A hole in Bledsoe's story?

[Martin Weidmann]

Maybe they just wanted to know whether or not Bledsoe would recognize the shirt. I have already said this. The point is that none of this is weird or stands out for any reason whatsoever.

Maybe, perhaps, could have..... words LNs frequently use when they can't answer the question.

Well, rather than guessing, let me provide you with an actual fact;

The FD 302 dated December 4, 1963 about the visit at Bledsoe's home, written by Agents Brown and Butler, states; "When the shirt was removed from an envelope in which it was contained, Mrs. Bledsoe at first said "No no. That's not the shirt".

and "Upon further examination of the shirt, she observed a hole in the right elbow of the shirt at which time she quickly stated, "Yes, yes. This is the shirt".....

Four months later, during her WC testimony she said;

Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - This is a shirt.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Because they brought it out to the house and showed it.
<>

Mr. BALL - Had you ever seen the shirt before that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well---
Mr. BALL - Have you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; he had it on, though.
Mr. BALL - Who had it on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oswald.
Mr. BALL - Oswald had it on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oswald had it on.
Mr. BALL - Now, what is there about the shirt that makes you believe that this is the shirt that Oswald had on when he was on the bus? What is there about it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, let's see the front of it. Yes See all this [indicating]? I remember that.
Mr. BALL - Tell me what you see there?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I saw the---no; not so much that. It was done after---that is part I recognize more than anything.
Mr. BALL - You are pointing to a hole in the right elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

So, first she told the FBI agents that it wasn't the shirt, only to then suddenly changing her mind when she sees a hole in the right sleeve. And then, four months later she identifies the shirt as the one shown to her by the FBI agents. But when asked if she had ever seen the shirt "before that" (meaning the FBI visit) she says "No" only to instantly follow it up by saying that "Oswald had it on". And then, when asked how she knows this is the shirt was wearing on the bus she again goes back to the hole in the right sleeve she had observed during the FBI visit.

Could it be, that maybe, perhaps, the FBI took the shirt to Bledsoe to ensure that she had seen it before giving testimony and she screwed it up nevertheless?

[Charles Collins]

Maybe, perhaps, could have..... words LNs frequently use when they can't answer the question.

Well, rather than guessing, let me provide you with an actual fact;

The FD 302 dated December 4, 1963 about the visit at Bledsoe's home, written by Agents Brown and Butler, it states; "When the short was removed from an envelope in which it was contained, Mrs. Bledsoe at first said "No no. That's not the shirt".

and "Upon further examination of the shirt, she observed a hole in the right elbow of the shirt at which time she quickly stated, "Yes, yes. This is the shirt".....

Four months later, during her WC testimony she said;

Mr. BALL - Commission Exhibit 150.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - This is a shirt.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is it.
Mr. BALL - What do you mean by "that is it?"
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Because they brought it out to the house and showed it.
<>

Mr. BALL - Had you ever seen the shirt before that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well---
Mr. BALL - Have you?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; he had it on, though.
Mr. BALL - Who had it on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oswald.
Mr. BALL - Oswald had it on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oswald had it on.
Mr. BALL - Now, what is there about the shirt that makes you believe that this is the shirt that Oswald had on when he was on the bus? What is there about it?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, let's see the front of it. Yes See all this [indicating]? I remember that.
Mr. BALL - Tell me what you see there?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I saw the---no; not so much that. It was done after---that is part I recognize more than anything.
Mr. BALL - You are pointing to a hole in the right elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

So, first she told the FBI agents that it wasn't the shirt, only to then suddenly changing her mind when she sees a hole in the right sleeve. And then, four months later she identifies the shirt as the one shown to her by the FBI agents. But when asked if she had ever seen the shirt "before that" (meaning the FBI visit) she says "No" only to instantly follow it up by saying that "Oswald had it on". And then, when asked how she knows this is the shirt was wearing on the bus she again goes back to the hole in the right sleeve she had observed during the FBI visit.

Could it be, that maybe, perhaps, the FBI took the shirt to Bledsoe to ensure that she had seen it before giving testimony and she screwed it up nevertheless?

Could it be, that maybe, perhaps, the FBI took the shirt to Bledsoe to ensure that she had seen it before giving testimony and she screwed it up nevertheless?

As I said before, the FBI (on 12/4/63) had no way of knowing how the Warren Commission was going to proceed. According to Howard Willens (History Will Prove Us Right, page 35):

Hoover staked out a clear position from the outset: if the president had to have this commission, its function should be to receive the FBI’s report, review it, ask questions aimed at clarifying its findings, then endorse the report and disband.

That was apparently the mindset of the FBI at that point in time. The FBI had not yet even submitted its report to JFK. Yet, your fantasy has them plotting to establish something so that Bledsoe would testify a certain way?  It is astonishing that anyone could actually believe such a scenario as you described it.

