A hole in Bledsoe's story?

[Martin Weidmann]

So Oswald was on the bus as confirmed by a witness?  He had a hole in his shirt that she recognized etc.  No one here is saying that was the product of lies and fakery on behalf of the authorities to frame Oswald?  No one?  LOL.

So Oswald was on the bus as confirmed by a witness?

Well, that's what Bledsoe said. All we have is her word for it.

He had a hole in his shirt that she recognized etc.

In her affidavit of 11/23/63 she says nothing about Oswald's shirt.
That only came into play later and her testimony about it is at best extremely confusing.

No one here is saying that was the product of lies and fakery on behalf of the authorities to frame Oswald?

What was "the product of lies and fakery"?

As per usual you completely miss the point. This was never about placing Oswald on the bus where Bledsoe saw him.

It was all about trying to put Oswald's arrest shirt (with the hole in the right sleeve) on him while he was on the bus.

[Richard Smith]

So this entire complex fantasy is about trying to put a shirt on Oswald while he was on the bus?  They stage Oswald's presence on a bus, somehow convince a random witness to confirm he got on, keep everyone else on the bus forever silent, and tamper with evidence to do this.  Why was that necessary?  The only explanation that I've ever seen is that they wanted to connect the shirt to the fibers on the rifle.  But hold on Batman.  As CTers endlessly point out, the FBI never said the shirt fibers came from the shirt.  They merely said they were consistent with those fibers.  Why engage in this risky exercise for that limited purpose?  If they were controlling and manipulating the evidence, why not just say that any shirt that Oswald was wearing upon his arrest matched the fibers found on the rifle and any claims that he changed his shirt were just a fabrication of a guilty person?  No one would ever dispute that.  And who would care if they did.  Instead they engage in this elaborate fabrication drawing others into the plot.  That's laughable.

[Charles Collins]

Another snip from “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens, page 65, that indicates the Warren Commission was not rubber stamping the FBI’s reports but conducting its own investigation.

The initial press coverage of the commission was favorable. Although the commission had made no public statement regarding its initial decisions, one Washington Post reporter apparently had a very good source among the commission members. Early in January, he reported that the commission “is undertaking a far more wide-ranging and independent inquiry than most Washington observers expected.” He went on to report that the commission would not be accepting any set of premises, or formulating even tentative conclusions, until it made its own investigation. He said the commission would use “its own counsel and staff to interview sources already questioned by the FBI and the police,” conduct its own investigation, and take the testimony of witnesses in Washington.17

17. Roscoe Drummond, “The Warren Commission…. The Task is Broadened”, Washington Post, January 4, 1964.

[John Mytton]

We are supposed to believe that the fantasy conspirators didn't have enough on their plate assassinating the president in broad daylight, framing Oswald for the crime, covering up the involvement of anyone else including retrieving any such evidence from the authorities, but they also need to place Oswald on a bus that takes him absolutely nowhere and advances the plot not one iota?  To do this they have to find an old lady willing to lie about his presence of the bus.  How to make this convincing?  Ah yes, claim she recognized his shirt because it had a hole in it.  Quick like a bunny obtain the shirt and cut a hole in it.   No worries that he was arrested and filmed in that shirt before the world press.  That makes perfect sense.  So clever these conspirators.  Putting on that bus that gets stuck in traffic was a stroke of genius.  LOL.

The CT's just want to make out that almost every single fact in this case that contributes to Oswald's guilt, is a product of lies. But what would the WC have to do just in this one instance to manufacture a fake Bus journey to nowhere?

1) Locate the lady who rented out a room in early October to Oswald.
2) Or just make it all up with some generic Old Lady who somehow accounts for a week of Oswald's life and hope that the true whereabouts of Oswald in that week isn't exposed.
3) Have the Dallas Police and/or the FBI collaborate with this old lady, so her Oswald on the Bus story in her second day affidavit is convincing.
4) Have Fritz in on the deal as he tells lies about Oswald saying he was on the Bus.
5) Have Bookout in on the deal as he tells lies about Oswald saying he was on the Bus.
6) Having Hosty in on the deal as he tells lies about Oswald saying he was on the Bus.
7) Find a bus that was in traffic at the same time and have the Bus Driver part of the plan.
8] Get the bus driver to lie about giving out a Bus Transfer to a man who only travelled a few blocks.
9) Get the old lady to say that the man only travelled a few blocks.
10) Have the old lady and the bus driver collaborate on some minor details, like the guy coming to the bus door and saying the President has been shot and the lady carrying her luggage going to to the railway station and who received a Bus Transfer and got off at the same time as Oswald, so as to make the bus journey convincing.
11) Have the bus Driver get a bus transfer and punch it with the appropriate time.
12) Have the Police plant the bus transfer on Oswald
12) Or have another Police officer lie about searching Oswald and recovering the bus transfer.
13) Have the bus driver attend a Line-up and tell him not to identify Oswald, because, well, why not?
14) Take out a shirt to the old lady and convince her to say Oswald was wearing that shirt.
15) Cut out a hole in Oswald's shirt sleave because we need some distinctive feature.
16) Have the FBI agents who took the shirt write in their report that the old lady initially didn't think that the shirt was the same shirt but she eventually came around.
17) Accidentally have the old lady recall this incident in her testimony and then forget to erase this uncomfortable fact from the record.
 
