Oswald took 10.2 seconds to fire all three shots.

[John Mytton]

Well you WC believers still have to show some kind of experiment to replicate the CE 399 bullet cause the last one in 2003 where they fired a 6.5mm MC bullet thru 2 replica human torsos came out much more deformed than CE 399. And this even when they  left out a wrist bone and a thigh muscle that the bullet would have hit after exiting JC.

Now maybe it’s due to  their straight line trajectory from the TSBD shooting height into the JFK model NOT exiting from throat but instead  thru more material in the JFK chest cavity area that could possibly explain the more deformed bullet that was recovered.

So somebody needs to try another attempt or maybe several attempts with these same type torso models and include some material to account for wrist bone and thigh muscle.

Test the SBT again and test Andrew’s proposed 3 shot scenario also.

The only thing seems  conclusive is that  a 6.5 mm bullet fired at Z223 from the TSBD window to JFK and then to JC has almost  a straight trajectory line requiring very minimal zig zag if it exited the throat to hit JC. So at least the  old original CT sketch of a wildly zig zagging bullet  trajectory had been proved to be exaggerated by Dale Myers computer model and by the 2003 Beyond Conspiracy documentary experiment.

I’m not convinced about  the WC version of the SBT having a 1st preceding the Z224 shot because:
A. The patten dies not match the 1….2..3 sequence that 2/3 majority of ear witness remember.
B. Betzner nor Willis heard a shot prior to Z186.
C. a 1st shot missed the whole limo ( and bullet never found )  One possible  reason  imo  may be that the shooter accidentally squeezed  the trigger when he moved  from his seated position sitting on a box to place the rifle upon the 2 stacked boxes. The angle of the rifle at that moment could have been horizontal so the bullet sailed across the Dealey  plaza and is still buried somewhere.

I kind of like Andrew Masons alternative WC single shooter theory with  3 shots sequence of Z194- Z270 and Z313 because it’s more similar to the 1…..2..3 spacing pattern. But I’ve got problems with JCs leg position and how his hat was held in his right hand when he gets struck in Andrew’s scenario at Z270 and also where does that Z270 bullet go after it hits JCs wrist ?
And where is JCs right hand holding his hat when he is struck at Z270?

Replicating the human body synthetically is never going to produce 100% accuracy, and especially when each and every human will have different skin and bone densities. The Beyond the Magic Bullet documentary was simply an experiment to generally replicate what happened, because trying to find the precise path of the bullet through an exact copy of Kennedy and Connally was never going to happen, but the result of the bullet staying intact after coming close to what happened is a win for the SBF!

I don't think that their test bullet was "much more deformed"!?



JohnM

[Dan O'meara]

IIRC, Dale Myers created a computer simulation that showed how CE-399 damaged JBC's wrist.

Why don't you watch it?

And speaking of "twirling," why don't go sit on something and . . . aww . . . never mind.

Grow up.
There's an x-ray of JBC's wrist. It's there for all to see. There is zero evidence a bullet passed through it.
The hole in the back of JBC's shirt is a three eighths inch square:



This is the hole in the front of his jacket:



Other than stamping your little foot and insisting it's so, provide some evidence to support your bullsh!t "twirling" theory other than a Myers cartoon.

[Tom Graves]

Other than stamping your little foot . . .

You mean my size-15 little foot?

Provide some evidence to support your "twirling" theory.

Should I have said "rotating" or "spinning," instead?

How about "whirly gigging"?


Mr. SPECTER - Before proceeding to the other factors indicating point of entry and point of exit, Dr. Gregory, I call your attention to Commission Exhibit No. 399, which is a bullet and ask you first if you have had an opportunity to examine that earlier today?

Dr. GREGORY - I have.

Mr. SPECTER - What opinion, if any, do you have as to whether that bullet could have produced the wound on the Governor's right wrist and remained as intact as it is at the present time?

Dr. GREGORY - In examining this bullet, I find a small flake has been either knocked off or removed from the rounded end of the missile. I was told that this was removed for the purpose of analysis. The only other deformity which I find is at the base of the missile at the point where it Joined the cartridge carrying the powder, I presume, and this is somewhat flattened and deflected, distorted. There is some irregularity of the darker metal within which I presume to represent lead. The only way that this missile could have produced this wound in my view, was to have entered the wrist backward. Now, this is not inconsistent with one of the characteristics known for missiles which is to tumble. All missiles in flight have two motions normally, a linear motion from the muzzle of the gun to the target, a second motion which is a spinning motion having to do with maintaining the integrity of the initial linear direction, but if they strike an object they may be caused to turn in their path and tumble end over, and if they do, they tend to produce a greater amount of destruction within the strike time or the target, and they could possibly, if tumbling in air upon emergence, tumble into another target backward. That is the only possible explanation I could offer to correlate this missile with this particular wound.