[John Mytton]

Maybe they just wanted to know whether or not Bledsoe would recognize the shirt. I have already said this. The point is that none of this is weird or stands out for any reason whatsoever.

This entire thread is an embarrassment, from the abortion induced OP through to the pointless accusations being thrown around with gay abandon.

1) The FBI showing the shirt to Bledsoe was no secret, they gave a truthful summary which included Bledsoe's initial apprehension and even wrote a report which is accessible.
2) The WC/FBI which has had many accusations of altering testimony didn't in this case
3) The author of the OP alludes to some great mystery regarding the significance of Oswald wearing "that" shirt on the bus, but when confronted resorts to ad hominems, the weakest most pathetic form of rebuttal.
4) For reason I outlined in my previous posts, Oswald in his flight from the scene of the crime was on that bus, he even admitted to various Law Enforcement agents, he was on that bus.
5) Oswald was wearing that shirt later that same day, in fact he was arrested wearing it and now it is within the archives and part of history.
6) Stomberg testified that the three distinctly unique threads found on that rifle had a strong probability of coming from Oswald's shirt but he could not say when they were transferred.

This thread has degenerated into yet another feeble attempt to imply that this singular insignificant event somehow is reason to create doubt, but it is nothing of the kind because all of this evidence hasn't been deliberately hidden but was actually published as part of the record.

JohnM

[Dan O'meara]

Could it be, that maybe, perhaps, the FBI took the shirt to Bledsoe to ensure that she had seen it before giving testimony and she screwed it up nevertheless?

As I said before, the FBI (on 12/4/63) had no way of knowing how the Warren Commission was going to proceed. According to Howard Willens (History Will Prove Us Right, page 35):

Hoover staked out a clear position from the outset: if the president had to have this commission, its function should be to receive the FBI’s report, review it, ask questions aimed at clarifying its findings, then endorse the report and disband.

That was apparently the mindset of the FBI at that point in time. The FBI had not yet even submitted its report to JFK. Yet, your fantasy has them plotting to establish something so that Bledsoe would testify a certain way?  It is astonishing that anyone could actually believe such a scenario as you described it.

It's important to remember that less than 48 hours after the assassination Hoover had determined the outcome of the investigation.
The FBI were to find that Oswald was the sole assassin. No confederates. No accomplice.

"If the president had to have this commission, its function should be to receive the FBI’s report, review it, ask questions aimed at clarifying its findings, then endorse the report and disband."

Less than 48 hours after the assassination Hoover had determined the outcome of the FBI's report, that Oswald was the lone assassin. The Warren Commission was to view this report, ask questions to clarify it's findings, then endorse the report.
That is exactly what the Warren Commission did.
The result of the Commission had been determined before the Commission had even come into being.
And it is in this light that any FBI involvement in the investigation of JFK's assassination must be viewed.

This includes something as seemingly pointless as Bledsoe and the shirt.
Viewed through this lens it becomes obvious that the FBI visited Bledsoe to make sure she 'remembered' Oswald wearing the shirt that they already had fibre evidence for.
But it wasn't the shirt Oswald wore to work that day which demonstrates the FBI fibre evidence was as suspect as Bledsoe's memory and that it was all part of the charade to achieve the outcome of the investigation that Hoover had already determined.

This doesn't mean Oswald didn't do it.
It just means to take the FBI's report (and therefore the findings of the Warren Commission) with a pinch of salt.

[Martin Weidmann]

Could it be, that maybe, perhaps, the FBI took the shirt to Bledsoe to ensure that she had seen it before giving testimony and she screwed it up nevertheless?

As I said before, the FBI (on 12/4/63) had no way of knowing how the Warren Commission was going to proceed. According to Howard Willens (History Will Prove Us Right, page 35):

Hoover staked out a clear position from the outset: if the president had to have this commission, its function should be to receive the FBI’s report, review it, ask questions aimed at clarifying its findings, then endorse the report and disband.

That was apparently the mindset of the FBI at that point in time. The FBI had not yet even submitted its report to JFK. Yet, your fantasy has them plotting to establish something so that Bledsoe would testify a certain way?  It is astonishing that anyone could actually believe such a scenario as you described it.

As I said before, the FBI (on 12/4/63) had no way of knowing how the Warren Commission was going to proceed

So, they just investigated the case without knowing what the purpose of the investigation was? Really?

It wouldn't take a genius to work out what the WC investigation would be about.

That was apparently the mindset of the FBI at that point in time. The FBI had not yet even submitted its report to JFK.

First of all, you probably mean LBJ instead of JFK.

Secondly, how in the world is it apparent to you what the mindset of the FBI was at that point in time?

Hoover declared Oswald guilty on 11/24/63 in a memo he wrote to LBJ. Before the end of the following week, Hoover presented LBJ with a FBI report which basically said the same thing. He then made clear to LBJ that he was not in favor of any other investigation.

