If I Had Planned The Conspiracy ...

[John Mytton]

Double HUH? Neither Police Officer lied!

Hilarious! So, McDonald can give a revolver to Carroll without Carroll knowing who gave it to him? Are you for real?

Carroll said he grabbed a pistol pointing at him.

Just try to be honest for once, John.

Triple HUH? For McDonald to be proved to have lied, then you need evidence that Carroll said he received the pistol from Officer X or perpetrator Y.

• McDonald saw who he gave the pistol to, Officer Carroll.

• Carroll understandably being focused on a pistol pointed at him didn't see who was holding the pistol.

As I said NOBODY lied.

The following images of Oswald's recreated arrest come from the Ruby and Oswald telemovie and the JFK movie. Another interesting observation is how many purely innocent men act this aggressively to an approaching cop and how many would then use their concealed weapon in an attempt to kill this Officer? And just one more thought, if the Dallas Police was involved with the conspiracy then this would be the perfect time to eliminate the "Patsy" but instead, the Dallas Police did everything in their power to keep Oswald alive and gave Oswald the chance to talk to the media and even went one step further and let Oswald have a midnight press conference! Hooray for the Dallas Police!





JohnM

[Jake Maxwell]

Here... give this one a try:

Yes, Earl Warren (1891-1974), the 14th Chief Justice of the United States, was a Freemason. He was active in Freemasonry, rising to become the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of California.

Yes, J. Edgar Hoover, the first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), was indeed a dedicated Freemason. He was initiated as a Master Mason on November 9, 1920, at Federal Lodge No. 1 in Washington, D.C. Over his lifetime, Hoover received several prestigious honors within the Masonic fraternity. In 1955, he was coroneted a 33rd Degree Inspector General Honorary by the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Southern Masonic Jurisdiction of the United States (AASR-SMJ).

Yes, Bill Decker, who served as Sheriff of Dallas County from 1956 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons. He was affiliated with Dallas Lodge No. 760, where he was listed among notable members in the field of law enforcement.
Additionally, Decker was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason, indicating a high level of achievement within the Scottish Rite branch of Freemasonry.

Yes, Lyndon B. Johnson was a Freemason. He was initiated into Johnson City Lodge No. 561 in Johnson City, Texas, in 1937. However, his connection to Freemasonry was somewhat limited, and he never became deeply involved in the organization. Johnson was reportedly more focused on his political career, and while he was a member, he did not prominently participate in Masonic activities.

Yes, Jesse E. Curry, who served as Chief of the Dallas Police Department from 1960 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons.

Yes, Arlen Specter, who served as a U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania from 1981 to 2011, was affiliated with Freemasonry. According to the Masonic Library and Museum of Pennsylvania, he is listed among notable Freemasons from Philadelphia.
Additionally, the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania's Freemason Magazine mentions that Specter received citations from the office of Pennsylvania U.S. Senator, Arlen Specter, among other representatives.

And check out these Warren Commission Freemasons:
Allen Dulles: The former CIA Director and a commission member, Dulles was associated with the Freemasons. His involvement in intelligence and international affairs was complemented by his participation in various fraternal organizations.

John McCloy: Serving as the High Commissioner for Germany post-World War II, McCloy was linked to Freemasonry. His roles in both the public and private sectors were influenced by his affiliations with such organizations.

Gerald Ford: Before becoming President, Ford was a U.S. Congressman and a member of the Warren Commission. He was initiated into Freemasonry in 1949, reflecting his engagement with fraternal societies.

Hale Boggs: A Congressman from Louisiana, Boggs was known to have connections with Freemasonry, which influenced his political and personal life.

Richard Russell: Serving as a Senator from Georgia, Russell's involvement with Freemasonry is documented, highlighting his commitment to its principles.

John Cooper: A Senator from Kentucky, Cooper's affiliation with Freemasonry is noted, reflecting the organization's influence in his personal and professional endeavors.

[Jake Maxwell]

Here... give this one a try:

Yes, Earl Warren (1891-1974), the 14th Chief Justice of the United States, was a Freemason. He was active in Freemasonry, rising to become the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of California.

Yes, J. Edgar Hoover, the first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), was indeed a dedicated Freemason. He was initiated as a Master Mason on November 9, 1920, at Federal Lodge No. 1 in Washington, D.C. Over his lifetime, Hoover received several prestigious honors within the Masonic fraternity. In 1955, he was coroneted a 33rd Degree Inspector General Honorary by the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Southern Masonic Jurisdiction of the United States (AASR-SMJ).

Yes, Bill Decker, who served as Sheriff of Dallas County from 1956 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons. He was affiliated with Dallas Lodge No. 760, where he was listed among notable members in the field of law enforcement.
Additionally, Decker was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason, indicating a high level of achievement within the Scottish Rite branch of Freemasonry.

Yes, Lyndon B. Johnson was a Freemason. He was initiated into Johnson City Lodge No. 561 in Johnson City, Texas, in 1937. However, his connection to Freemasonry was somewhat limited, and he never became deeply involved in the organization. Johnson was reportedly more focused on his political career, and while he was a member, he did not prominently participate in Masonic activities.