Mr. SPECTER - Is them sufficient metallic substance missing from the back or rear end of that bullet to account for the metallic substance which you have described in the Governor's wrist?

Dr. GREGORY - It is possible but I don't know enough about the structure of bullets or this one in particular, to know what is a normal complement of lead or for this particular missile. It is irregular, but how much it may have lost, I have no idea.

Mr. DULLES - Would the nature of the entry wound give you any indication as to whether it entered backward or whether it entered forward?

Dr. GREGORY - My initial impression was that whatever produced the wound of the wrist was an irregular object, certainly not smooth nosed as the business end of this particular bullet is because of two things. The size of the wound of entrance, and the fact that it is irregular surfaced permitted it to pick up organic debris, materials, threads, and carry them into the wound with it. Now, you will note that Dr. Shaw earlier in his testimony and in all of my conversations with him, never did indicate that there was any such loss of material into the wrist, nor does the back of this coat which I have examined show that it lost significant amounts of cloth but I think the tear in this coat sleeve does imply that there were bits of fabric lost, and I think those were resident in the wrist. I think we recovered them.

Mr. SPECTER - Is the back of that bullet characteristic of an irregular missile so as to cause the wound in the wrist?

Dr. GREGORY - I would say that the back of this being fiat and having sharp edges is irregular and would possibly tend to tear tissues more than does an inclined plane such as this.

Mr. SPECTER - Would the back of the missile be sufficiently irregular to have caused the wound of the right wrist, in your opinion?

Dr. GREGORY - I think it could have; yes. It is possible.

Mr. SPECTER - Would it be consistent with your observations of the wrist for that missile to have penetrated and gone through the right wrist?

Dr. GREGORY - It is possible; yes. It appears to me since the wound of exit was a small laceration, that much of the energy of the missile that struck the Governor's wrist was expended in breaking the bone reducing its velocity sufficient so that while it could make an emergence through the underlying soft tissues on his wrist, it did not do great damage to them.

Mr. SPECTER - Is there any indication from the extent of the damage to the wrist whether the bullet was pristine, that is: was the wrist struck first in flight or whether there had been some reduction in the velocity of the missile prior to striking the wrist?

Dr. GREGORY - I would offer this opinion about a high velocity rifle bullet striking a forearm.

Mr. SPECTER - Permit me to inject factors which we have not put on the record although it has been brought to your attention previously: Assume this is a 6.5-millimeter missile which was shot from a rifle having a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,000 feet per second, with a distance of approximately 160 to 200 feet between the weapon and the victim; and answer the prior question, if you would, Dr. Gregory, with those factors in mind?

Dr. GREGORY - I would fully expect the first object struck by that missile to be very badly damaged, and especially if it were a rigid bone such as the wrist bone is, to. literally blow it apart. I have had some experience with rifle wound injuries of the forearm produced by this type of missile, and the last two which I attended myself have culminated in amputation of the limb because of the extensive damage produced by the missile as it passed through the arm. Considerably more than was evidenced in the Governor's case either by examination of the limb itself or an examination of these X-rays.

Mr. SPECTER - Now, as to the experience you had which you experienced which resulted in amputations, what was the range between the weapon and the victim's limb, if you know?

Dr. GREGORY - The range in those two instances, I concede was considerably shorter but I cannot give you the specific range. By short I mean perhaps no more than 15 or 20 yards at the most.

Mr. SPECTER - Would the difference between the 15 or 20 yards and the 160 to 250 feet make any difference in your opinion, though, as to the damage which would be inflicted on the wrist had that bullet struck it as the first point of impact?

Dr. GREGORY - No, sir; I don't think it would have made that much difference.

[Zeon Mason]

Well I might agree with JohnM that the bullet recovered in that 2003 experiment is close enough to CE 399 if they had it go thru a wrist bone also when it exited the JC replica body.

But alas they left out that important detail and that’s unfortunate because I would also have preferred a body with arms and legs to examine the likely position of JC legs and how he was holding  his hat so that a bullet could go thru his wrist of the hand holding that hat without going thru the hat or even splattering some blood on the hat .

I’ve seen only one drawing of a position that is probably the only way it could be , which has JC with both legs turned towards the right door and he holds his hat upside down over the outside part of his left leg/thigh with his right hand fingers pressing down on the rim of the hat against the top of his thigh.

Thus when the Z224 bullet   exits from his right side chest it goes thru his wrist as  he is holding the hat still upside down with the rim covered by the fingers of his hand pressing the rim against the top of his left thigh, yet allowing the bullet to  pass thru the lower part of the palm of his hand, without going thru the hat or splattering blood on the hat.

Then the sudden gripping clutching by the right hand snatching the hat up in the air is more plausible imo because it’s simply an involuntary nervous reaction to the pain from the bullet  having gone thru his wrist.