Wow eh? For this one inconsequential bus ride we need to go to a lot of trouble and involve an excessive cast of liars.
Now to be an effective liar you need to be convincing and have a good memory so as to make the entire story plausible, and this story needs to be collaborated consistently across an entire group of vastly different individuals, and let's not forget this single story is just one tiny aspect of many of the witnesses testimony!

The CT's rarely think through their allegations and how their accusations would actually play out in the Real World! It's easy to say that this or that is faked but to actually make a believable narrative, as seen above, requires a massive amount of co-ordination.

JohnM

[Michael Capasse]

Another snip from “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens, page 65, that indicates the Warren Commission was not rubber stamping the FBI’s reports but conducting its own investigation.

The initial press coverage of the commission was favorable. Although the commission had made no public statement regarding its initial decisions, one Washington Post reporter apparently had a very good source among the commission members. Early in January, he reported that the commission “is undertaking a far more wide-ranging and independent inquiry than most Washington observers expected.” He went on to report that the commission would not be accepting any set of premises, or formulating even tentative conclusions, until it made its own investigation. He said the commission would use “its own counsel and staff to interview sources already questioned by the FBI and the police,” conduct its own investigation, and take the testimony of witnesses in Washington.17

17. Roscoe Drummond, “The Warren Commission…. The Task is Broadened”, Washington Post, January 4, 1964.

"..already questioned by the FBI..."

[Martin Weidmann]

So this entire complex fantasy is about trying to put a shirt on Oswald while he was on the bus?  They stage Oswald's presence on a bus, somehow convince a random witness to confirm he got on, keep everyone else on the bus forever silent, and tamper with evidence to do this.  Why was that necessary?  The only explanation that I've ever seen is that they wanted to connect the shirt to the fibers on the rifle.  But hold on Batman.  As CTers endlessly point out, the FBI never said the shirt fibers came from the shirt.  They merely said they were consistent with those fibers.  Why engage in this risky exercise for that limited purpose?  If they were controlling and manipulating the evidence, why not just say that any shirt that Oswald was wearing upon his arrest matched the fibers found on the rifle and any claims that he changed his shirt were just a fabrication of a guilty person?  No one would ever dispute that.  And who would care if they did.  Instead they engage in this elaborate fabrication drawing others into the plot.  That's laughable.

Once again you are creating your own strawman argument. Seems common for you.

Who said that they staged Oswald's presence on a bus?

As per usual you've got in backwards. Bledsoe signed an affidavit on 11/23/63 in which she states that she saw Oswald on the bus. A pretty harmless matter by itself.

The only explanation that I've ever seen is that they wanted to connect the shirt to the fibers on the rifle.

You're slow, but you are starting to understand.

As CTers endlessly point out, the FBI never said the shirt fibers came from the shirt.  They merely said they were consistent with those fibers.

Which is absolutely true. And it shows just how weak the case against Oswald really is.

They found a rifle at the TSBD which, at best, they can only tentatively link to Oswald by a questionable opinion of an FBI handwriting expert and a photo copy of an internal Klein's document with a handwritten serial number on it.
What they don't have is a witness who saw Oswald wear the shirt he was arrested in at the TSBD. That means those fibers, which, at best, have limited evidentiary value by themselves and no value whatsoever if they can not link it to a source.

And then they have this old, very confused, lady named Blesloe.....  Can you figure out what the next step could be to try to connect the fibres to the rifle and the arrest shirt? 

If they were controlling and manipulating the evidence, why not just say that any shirt that Oswald was wearing upon his arrest matched the fibers found on the rifle and any claims that he changed his shirt were just a fabrication of a guilty person?

Easy to answer, but it will probably go way over your head anyway! The best lie is the one that stays as close to the truth as possible. Why make up a bogus story and risk that at some point in the future the truth is actually discovered?

[Michael Capasse]

The CT's just want to make out that almost every single fact in this case that contributes to Oswald's guilt, is a product of lies. But what would the WC have to do just in this one instance to manufacture a fake Bus journey to nowhere?

