shoulders looking towards where they felt the sound came from. This is exactly what we see in Altgens-6. However, when we take a closer look at Zapruder we see no meaningful reaction from them (Hickey looks briefly over the side of the car but then returns to his original position). The partial footage of the Z-film below focuses on the follow-up car. It runs from z133 to z207. At no point do we see any meaningful reaction from the agents mentioned above," it's apparent that by "meaningful" you mean that said observable reactions don't make sense in your fanciful tinfoil-hat conspiracy-theory scenario.

Once again for xxxx xxxx: Photographic evidence trumps (pardon the pun) witnesses' highly malleable memories of a loud, unexpected chaotic event in which they correctly or incorrectly perceived their own lives were in danger.

Reminder: The last word rhymes with "muck."

Landis, Hickey and Ready react immediately to the first shot.
All three of them turn to their right and rear,
Altgens 6 shows them doing this.
This is an example of the photographic record and witness testimony being in perfect harmony. Something you don't seem to appreciate.
This immediate reaction - turning to their right rear is not shown in the Z-film and we see them until z-207.
All of this is a fact.
There is nothing fanciful.

Like a good little Nutter, you can't accept any evidence that contradicts your little belief system.
Even when multiple witness testimony is confirmed by the photographic record.

All three men state they turned to their right rear as a response to the first shot - fact.
All three men are shown turned to their right rear in Altgens 6 - fact.
The z-film does not show this movement - fact.


Do you agree that these three things are facts?
(I don't expect an answer to that anytime soon).

[Tom Mahon]

Landis, Hickey and Ready react immediately to the first shot.
All three of them turn to their right and rear,
Altgens 6 shows them doing this.
This is an example of the photographic record and witness testimony being in perfect harmony. Something you don't seem to appreciate.
This immediate reaction - turning to their right rear is not shown in the Z-film and we see them until z-207.
All of this is a fact.
There is nothing fanciful.

Like a good little Nutter, you can't accept any evidence that contradicts your little belief system.
Even when multiple witness testimony is confirmed by the photographic record.

All three men state they turned to their right rear as a response to the first shot - fact.
All three men are shown turned to their right rear in Altgens 6 - fact.
The z-film does not show this movement - fact.


Do you agree that these three things are facts?
(I don't expect an answer to that anytime soon).

Dear XXXX XXXX,

Repeat after me: "It doesn't matter much what people say timing-wise and sequence-wise after witnessing a startling, chaotic and traumatic event. What matters are their caught-on-film "startle" and conscious (i.e., non-"startle") reactions."

By the way, I guess you missed this:

Dear "Useful Idiot" O'meara,

(Don't take it literally or too personally -- it's just an old KGB* expression for a gullible person who unwittingly helps its cause.)

It's too bad Roselle and Scearce didn't include Secret Service agent Glen Bennett in their study.

You remember him, don't you?

He's the guy who was sitting behind Dave Powers (who was sitting on the passenger-side jump seat) in the follow-up car and who said he heard what he thought was a firecracker (i.e., Oswald's first, missing-everything shot) after the limo turned onto Elm Street. He said he looked to his right and then straight ahead and that he saw a bullet** strike JFK "about four inches below his right shoulder."

Remember?

Well, why don't you take another "close look" at the Zapruder film and determine in which frame Agent Bennett starts leaning his head to his right to get a good view of JFK around Powers?

Hmm?

To refresh your memory, this is what Bennett wrote:

"At this point I heard what sounded like a firecracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another firecracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder."

*Today's SVR and FSB

**CE-399, which wounded both JFK and JBC

[Dan O'meara]

Dear XXXX XXXX,

Repeat after me: "It doesn't matter much what people say after witnessing a startling, chaotic and traumatic event. What matters timing-wise and sequence-wise are their caught-on-film "startle" and conscious (i.e., non-"startle") reactions. D'oh."

I guess you missed this, xxxx xxxx:

Dear "Useful Idiot" O'meara,

(Don't take it literally or too personally -- it's just an old KGB* expression for a gullible person who unwittingly helps its cause.)

It's too bad Roselle and Scearce didn't include Secret Service agent Glen Bennett in their study.

You remember him, don't you?

He's the guy who was sitting behind Dave Powers (who was sitting on the passenger-side jump seat) in the follow-up car and who said he heard what he thought was a firecracker (i.e., Oswald's first, missing-everything shot) after the limo turned onto Elm Street, and that he looked to his right and then straight ahead and said he saw a bullet strike JFK's back "about four inches below the shoulder" (i.e., CE-399, which wounded both JFK and JBC).

Remember?

Well, why don't you take another "close look" at the Zapruder film and determine in which frame Agent Bennett starts leaning his head to his right to get a good view of JFK around Powers?

Hmm?

To refresh your memory, this is what Bennett wrote:

"At this point I heard what sounded like a firecracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another firecracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder."

*Today's SVR and FSB

Dear Useless Idiot (it doesn't matter whether you take it personally or not)

Maybe for you it is a pity they didn't use Bennett in their study but they didn't
Do you understand this point?
You're defense of their pointless study is that they didn't use Bennett?
You b!tch about the use of "highly malleable memories" and then do exactly that!
Rather than deal with the evidence I've presented that destroys the study you love so much, you try to introduce your own sad interpretation of someone who has nothing to do with anything.
You have no idea how weak that is.

But let's imagine that you're not talking complete horse$hit (which you clearly are), post a blow-up of the z-frame you believe shows Bennett looking round Powers because I don't see it.

