Any CIA disinformation agents here?

[Lance Payette]

I'm not in love with any theory, as you say you are... I'm in love with the truth of the matter... and if we learned anything from the last presidency, it's that government officials, elected and appointed, will lie, deceive, obfuscate and pardon... in order to keep themselves, friends and family from being investigated... and to keep the truth from coming out...

Bear in mind that in the case of the JFKA you are talking about an incredible diversity of Presidents, CIA Directors, Directors of National Intelligence and whatnot, representing both political parties and widely divergent backgrounds, over a period of 60 years - ALL hellbent to keep the lid on the Dark Truth about the JFKA??? I once started a thread at the Ed Forum about who all these folks actually were and how absurd the notion that they were all in cahoots really is. For that to have any plausibility, the Dark Truth would have to be something along the lines of "JFK was an alien and the planet will be incinerated in five seconds if this is ever revealed" (wait, is that an actual theory? was Umbrella Man an alien?).

Anyway, just in case anyone is interested, here is one of the classic examples from ufology. For "Bennewitz," substitute "Harvey & Lee fan" and you'll get the idea. The source is https://social-epistemology.com/2023/08/10/conspiracy-theory-and-the-bodyguard-of-lies-the-bennewitz-matter-mark-d-west/.

According to multiple sources, a former special agent for the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Richard Doty, said that in the 1980s, he was given the assignment to create fake documents and give false information to UFO researchers, including a scientist and entrepreneur named Paul Bennewitz.

In early 1980, Bennewitz became involved in observing and filming objects which he had sighted on the ground and in the air near Kirtland Air Force Base and the Manzano mountain range near Albuquerque, New Mexico. Bennewitz, by dint of documents provided by a man named Richard Doty, came to believe that he had stumbled upon a conspiracy by the government to keep secret knowledge they had of alien contact in which they were engaged, including technology transfers, the construction of UFO bases, and governmental acquiescence in alien abduction of humans; these stories were widely distributed within the UFO community and became part of the lore of that group, finding widespread distribution in popular media. The conspiracy in which Bennewitz was actually embroiled was a disinformation campaign by the AFOSI and Doty, their agent, to conceal the development of secret technologies at a nearby base by providing counterfactual information to Bennewitz; that information drove Bennewitz to a nervous breakdown. Despite Doty’s admission of the AFOSI conspiracy, the tales concocted by Doty and others in the AFOSI have come to serve as the basis for a variety of broadly-reported UFO 'contactee' stories up to the current day.

[Lance Payette]

I'm not in love with any theory, as you say you are... I'm in love with the truth of the matter... and if we learned anything from the last presidency, it's that government officials, elected and appointed, will lie, deceive, obfuscate and pardon... in order to keep themselves, friends and family from being investigated... and to keep the truth from coming out...

Wait a minute! You're missing the whole point. You and I are actually in "violent agreement," as a friend of mine always says. I absolutely agree that government officials are lying, obfuscating, pardoning ne'er-do-wells. I absolutely agree they may well resort to disinformation tactics. I simply believe - and I'm sure you'll agree after you've pondered it deeply - that in the case of the JFKA said disinformation agents are far more likely to be promoting wacky theories like Harvey & Lee and Prayer Alien than attempting to prop up the Lone Nut narrative.

[Jake Maxwell]

Wait a minute! You're missing the whole point. You and I are actually in "violent agreement," as a friend of mine always says. I absolutely agree that government officials are lying, obfuscating, pardoning ne'er-do-wells. I absolutely agree they may well resort to disinformation tactics. I simply believe - and I'm sure you'll agree after you've pondered it deeply - that in the case of the JFKA said disinformation agents are far more likely to be promoting wacky theories like Harvey & Lee and Prayer Alien than attempting to prop up the Lone Nut narrative.

Lance... I'm with you... Thanks for clarifying and being cordial until I fully understood your thoughts...

[Tom Graves]

The lunatic fringe at the Ed Forum - notably one of the current moderators, but he's not alone - is obsessed with the idea that internet forums and specifically JFKA forums are literally teeming with paid CIA disinformation agents posing as Lone Nutters. The EF loons worship at the altar of someone named Cass R. Sunstein. This was a new name to me, but apparently he suggested the idea years ago.

Because I'm sane, I find this notion wildly implausible. If it's true, hopefully Elon and DOGE will soon get to the bottom of it and stop the CIA from wasting $30 billion annually on internet trolls so the money can be better spent on a fleet of Tesla cybertrucks.

In the meantime, however, yours truly would like to get in on the gig if possible. Are any of my fellow Lone Nutters here on the payroll? How much are you paid? Who do I contact? Just send me a PM if outing yourself in public would violate your contract and cause your name to be added to the list of Mysterious JFK-Related Deaths.

Let's be serious here, folks: If the CIA actually had the inclination and resources to sponsor legions of internet trolls, do you really think said trolls would be posing as Lone Nutters? Or would they pose as absolute lunatics, people who believe things like Harvey & Lee and Prayer Person and Jim Garrison and Other Assorted Nonsense, thereby embarrassing the JFKA community and causing all CT efforts to be laughed at?

