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Author Topic: A hole in Bledsoe's story?  (Read 6488 times)

Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #176 on: March 22, 2025, 11:17:40 AM »
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A snip from “Witness to History” by Hugh Aynesworth, page 107-109:

“I guess you know my son was an agent for the federal government, she said, “and they just threw him away. I can prove that.” That’s where I stopped Marguerite and said I’d like to come over and see her proof. During this period, there were rumors everywhere that Oswald once worked for the FBI or the CIA as a paid informant. I was skeptical but willing to be convinced.

One reporter who felt certain Oswald had worked for the government was Alonzo “Lonnie” Hudkins of the Houston Post. Lonnie called me constantly, hoping I’d uncovered something to move the story along. In time I grew tired of Lonnie’s queries, especially since I doubted his sources were that good. One day as I was busily juggling deadline stories for Newsweek, where I was then a stringer,  and the Times of London as well as a weekend piece for the News, Lonnie called once more and asked me, “You hear anything about this FBI link with Oswald? Tired of him begging me, I said to him, “You got his payroll number don’t you?”

Yeah, yeah Lonnie said.

I reached over on my desk for a telegram and read part of a Telex number to him.

“Yeah, yeah,” he said, “that’s it. That’s the same one I’ve got.”

I knew that if Lonnie accepted the number as legitimate, he had nothing. He said he’d check his sources and get back to me.

Weeks passed, and I forgot about the call until January 1, 1964, when Hudkins published a front page article in the Post, alleging that Oswald may have been a federal operative. Naturally the story caused quite a stir. Members of the newly created Warren Commission summoned several top Texas law enforcement officials and advisers to Washington to discuss the development, including Waggoner Car, the state Attorney General, Dallas DA Henry Wade, and his assistant Bill Alexander; J. Edgar Hoover of course told the commission that the story was not true. The Texas folks denied any knowledge of where Hudkins got his story, and the story pretty much died — for a while.

Lonnie never disclosed his sources and for the bogus number, and I didn’t admit to it for at least several years.

FBI Agent Joe Hosty was among those upset over the Hudkins story. In Assignment Oswald, he castigated me not only for the Jack Revill story that Jim Ewell and I published but also for being, along with Bill Alexander, the supposed source of Hudkins’ fantasy.

When Hosty later called me, it was in part to apologize for that mistake. “Just want you to know that I visited with Hudkins later,” he said, “and understand that it was his contention, not yours and Alexander’s, about the alleged financial connection between the bureau and Oswald. I always admit my errors.”

Not the source Hudgens gave. He said it was a reliable individual in Dallas.
Aynesworth was on the FBI side of this story

How is Rankin referring to any of this in his comment on the 1/22?
How could the WC do this investigation independently without FBI direction?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 11:25:59 AM by Michael Capasse »

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #176 on: March 22, 2025, 11:17:40 AM »


Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #177 on: March 22, 2025, 11:24:28 AM »
Bugliosi is looking at the exact same event as you and you think your words 60+ years later mean so much more? Really?

The first time I read the line that you have quoted a bazillion times, within context seemed to me to be sarcastic, because they didn't just go home but spent months and months doing their own investigation and less than a week later they held another meeting and specifically said that they "had to go beyond" what the FBI provided!

There is no way Oswald was an FBI informant being paid $200 dollars a month because Oswald never had an extra penny beyond what he earned, he even applied for unemployment benefits, some secret agent! 
And you somehow seem to think that Hoover was complicit in his "rush to judgement" but as already explained to you, the first day evidence was that Oswald killed the President with a $13 dollar rifle and had no confederates to help him escape therefore was provably a Lone Nut. And what do you know, more than half a Century later after arguably the most investigated Murder ever, and don't forget that the CT's did the majority of that further investigation, there is still no Smoking Gun and not a shred of evidence that Oswald was a paid informant or that anyone else was involved. And that's a fact Jack!

Oswald a political nut who at the height of the Cold War defected to the enemy, tried to kill General Walker, was handing out Hands of Cuba pamphlets in New Orleans, went to Mexico city in an attempt to defect again, had a stack of pro Castro literature and finally took his rifle to work and assassinated the President, and that's all she wrote.