And don't forget this:

All three men state they turned to their right rear as a response to the first shot - fact.
All three men are shown turned to their right rear in Altgens 6 - fact.
The z-film does not show this movement - fact.


Do you agree that these three things are facts?
(I don't expect an answer to that anytime soon).

[Tom Mahon]

Your defense of their pointless study is that they didn't use Bennett?

Roselle and Scearce couldn't use Bennett in their fine study because, although we can see him looking sharply to his right in Z-135, z-136, 137, and (most clearly) in Z-138, and we can see him looking straight ahead by Z-142, and we can see him tilt his head to his right to see around Powers from about Z-144-on, we can't see him in Z-133 or Z-134 due to the sprocket hole, so we don't know if he started looking sharply to his right in response to hearing the first shot or if he was already looking in that direction before the first shot rang out. The important thing is that he started tilting his head to his right to see around Powers to see if JFK was okay around Z-147, i.e., about 1.25 seconds after Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot at "Z-124." The time interval of 1.25 seconds (or slightly shorter) suggests that Bennett was already looking sharply to his right while "scanning the crowd," and that his turning his head and starting to look straight ahead by Z-142 was his conscious (i.e., non-"startle") reaction to the sounds of the first shot.   


Post a blow-up of the Z-frame you believe shows Bennett looking round Powers, because I don't see it.

Google "Costella Combined Edit" and go to Z-150 for a pretty clear one.

You're welcome, btw.


All three men [Landis, Ready and Hickey] state they turned to their right rear as a response to the first shot.

That's what their confused recollections told them to say, but when they say they turned around to the rear, they're obviously referring to what they did in response to the second shot, i.e., the one around Z-222.

Ready, however, gives us a clue that they were all wittingly or unwittingly referring to the second shot when he wrote (as you so kindly posted, above), "I heard what appeared to be firecrackers [plural] going off from my position. I immediately turned to my right rear [after the second "firecracker"] trying to locate the source but was not able to determine the exact location."

You do realize, don't you, that Altgens-6 equates to Z-255, 1.80 seconds after JFK and JBC were wounded by Oswald's second bullet, CE-399?


All three men are shown turned to their right rear in Altgens-6.

Correct.


The Z-film does not show this movement.

Correct, because by Z-200, i.e., 1.2 seconds before the second shot and 3 seconds before Altgens-6, the pertinent people (your Landis, Ready and Hickey) in the Secret Service follow-up car were no longer in the frame.

D'oh!

[Zeon Mason]

That overhead view Andrew Mason posted of how JC was oriented is an improbable position imo because:

A. Its unclear how the expensive Stetson hat in the right hand would be held if the right forearm is so close to the side door so as not to smush/ deform the hat which presumably JC would not wish to have happen to his iconic hat.

B. It’s doubtful JC would have been willing to twist his upper body almost 90 degree relative to legs because that would be likely very uncomfortable for an older man. The more comfortable position would be that JC legs are both turned approx 45 degree towards the right side door and that his right hand was holding his hat upside down with the well of the hat on the outside of his left leg. This position allow a bullet the go thru the wrist bone and into the inner thigh of the left leg without having to pass thru the well of the hat. And also with both legs already 45 degree angle then the upper torso twist would be much less effort.

Then there is the way the bullet that went thru JC exited from his right side of his chest and went thru the top of his right wrist bone without having passed thru the hat given that the Z film
Frames show that JC was gripping the hat upside down when he is reacting at Z226-230 ish  from either having heard or being hit by, the 1st shot (heard) it  at Z224 ( or at Z190 if Andrew’s theory)

As far this 10.2 sec shot spread idea, it’s 6 seconds longer than what the closest ear witness Harold Norman demonstrated with his boom click click sequence which is only about 4 seconds in duration.

[Charles Collins]

I believe that this is Agent Bennett looking back towards the western end of the TSBD in Betzner’s photo at about Z186.



I haven’t found another photo that shows he or any of the other agents looking back behind them (except during the shots on Elm Street). They are trained to scan the crowd and areas that they are approaching and adjacent to.

[Andrew Mason]

It's too bad Roselle and Scearce didn't include Secret Service agent Glen Bennett in their study.

You remember him, don't you?

He's the guy who was sitting behind Dave Powers (who was sitting on the passenger-side jump seat) in the follow-up car and who said he heard what he thought was a firecracker (i.e., Oswald's first, missing-everything shot) after the limo turned onto Elm Street. He said he looked to his right and then straight ahead and that he saw a bullet** strike JFK "about four inches below his right shoulder."

Remember?

Well, why don't you take another "close look" at the Zapruder film and determine in which frame Agent Bennett starts leaning his head to his right to get a good view of JFK around Powers?

Hmm?

To refresh your memory, this is what Bennett wrote:

"At this point I heard what sounded like a firecracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another firecracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder."

*Today's SVR and FSB

**CE-399, which wounded both JFK and JBC

SS Agent Glen Bennett is turned around looking back and upwards towards the TSBD in Betzner’s photo taken at approximately Z186.



Bennett was cited by the WC as a witness for the first shot missing JFK.  But he was never called by the WC and this is unfortunate  because he gave a statement on 23Nov63 that is different from his original notes taken at the time on 22Nov63. His original notes (CE1024 at 18H542) state:

• "At this point I heard a noise that immediately reminded me of a firecracker. I immediately, upon hearing the supposed fire cracker, looked at the Boss's car. At this exact time I saw a shot that hit the Boss about 4 inches down from the right shoulder; a second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the Boss's head."