Yes, Jesse E. Curry, who served as Chief of the Dallas Police Department from 1960 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons.

Yes, Arlen Specter, who served as a U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania from 1981 to 2011, was affiliated with Freemasonry. According to the Masonic Library and Museum of Pennsylvania, he is listed among notable Freemasons from Philadelphia.
Additionally, the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania's Freemason Magazine mentions that Specter received citations from the office of Pennsylvania U.S. Senator, Arlen Specter, among other representatives.

And check out these Warren Commission Freemasons:
Allen Dulles: The former CIA Director and a commission member, Dulles was associated with the Freemasons. His involvement in intelligence and international affairs was complemented by his participation in various fraternal organizations.

John McCloy: Serving as the High Commissioner for Germany post-World War II, McCloy was linked to Freemasonry. His roles in both the public and private sectors were influenced by his affiliations with such organizations.

Gerald Ford: Before becoming President, Ford was a U.S. Congressman and a member of the Warren Commission. He was initiated into Freemasonry in 1949, reflecting his engagement with fraternal societies.

Hale Boggs: A Congressman from Louisiana, Boggs was known to have connections with Freemasonry, which influenced his political and personal life.

Richard Russell: Serving as a Senator from Georgia, Russell's involvement with Freemasonry is documented, highlighting his commitment to its principles.

John Cooper: A Senator from Kentucky, Cooper's affiliation with Freemasonry is noted, reflecting the organization's influence in his personal and professional endeavors.

And this one...

Yes, Abraham Zapruder, known for filming the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, was a Freemason and held the 33rd degree in the Scottish Rite. He was also associated with the Shriners, a Masonic organization.

[Mitch Todd]

I've known plenty of attorneys in my life

You sound like somebody who says "I know the law" because a guy I know is a lawyer". Do you not understand just how stupid that statement is?

I know a few highly successfull business men, so, by your reasoning, that makes me a successfull business man, right?

McDonald testified that he gave the gun to Carroll while the scrum was going on

No, he didn't.

Carroll said that he grabbed the gun from someone who was holding the weapon out from inside the scrum.

Which does not match the claim you made about McDonald and it demonstrates that Carroll didn't know who that somebody was.

Those stories match, even if not perfectly.

No, they don't match at all.

Carroll said he took the gun to the patrol car and gave it to Hill.

True, to some extend. Carroll give Hill a (not "the") revolver and told him he was told that it was the revolver taken from Oswald. Details matter!

Hill and Carroll together drove back to City Hall and took the gun to the Personnel Bureau office where they wrote out reports on the arrest. Hill, Carroll, McDonald, and Bentley put their ID mark on the revolver when they gave it over to Det. Baker in the Homicide office.

The problem is that Hill (and Carroll) did not take the revolver to the Personnel Bureau office straight away. In fact, Hill, carried it around (showing it to the media) for more than an hour and then presented a (not "the") revolver to the men at the Personnel Bureau office.

That is a valid chain of possession, no matter what you seem to want to think.

No it isn't! A chain of custody is unequivocal. This one isn't! You've got Carroll giving Hill a revolver, which he does not know from whom it was taken and saying to Hill he was told it was Oswald's revolver. Then you have Hill who (as the official story goes) carries a revolver on his person for no particular reason instead of delivering it to the evidence room upon arrival at the police station. And then, more than an hour after his arrival, Hill produces a revolver to other officers who mark it. Btw some of those officers als marked the grey jacket despite the fact that they were never part of that chain of custody.

What you have here is no chain of custody.... it's Swiss cheese!

MW: You sound like somebody who says "I know the law" because a guy I know is a lawyer". Do you not understand just how stupid that statement is?

What I said is that I've asked lawyers I've known about this particular  issue. Somehow you think it's "stupid" ask a lawyer about a legal issue, which goes to show who's really acting stupidly here.

And what I said about the pistol's known chain of possession is correct. Mytton's already set you right on McDonald giving the gun to Carroll, and your notion that Hill somehow disappeared with it the reappeared is similarly incorrect.

[Dan O'meara]

Here... give this one a try:

Yes, Earl Warren (1891-1974), the 14th Chief Justice of the United States, was a Freemason. He was active in Freemasonry, rising to become the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of California.

Yes, J. Edgar Hoover, the first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), was indeed a dedicated Freemason. He was initiated as a Master Mason on November 9, 1920, at Federal Lodge No. 1 in Washington, D.C. Over his lifetime, Hoover received several prestigious honors within the Masonic fraternity. In 1955, he was coroneted a 33rd Degree Inspector General Honorary by the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Southern Masonic Jurisdiction of the United States (AASR-SMJ).

Yes, Bill Decker, who served as Sheriff of Dallas County from 1956 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons. He was affiliated with Dallas Lodge No. 760, where he was listed among notable members in the field of law enforcement.
Additionally, Decker was a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason, indicating a high level of achievement within the Scottish Rite branch of Freemasonry.