Besides the FBI, the WC went beyond the FBI and used many different sources and even visited the Texas School Book Depository!
From the first, the Commission considered its mandate to conduct a thorough and independent investigation. The Commission reviewed reports by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Secret Service, Department of State, and the Attorney General of Texas, and then requested additional information from federal agencies, Congressional committees, and state and local experts. The Commission held hearings and took the testimony of 552 witnesses. On several occasions, the Commission went to Dallas to visit the scene of the assassination and other places.

JohnM

It doesn't matter what Mr. Bogus-liosi said 30 years later. I'm well aware of it.
You said Rankin is referring to conspiracy in his comment? - what does that mean? sarcasm? how so?
How exactly does all THIS relate to Rankins comment?

« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 11:34:05 AM by Michael Capasse »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #178 on: March 22, 2025, 01:07:34 PM »
Another snip from “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens, page 76:


Hoover subsequently sent several letters to Rankin in early February that summarized interviews with people alleged to have information supporting the allegation that Oswald was an FBI informant and provided affidavits in support of the bureau’s denial of the allegation. He advised Rankin that Wade stated that he had no information to support this allegation and that Hudkins had refused to supply the name of a Dallas law enforcement official who had made the allegation to him. Hoover also provided his own affidavit, the affidavit of the agent who participated in two of the interviews of Oswald, and nine additional affidavits of bureau personnel “who, because of their assignments, would have been responsible for or cognizant of any attempt to develop Lee Harvey Oswald as an informant of the FBI.” All of them denied the allegation.34


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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #178 on: March 22, 2025, 01:07:34 PM »


Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #179 on: March 22, 2025, 01:23:58 PM »
Another snip from “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens, page 76:


Hudkins had refused to supply the name of a Dallas law enforcement official who had made the allegation to him.

Thumb1: That's right. He called it a reliable source he wouldn't want to lose.
And now, Hoover is involved overseeing this investigation for the protection of his FBI - who did they call?
He would never tell if it was true anyway.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 01:25:52 PM by Michael Capasse »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #180 on: March 22, 2025, 01:27:23 PM »
Another snip from “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens, page 76:

  The Commission’s Decides to Do Its Own Investigating

 Our discovery that the FBI was hiding information, apparently for self-serving reasons, required a decision about the continued use of FBI agents in our investigation. Could the commission work with an agency that proved willing to withhold information from us? I thought we could handle this problem and, in fact, had no alternative. We had very competent lawyers who would be hard to fool as they became more knowledgeable about the facts. I had seen instances at the Justice Department where department lawyers had some reservations about Hoover’s direction of the FBI, but found ways to work around the problem. They used other investigative agencies to cross-check what the FBI told them; they developed their own sources; and they always were aware of the possibility that the FBI was gaming them in some respect. FBI agents out in the field tended to act with fewer “political” motives than their Washington superiors, especially while working closely with department lawyers to prosecute a case successfully. But we all feared that this instance of deliberately withheld information was not likely to be an isolated event. Our continued use of the FBI did give rise to criticism over the years that we failed to use “independent” investigators not employed by the federal government. Some critics believed that the commission’s investigation was already fatally tainted because of its initial reliance on the FBI and other federal agencies. In their view, federal agents could not be relied upon to investigate allegations that their own agencies failed in their responsibilities. In addition, critics claimed that federal agents (and their superiors) would be more susceptible to political pressures within the federal government to ensure that the investigation came to a predetermined conclusion. I understood these concerns, but saw no problem in using federal agencies so long as the commission’s ultimate decisions were based on its own extensive record of sworn testimony. By late January, commission lawyers had identified hundreds of details that had to be checked out, stories that had to be confirmed or rejected, and additional physical evidence that had to be recovered. Only the FBI could muster the resources and manpower to do this work within an acceptable time frame. We had no other comparable pool of trained and experienced investigators in the United States. If the FBI and other federal agencies were barred from assisting the commission, candidates would have to come primarily from state and local police departments, with no assurance of their quality or independence. Many of these law enforcement officials had been employed or trained by the FBI, so they might not be considered “independent” investigators. Even if such candidates were found in suitable numbers, the required security clearances (typically done by the FBI) would have delayed any significant investigation by the commission for several months. I simply didn’t see any practical or politically acceptable alternative to using investigators from the FBI, the CIA, and the Secret Service. The commission members, all of whom had extensive Washington experience, came to the same conclusion, despite reservations about Hoover’s trustworthiness. Former commission members Ford and McCloy later emphasized the ability of the commission’s staff and its supervision of the federal agencies. Ford noted, Although the staff and the Commission utilized the investigative personnel and capabilities of organizations within the Federal establishment, we as a Commission and the staff were never satisfied with what information we got from these Federal organizations. What we did was to use them as a base, and then the staff and the Commission took off from there and handled individually the inquiries, the questions, and any leads that came to the Commission or to the staff.36 McCloy supported Ford’s position and stated: “It is not true, as has been alleged, that we relied entirely on the agencies of the Government.”37 Rankin explained later that he had examined the possibilities of using an independent investigative staff. He concluded and reported to the commission “that it would be a long time before we got any such staff put together that could handle all the problems that were involved with the size of the investigation” that we were conducting. Because President Johnson had instructed all government agencies to cooperate fully with the commission, Rankin decided “that it seemed prudent to try to use the intelligence facilities that the Government had at hand.”38 Redlich and I shared the view that our reliance on an FBI we didn’t fully trust meant we would have to work harder and longer to be sure we checked out every fact. We felt the weight of the staff lawyers’ distrust of the FBI as they accelerated the pace of investigative requests to check and double-check facts. Rankin had instructed that all such investigative requests should go to me before they went to him for approval. Rankin also felt the burden as he approved the taking of sworn testimony from an ever-growing list of individuals with potentially relevant information. This process ultimately produced testimony from 552 people: 94 witnesses who appeared before the commission, 395 witnesses deposed by commission lawyers, 61 witnesses who provided sworn affidavits, and 2 who provided statements. In assessing this entire record of testimony, and more than three thousand exhibits, the commission had the responsibility to do what federal investigative agencies do not customarily do—evaluate all the available evidence and make reasoned judgments of the conclusions that are supported by that evidence. This process is one that lawyers routinely are called upon by their clients—whether public or private—to undertake, and the commission members and lawyers had a wealth of experience in doing exactly that.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 01:32:18 PM by Charles Collins »