[John Mytton]

Grow up.
There's an x-ray of JBC's wrist. It's there for all to see. There is zero evidence a bullet passed through it.
The hole in the back of JBC's shirt is a three eighths inch square:



This is the hole in the front of his jacket:



Other than stamping your little foot and insisting it's so, provide some evidence to support your bullsh!t "twirling" theory other than a Myers cartoon.

The hole in the back of JBC's shirt is a three eighths inch square:

What type of bullet leaves a square hole?

But seriously, I found this close-up photo and the author theorizes that the straight sides may have been cut for a sample but the other sides appear to be ragged and extend way past 3/8 of an inch.



After a little research into this, the resulting hole in fabric does not appear to be a direct reflection of calibre.







So in conclusion it seems to me that the ragged edges on Connally's shirt hole(measured from each extremity to be roughly 3/4 of an inch) are the result of a tumbling bullet which did not strike flush but at an angle which is totally consistent with Dr. Gregory's estimation of a linear wound with a length of 3/4 of an inch.

Mr. SPECTER - What did the wound of entry look like, Doctor?
Dr. GREGORY - It appeared to me that the wound of entry was sort of a linear wound, perhaps three-quarters of an inch in length with a rounded central portion. Whereas, the wound of exit was rather larger than this, perhaps an inch and a half across.

JohnM

[Royell Storing]

Well I might agree with JohnM that the bullet recovered in that 2003 experiment is close enough to CE 399 if they had it go thru a wrist bone also when it exited the JC replica body.

But alas they left out that important detail and that’s unfortunate because I would also have preferred a body with arms and legs to examine the likely position of JC legs and how he was holding  his hat so that a bullet could go thru his wrist of the hand holding that hat without going thru the hat or even splattering some blood on the hat .

I’ve seen only one drawing of a position that is probably the only way it could be , which has JC with both legs turned towards the right door and he holds his hat upside down over the outside part of his left leg/thigh with his right hand fingers pressing down on the rim of the hat against the top of his thigh.

Thus when the Z224 bullet   exits from his right side chest it goes thru his wrist as  he is holding the hat still upside down with the rim covered by the fingers of his hand pressing the rim against the top of his left thigh, yet allowing the bullet to  pass thru the lower part of the palm of his hand, without going thru the hat or splattering blood on the hat.

Then the sudden gripping clutching by the right hand snatching the hat up in the air is more plausible imo because it’s simply an involuntary nervous reaction to the pain from the bullet  having gone thru his wrist.

  You bring up, "the likely position of JC legs....". There's no way Connally could spin around and have his upper torso pointing directly at JFK. There simply is Not the space between the Connally Jump Seat and the side of the JFK Limo to permit him to execute this pirouette move. Just look at the way they had to gently close the door after they all were seated inside the JFK Limo at Love Field. Plus, Connally was 46 yrs old at  the time, and then you have the issue of Connally also holding onto his stetson while he is spinning like a top to go face-to-face with JFK behind him. Oh yeah, and don't forget that Hump down the middle of the JFK Limo. People consistently want to move Connally "inboard"? The middle and then some of the JFK Limo is taken up by that Hump running down the car.

[Charles Collins]

Well I might agree with JohnM that the bullet recovered in that 2003 experiment is close enough to CE 399 if they had it go thru a wrist bone also when it exited the JC replica body.

But alas they left out that important detail and that’s unfortunate because I would also have preferred a body with arms and legs to examine the likely position of JC legs and how he was holding  his hat so that a bullet could go thru his wrist of the hand holding that hat without going thru the hat or even splattering some blood on the hat .

I’ve seen only one drawing of a position that is probably the only way it could be , which has JC with both legs turned towards the right door and he holds his hat upside down over the outside part of his left leg/thigh with his right hand fingers pressing down on the rim of the hat against the top of his thigh.

Thus when the Z224 bullet   exits from his right side chest it goes thru his wrist as  he is holding the hat still upside down with the rim covered by the fingers of his hand pressing the rim against the top of his left thigh, yet allowing the bullet to  pass thru the lower part of the palm of his hand, without going thru the hat or splattering blood on the hat.

Then the sudden gripping clutching by the right hand snatching the hat up in the air is more plausible imo because it’s simply an involuntary nervous reaction to the pain from the bullet  having gone thru his wrist.

I am going from memory only, but I do remember seeing a photo of JBC’s hat hanging in someone’s office and it did have some blood splatter on it. The blood could have come from his chest wound or his wrist, or both.

Also, from memory only, I remember that the 2003 experiment had two broken ribs instead of just the one. And I do believe that they had a block set up with multiple “wrist bones” in it. But I do not remember whether or not the bullet actually hit one of them.