1) Locate the lady who rented out a room in early October to Oswald.
2) Or just make it all up with some generic Old Lady who somehow accounts for a week of Oswald's life and hope that the true whereabouts of Oswald in that week isn't exposed.
3) Have the Dallas Police and/or the FBI collaborate with this old lady, so her Oswald on the Bus story in her second day affidavit is convincing.
4) Have Fritz in on the deal as he tells lies about Oswald saying he was on the Bus.
5) Have Bookout in on the deal as he tells lies about Oswald saying he was on the Bus.
6) Having Hosty in on the deal as he tells lies about Oswald saying he was on the Bus.
7) Find a bus that was in traffic at the same time and have the Bus Driver part of the plan.
8] Get the bus driver to lie about giving out a Bus Transfer to a man who only travelled a few blocks.
9) Get the old lady to say that the man only travelled a few blocks.
10) Have the old lady and the bus driver collaborate on some minor details, like the guy coming to the bus door and saying the President has been shot and the lady carrying her luggage going to to the railway station and who received a Bus Transfer and got off at the same time as Oswald, so as to make the bus journey convincing.
11) Have the bus Driver get a bus transfer and punch it with the appropriate time.
12) Have the Police plant the bus transfer on Oswald
12) Or have another Police officer lie about searching Oswald and recovering the bus transfer.
13) Have the bus driver attend a Line-up and tell him not to identify Oswald, because, well, why not?
14) Take out a shirt to the old lady and convince her to say Oswald was wearing that shirt.
15) Cut out a hole in Oswald's shirt sleave because we need some distinctive feature.
16) Have the FBI agents who took the shirt write in their report that the old lady initially didn't think that the shirt was the same shirt but she eventually came around.
17) Accidentally have the old lady recall this incident in her testimony and then forget to erase this uncomfortable fact from the record.
 
Wow eh? For this one inconsequential bus ride we need to go to a lot of trouble and involve an excessive cast of liars.
Now to be an effective liar you need to be convincing and have a good memory so as to make the entire story plausible, and this story needs to be collaborated consistently across an entire group of vastly different individuals, and let's not forget this single story is just one tiny aspect of many of the witnesses testimony!

The CT's rarely think through their allegations and how their accusations would actually play out in the Real World! It's easy to say that this or that is faked but to actually make a believable narrative, as seen above, requires a massive amount of co-ordination.

JohnM

This is why no one can take you seriously.

[Richard Smith]

The CT's just want to make out that almost every single fact in this case that contributes to Oswald's guilt, is a product of lies. But what would the WC have to do just in this one instance to manufacture a fake Bus journey to nowhere?

1) Locate the lady who rented out a room in early October to Oswald.
2) Or just make it all up with some generic Old Lady who somehow accounts for a week of Oswald's life and hope that the true whereabouts of Oswald in that week isn't exposed.
3) Have the Dallas Police and/or the FBI collaborate with this old lady, so her Oswald on the Bus story in her second day affidavit is convincing.
4) Have Fritz in on the deal as he tells lies about Oswald saying he was on the Bus.
5) Have Bookout in on the deal as he tells lies about Oswald saying he was on the Bus.
6) Having Hosty in on the deal as he tells lies about Oswald saying he was on the Bus.
7) Find a bus that was in traffic at the same time and have the Bus Driver part of the plan.
8] Get the bus driver to lie about giving out a Bus Transfer to a man who only travelled a few blocks.
9) Get the old lady to say that the man only travelled a few blocks.
10) Have the old lady and the bus driver collaborate on some minor details, like the guy coming to the bus door and saying the President has been shot and the lady carrying her luggage going to to the railway station and who received a Bus Transfer and got off at the same time as Oswald, so as to make the bus journey convincing.
11) Have the bus Driver get a bus transfer and punch it with the appropriate time.
12) Have the Police plant the bus transfer on Oswald
12) Or have another Police officer lie about searching Oswald and recovering the bus transfer.
13) Have the bus driver attend a Line-up and tell him not to identify Oswald, because, well, why not?
14) Take out a shirt to the old lady and convince her to say Oswald was wearing that shirt.
15) Cut out a hole in Oswald's shirt sleave because we need some distinctive feature.
16) Have the FBI agents who took the shirt write in their report that the old lady initially didn't think that the shirt was the same shirt but she eventually came around.
17) Accidentally have the old lady recall this incident in her testimony and then forget to erase this uncomfortable fact from the record.
 
Wow eh? For this one inconsequential bus ride we need to go to a lot of trouble and involve an excessive cast of liars.
Now to be an effective liar you need to be convincing and have a good memory so as to make the entire story plausible, and this story needs to be collaborated consistently across an entire group of vastly different individuals, and let's not forget this single story is just one tiny aspect of many of the witnesses testimony!

The CT's rarely think through their allegations and how their accusations would actually play out in the Real World! It's easy to say that this or that is faked but to actually make a believable narrative, as seen above, requires a massive amount of co-ordination.

JohnM

I always love a list that goes to 17.  It's laughable that CTers believe all this was faked for such a limited purpose.  It's even internally inconsistent if the CTers believe the conspirators had the willingness and ability to manipulate the evidence to their desired purpose.  But logic is wasted on the contrarian/CTer "mind."  They would not be CTers to begin with if they understood and could apply logic to this case.