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #180 on: March 22, 2025, 01:27:23 PM »


Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #181 on: March 22, 2025, 01:32:49 PM »
Another snip from “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens, page 76:

  The Commission’s Decides to Do Its Own Investigating Our discovery that the FBI was hiding information, apparently for self-serving reasons, required a decision about the continued use of FBI agents in our investigation. Could the commission work with an agency that proved willing to withhold information from us? I thought we could handle this problem and, in fact, had no alternative. We had very competent lawyers who would be hard to fool as they became more knowledgeable about the facts. I had seen instances at the Justice Department where department lawyers had some reservations about Hoover’s direction of the FBI, but found ways to work around the problem. They used other investigative agencies to cross-check what the FBI told them; they developed their own sources; and they always were aware of the possibility that the FBI was gaming them in some respect. FBI agents out in the field tended to act with fewer “political” motives than their Washington superiors, especially while working closely with department lawyers to prosecute a case successfully. But we all feared that this instance of deliberately withheld information was not likely to be an isolated event. Our continued use of the FBI did give rise to criticism over the years that we failed to use “independent” investigators not employed by the federal government. Some critics believed that the commission’s investigation was already fatally tainted because of its initial reliance on the FBI and other federal agencies. In their view, federal agents could not be relied upon to investigate allegations that their own agencies failed in their responsibilities. In addition, critics claimed that federal agents (and their superiors) would be more susceptible to political pressures within the federal government to ensure that the investigation came to a predetermined conclusion. I understood these concerns, but saw no problem in using federal agencies so long as the commission’s ultimate decisions were based on its own extensive record of sworn testimony. By late January, commission lawyers had identified hundreds of details that had to be checked out, stories that had to be confirmed or rejected, and additional physical evidence that had to be recovered. Only the FBI could muster the resources and manpower to do this work within an acceptable time frame. We had no other comparable pool of trained and experienced investigators in the United States. If the FBI and other federal agencies were barred from assisting the commission, candidates would have to come primarily from state and local police departments, with no assurance of their quality or independence. Many of these law enforcement officials had been employed or trained by the FBI, so they might not be considered “independent” investigators. Even if such candidates were found in suitable numbers, the required security clearances (typically done by the FBI) would have delayed any significant investigation by the commission for several months. I simply didn’t see any practical or politically acceptable alternative to using investigators from the FBI, the CIA, and the Secret Service. The commission members, all of whom had extensive Washington experience, came to the same conclusion, despite reservations about Hoover’s trustworthiness. Former commission members Ford and McCloy later emphasized the ability of the commission’s staff and its supervision of the federal agencies. Ford noted, Although the staff and the Commission utilized the investigative personnel and capabilities of organizations within the Federal establishment, we as a Commission and the staff were never satisfied with what information we got from these Federal organizations. What we did was to use them as a base, and then the staff and the Commission took off from there and handled individually the inquiries, the questions, and any leads that came to the Commission or to the staff.36 McCloy supported Ford’s position and stated: “It is not true, as has been alleged, that we relied entirely on the agencies of the Government.”37 Rankin explained later that he had examined the possibilities of using an independent investigative staff. He concluded and reported to the commission “that it would be a long time before we got any such staff put together that could handle all the problems that were involved with the size of the investigation” that we were conducting. Because President Johnson had instructed all government agencies to cooperate fully with the commission, Rankin decided “that it seemed prudent to try to use the intelligence facilities that the Government had at hand.”38 Redlich and I shared the view that our reliance on an FBI we didn’t fully trust meant we would have to work harder and longer to be sure we checked out every fact. We felt the weight of the staff lawyers’ distrust of the FBI as they accelerated the pace of investigative requests to check and double-check facts. Rankin had instructed that all such investigative requests should go to me before they went to him for approval. Rankin also felt the burden as he approved the taking of sworn testimony from an ever-growing list of individuals with potentially relevant information. This process ultimately produced testimony from 552 people: 94 witnesses who appeared before the commission, 395 witnesses deposed by commission lawyers, 61 witnesses who provided sworn affidavits, and 2 who provided statements. In assessing this entire record of testimony, and more than three thousand exhibits, the commission had the responsibility to do what federal investigative agencies do not customarily do—evaluate all the available evidence and make reasoned judgments of the conclusions that are supported by that evidence. This process is one that lawyers routinely are called upon by their clients—whether public or private—to undertake, and the commission members and lawyers had a wealth of experience in doing exactly that.