Yes, Lyndon B. Johnson was a Freemason. He was initiated into Johnson City Lodge No. 561 in Johnson City, Texas, in 1937. However, his connection to Freemasonry was somewhat limited, and he never became deeply involved in the organization. Johnson was reportedly more focused on his political career, and while he was a member, he did not prominently participate in Masonic activities.

Yes, Jesse E. Curry, who served as Chief of the Dallas Police Department from 1960 to 1966, was a member of the Freemasons.

Yes, Arlen Specter, who served as a U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania from 1981 to 2011, was affiliated with Freemasonry. According to the Masonic Library and Museum of Pennsylvania, he is listed among notable Freemasons from Philadelphia.
Additionally, the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania's Freemason Magazine mentions that Specter received citations from the office of Pennsylvania U.S. Senator, Arlen Specter, among other representatives.

And check out these Warren Commission Freemasons:
Allen Dulles: The former CIA Director and a commission member, Dulles was associated with the Freemasons. His involvement in intelligence and international affairs was complemented by his participation in various fraternal organizations.

John McCloy: Serving as the High Commissioner for Germany post-World War II, McCloy was linked to Freemasonry. His roles in both the public and private sectors were influenced by his affiliations with such organizations.

Gerald Ford: Before becoming President, Ford was a U.S. Congressman and a member of the Warren Commission. He was initiated into Freemasonry in 1949, reflecting his engagement with fraternal societies.

Hale Boggs: A Congressman from Louisiana, Boggs was known to have connections with Freemasonry, which influenced his political and personal life.

Richard Russell: Serving as a Senator from Georgia, Russell's involvement with Freemasonry is documented, highlighting his commitment to its principles.

John Cooper: A Senator from Kentucky, Cooper's affiliation with Freemasonry is noted, reflecting the organization's influence in his personal and professional endeavors.

You can add David Harold Byrd to this list. The owner of the building from which the assassination occurred and close friend of the man who benefited most from JFK's death - Lyndon Johnson - was, according to FBI files, "a Mason (32nd degree, Shriner)". He also had a mutual fan club going with Hoover, with whom he corresponded many times.

[Martin Weidmann]

MW: You sound like somebody who says "I know the law" because a guy I know is a lawyer". Do you not understand just how stupid that statement is?

What I said is that I've asked lawyers I've known about this particular  issue. Somehow you think it's "stupid" ask a lawyer about a legal issue, which goes to show who's really acting stupidly here.

And what I said about the pistol's known chain of possession is correct. Mytton's already set you right on McDonald giving the gun to Carroll, and your notion that Hill somehow disappeared with it the reappeared is similarly incorrect.

Read what I actually said;

You sound like somebody who says "I know the law" because a guy I know is a lawyer"

What I said is that I've asked lawyers I've known about this particular  issue.

What particular issue? That's way too generic. Just like with most aspects of the law, the devil is in the details! The quality of the question determines the quality of the answer!

Did you ask a lawyer, what effect it would have on a chain of custody, when McDonald and Carroll marked a revolver presented to them at the Personnel Office some two hours after Oswald was arrested?

Somehow you think it's "stupid" ask a lawyer about a legal issue,

So, now you know what I think? Really? But to answer your question, no it's not stupid to ask a lawyer about a legal issue. What is actually stupid is the appeal to authority fallacy you used it for.

And what I said about the pistol's known chain of possession is correct.

Who made that determination? You or the lawyers you've asked?

Mytton's already set you right on McDonald giving the gun to Carroll,

No he didn't. He made the same mistake you are making.

and your notion that Hill somehow disappeared with it the reappeared is similarly incorrect.

If Hill did not disappear with the revolver between the time he arrived with Oswald at the police station and his presentation of a revolver at the Personnel Office some two hours later, then where exactly was he?

[John Iacoletti]

The chain of custody requires that from the moment the evidence is collected, every transfer of evidence from person to person be documented and that it be provable that nobody else could have accessed that evidence.

Great.  So you don't understand what "documented" means, or what "provable that nobody else could have accessed that evidence" means.  Not to mention what "confirmed" means.

That explains a lot.

Now John, tell me where in this confirmed "chain of custody" where there is any possibility where the pistol was substituted and don't forget there is a paper trail which has Oswald ordering and having a pistol sent to his PO Box which required pick-up from Railway Express's Dallas office.

No, there is no "paper trail" showing that any "pistol" was sent to any PO Box or picked up by Oswald.

By the way John, don't forget the only person who orders a pistol with an oversized barrel is someone who wants to get away with murder.

There no need to "remember" some claim you just pulled out of your azz.

[John Iacoletti]

Seriously? So the "conspirators" invented an alias which added a redundant extra step which makes the entire process even more complicated, when they could have just used the name Oswald was born with?
The only person who invents an alias for himself is someone who wants to divert away from himself. DUH!

Nice strawman.  You trying to take the title away from Strawman "Smith"?

Is this supposed to be evidence of Oswald using Hidell as an alias for himself?

Besides Holmes spells it out quite clearly that mail with the correct address is placed in your PO Box because what the heck is a postal worker gonna do, send it back to the sender? LOL!

FBI informant Holmes' assertion was at odds with the postal regulations at the time.