And you still assume that Hoover had no clue how an investigation, other than his own, would proceed? Really?

Yet, your fantasy has them plotting to establish something so that Bledsoe would testify a certain way?

Prove me wrong and give me another plausible reason for two FBI agents taking Oswald's shirt to Bledsoe's house?

It is astonishing that anyone could actually believe such a scenario as you described it.

No, what is astonishing is that you seem to believe that, after Hoover had already submitted the FBI report and a memo to LBJ, two FBI agents nevertheless took a piece of evidence to a witness' home for the purpose of an identification without actually having a sound reason to do so.

You previously said;

Maybe they just wanted to know whether or not Bledsoe would recognize the shirt.

Which begs the question, why would they want to know that? Was it just curiosity? And if not, what was the purpose for the visit?

[Charles Collins]

This entire thread is an embarrassment, from the abortion induced OP through to the pointless accusations being thrown around with gay abandon.

1) The FBI showing the shirt to Bledsoe was no secret, they gave a truthful summary which included Bledsoe's initial apprehension and even wrote a report which is accessible.
2) The WC/FBI which has had many accusations of altering testimony didn't in this case
3) The author of the OP alludes to some great mystery regarding the significance of Oswald wearing "that" shirt on the bus, but when confronted resorts to ad hominems, the weakest most pathetic form of rebuttal.
4) For reason I outlined in my previous posts, Oswald in his flight from the scene of the crime was on that bus, he even admitted to various Law Enforcement agents, he was on that bus.
5) Oswald was wearing that shirt later that same day, in fact he was arrested wearing it and now it is within the archives and part of history.
6) Stomberg testified that the three distinctly unique threads found on that rifle had a strong probability of coming from Oswald's shirt but he could not say when they were transferred.

This thread has degenerated into yet another feeble attempt to imply that this singular insignificant event somehow is reason to create doubt, but it is nothing of the kind because all of this evidence hasn't been deliberately hidden but was actually published as part of the record.

JohnM

I agree with you John. Sadly, the imaginations of the biased ones will run rampant regardless of their lack of evidence and logic.

[Martin Weidmann]

It's important to remember that less than 48 hours after the assassination Hoover had determined the outcome of the investigation.
The FBI were to find that Oswald was the sole assassin. No confederates. No accomplice.

"If the president had to have this commission, its function should be to receive the FBI’s report, review it, ask questions aimed at clarifying its findings, then endorse the report and disband."

Less than 48 hours after the assassination Hoover had determined the outcome of the FBI's report, that Oswald was the lone assassin. The Warren Commission was to view this report, ask questions to clarify it's findings, then endorse the report.
That is exactly what the Warren Commission did.
The result of the Commission had been determined before the Commission had even come into being.
And it is in this light that any FBI involvement in the investigation of JFK's assassination must be viewed.

This includes something as seemingly pointless as Bledsoe and the shirt.
Viewed through this lens it becomes obvious that the FBI visited Bledsoe to make sure she 'remembered' Oswald wearing the shirt that they already had fibre evidence for.
But it wasn't the shirt Oswald wore to work that day which demonstrates the FBI fibre evidence was as suspect as Bledsoe's memory and that it was all part of the charade to achieve the outcome of the investigation that Hoover had already determined.

This doesn't mean Oswald didn't do it.
It just means to take the FBI's report (and therefore the findings of the Warren Commission) with a pinch of salt.

Viewed through this lens it becomes obvious that the FBI visited Bledsoe to make sure she 'remembered' Oswald wearing the shirt that they already had fibre evidence for.

Exactly.

This doesn't mean Oswald didn't do it.
It just means to take the FBI's report (and therefore the findings of the Warren Commission) with a pinch of salt.

Bingo.

Oswald being on the bus or not wasn't the point. They needed a way to put Oswald on the bus wearing that particular shirt because they had nobody except Bledsoe to confirm it.

And Bledsoe has proven herself to be a highly unreliable witness, which is exactly why LNs like Mytton throw a tantrum.

It's just one more piece of evidence that's so flimsy that it can barely evidence at all.

The bottom line is this: Bledsoe did not mention the shirt and the hole in the right sleeve in her first affidavit on 11/23/64. She merely stated that she recognized Oswald because he had lived in her house. That's it!

In her testimony we find out that she only recognized Oswald because of the hole in the right sleeve of a shirt. And, of course, she spills the beans by saying that Agents had brought the shirt to her house before she testified.

It isn't hard to figure out what was going on.....

[Martin Weidmann]

I agree with you John. Sadly, the imaginations of the biased ones will run rampant regardless of their lack of evidence and logic.

When LNs start agreeing with eachother and complain about people they can not convince with their superficial BS as not being logical, you know that they have run out of arguments.

It's pathetic.