Do you read what you post?

Only the FBI could muster the resources and manpower to do this work within an acceptable time frame. We had no other comparable pool of trained and experienced investigators in the United States. If the FBI and other federal agencies were barred from assisting the commission, candidates would have to come primarily from state and local police departments, with no assurance of their quality or independence.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 01:33:16 PM by Michael Capasse »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #182 on: March 22, 2025, 01:47:05 PM »
And yet another snip from “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens, page 80:

By the end of January, we had begun to move along an independent path. The FBI had essentially concluded its investigation and had no intention of initiating further work to supplement or amend its summary reports on Oswald and Ruby. During the commission meeting of January 27, Rankin advised the commission that the FBI’s January report on Oswald “filled in some of the holes” in its first report, but left more than half of the commission’s questions unanswered.40 The hundreds of investigative requests and the tenacity of the staff in the following months uncovered important new information, developed new ways of interpreting the scientific and physical evidence, and brought us much clearer insights into how Oswald and Ruby could succeed in doing what they did. Looking forward to February, the commission was going to hear its first witness, Marina Oswald, early in the month, with more witnesses to follow. The pending issues with the FBI had to be addressed to the extent possible, but more conflict was virtually certain. We were now ready to start dealing with the Treasury Department about presidential protection and with the CIA and the State Department about Oswald’s foreign activities. As soon as Ruby’s trial for the murder of Oswald, scheduled to begin in February, was concluded in Texas, our lawyers would be headed for Dallas to initiate the commission’s program of taking testimony under oath from witnesses who had knowledge of the facts we needed to determine and evaluate.

Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #183 on: March 22, 2025, 01:51:30 PM »
And yet another snip from “History Will Prove Us Right” by Howard Willens, page 80:

By the end of January, we had begun to move along an independent path. The FBI had essentially concluded its investigation and had no intention of initiating further work to supplement or amend its summary reports on Oswald and Ruby. During the commission meeting of January 27, Rankin advised the commission that the FBI’s January report on Oswald “filled in some of the holes” in its first report, but left more than half of the commission’s questions unanswered.

The FBI certainly was not finished with guiding the investigation. It handled all requests the Commission had for evidence.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 01:55:15 PM by Michael Capasse »

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Re: A hole in Bledsoe's story?
« Reply #183 on: March 22, 2025, 01:51:30 PM »