That's right, The Caped Factoid Buster hereby accuses the EF loons and anyone here of similar CT ilk of being CIA disinformation agents! Prove you aren't or shut up. I'm looking at you, EF forum moderators, because there is no way anyone this side of an asylum actually believes the absurdities you purport to believe. Promoting Harvey & Lee is, ipso facto, proof that you receive $750 a month from the CIA and have a red telephone with a direct line to Langley. Prove you don't!

(On the small chance that any fellow Lone Nutters actually are on the payroll, however, do let me know how it works because the price of Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Ale has simply gone through the roof since The Donald was elected.)

Anyway, this video was recently posted at EF and will confirm your darkest suspicions:

My handler told me not to tell you.

[Jake Maxwell]

I don't doubt that the US and many other countries have programs designed to influence public opinion.  I just don't see any incentive, however, to do so in the JFK assassination context 6o years after the fact. Why bother?  What difference does it make to anyone in government today what anyone believes happened in 1963?  Most of them weren't even born.  Intelligence agencies are notoriously secretive by nature.  They don't want to reveal what they had for lunch today.  The JFK files could have information relating to sources and methods that I can understand that they might not want to reveal even after 60 years.  It's not because they are engaged in an endless JFK conspiracy cover up, though.

What difference does it make to anyone in government today what anyone believes happened in 1963?

Isn't that the ultimate question?

Which raises another: Why have there been persistent efforts to keep the public from knowing all there is to know about the assassination of our president, which happened over 60 years ago?

Yeah... these are the questions.

And another question: "Why shouldn't we know "the sources?"

Every law-abiding citizen should want to know "the sources" involved in either the assassination of their president or the cover-up... and should want to know "the methods" used for either the assassination or the cover-up or perhaps, the framing of Oswald.

To claim that such secrecy of "sources" and "methods" is an effort to protect national security is most likely the reason given by those who are trying to hide something - to protect prominent names or government agencies or some other entity.

Furthermore, national security is jeopardized MOST when "sources" and "methods" are protected from exposure.
THAT is what jeopardizes national security... as well as the security of every citizen who might be framed and blamed.

And who has any trust in anything government officials say, when the highest ranking law enforcement official dictates a memo THE DAY AFTER the assassination, that says:

(On November 23, 1963) "The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."

THE DAY AFTER!

If that doesn't concern you... Whew!... I'm not sure any rational conversation about this can be productive...

[Tom Sorensen]

Does anyone here believe that Bugliosi was CIA sponsered?

[Lance Payette]

Lance... I'm with you... Thanks for clarifying and being cordial until I fully understood your thoughts...

I think it's pretty unlikely the CIA would concern itself with the JFKA at all, at least at the level of hiring faux Lone Nutters to haunt internet forums. But if they did, it makes far more sense that the disinformation agents would be H&L types who embarrass the entire CT effort. The Paul Bennewitz case really is instructive. When he stumbled upon secret military activities, the AFOSI didn't simply try to convince him these weren't secret military activities. No, they led him into near-insanity with tales of alien treaties, underground alien bases and all the rest. The Dulce Underground Alien Base was a major, major story in the UFO community at the time and still haunts more serious UFO research efforts. It was clearly intended to disrupt and embarrass - and it DID, in spades. In fact, I'm going to start a thread about the uncanny parallels between the Roswell UFO case and the JFKA. Most CTers have no real idea as to how the Conspiracy Game operates in other arenas - i.e., exactly the way it operates in the JFKA. This doesn't mean there wasn't a conspiracy, but it is reason for caution before diving headfirst down the conspiracy rabbit hole.

I try to have fun with this because the CT community is so grimly humorless and it never, ever occurs to them that the lunatic fringes of their own community are where CIA disinformation agents, if there were any, would likely be found.

[Richard Smith]

What difference does it make to anyone in government today what anyone believes happened in 1963?

Isn't that the ultimate question?

Which raises another: Why have there been persistent efforts to keep the public from knowing all there is to know about the assassination of our president, which happened over 60 years ago?

Yeah... these are the questions.

And another question: "Why shouldn't we know "the sources?"

Every law-abiding citizen should want to know "the sources" involved in either the assassination of their president or the cover-up... and should want to know "the methods" used for either the assassination or the cover-up or perhaps, the framing of Oswald.

To claim that such secrecy of "sources" and "methods" is an effort to protect national security is most likely the reason given by those who are trying to hide something - to protect prominent names or government agencies or some other entity.

Furthermore, national security is jeopardized MOST when "sources" and "methods" are protected from exposure.
THAT is what jeopardizes national security... as well as the security of every citizen who might be framed and blamed.

And who has any trust in anything government officials say, when the highest ranking law enforcement official dictates a memo THE DAY AFTER the assassination, that says:

(On November 23, 1963) "The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."

THE DAY AFTER!

If that doesn't concern you... Whew!... I'm not sure any rational conversation about this can be productive...

It is possible that intelligence sources that were used to investigate Oswald's connection to Russia, Cuba, and the mob are still alive.  The lives of those people and their families might be at risk if their identities became known.  Again, though, intelligence agencies are secretive by nature.  Their inclination is to never disclose any information.  Nothing good can come from that from their perspective.  You are conflating that with having something to hide about the JFK assassination.  They are not the same thing.  Once the remaining documents are released and they do not provide any evidence of a conspiracy, will you be satsified that LHO acted alone?  My guess is no.