The Simplest Conspiracy Theory

[Allan Fritzke]

All LBJ has to do is get JFK to visit Dallas before the next election. As in 1960, the motorcade route will take JFK directly past the TSBD building. All that needs to happen is to have a man take a relatively easy shot from the building as JFK passes by.
It could not be simpler.
...
The first defense contract awarded during LBJ's presidency went to Byrd's company, LTV. Johnson also kept in place the oil depletion allowance.

These are about the best part of your simplest conspiracy theory.  The rest I don't believe add much.  However, I do agree there was LBJ and a group within the CIA organization which had much to gain and in common their fear of a loss of power.  I draw a parallel between JFK and Trump.  They both wanted to end "endless wars" and stop funding USAid organizations which are used to pay off patronage and allow the CIA to meddle in the affairs of other countries and create military industrial complex (MIC) situations which get funded by the taxpayer.   Some people are elected, others are not.  JFK and Trump are both nationalists - not globalists!  Very important when contrasting these 2 politicians with the likes of the Bush's, Clinton, Obama etc. who are looking for complete global integration and leadership.

After 2 attempts on Trump's life, it is clear that "nutcasing" is being encouraged - especially when you see how lax the secret service was and how all connections have been burned.  Leaving the obvious building open to a sniper is way too much coincidence.  Much like J6th, the documents involved in those allegations have for some mysterious reason disappeared and were shredded.    Unlike most, the CIA has most politician under control.  Trump is not in compliance - neither was JFK.  It appears that Epstein did not have any junk on Trump which could be used by the CIA to enforce capitulation and strangulation of Trump.  It is pretty obvious most politicians fear their handlers - Trump does not.  He also is very narcissist in simple terms and hard to trap.  They don't have him visiting Epstein Island and using the Lolita Express with implicating videos and photographs of him getting drunk and playing around with under-aged girls.  He doesn't even drink.   He is not under their control period!

Who was JFK and what was his huge downfall?  A number of reasons:
1) He fired Allen Dulles and wanted a different way forward.
2) He botched CIA plans for Cuba.  They wanted to take out Castro and were considering even using an errant Cuban missile or rocket to take out an American airplane with Americans on board.
3) JFK openly declared in his speech that the military industrial complex and CIA involvement in meddling with the affairs of other countries was on the chopping block! No longer the status quo!
4) JFK also wanted to prevent the Middle East from getting nuclear weaponry.  Much like inspectors in Iraq for WMD's, he wanted to send inspectors into Palestine to watchdog them.
5) He was governing for the people and wanted programs which would end nuclear arms races and have Americans live peaceably among the world. Nationalist vs Globalist agenda.
6) He was a Catholic and not part of Skull and Bones or any other Masonic organization, or Mormon organization. He openly called for the end of secret societies (look at his speech).

The point is, he was hated by all un-elected government organizations as is Trump.  There are groups in power like the CIA, FBI and CFR who influence much of the world's affairs.  Trump now is taking away their spending money and they do not like that at all.

Why LBJ was involved?
1)  He hated JFK with a passion as JFK belittled him and he was on his way out.  LBJ was very corrupt and this was the best way for him to take the office of POTUS.  He was greedy for power.
2) He also was very pro-Israel and appeared to be sleeping with Mathilda Krim.  She certainly didn't want weapons inspectors to see how Israel got the bomb via mafia and textile industry during that time frame.
3) LBJ found common ground with the CIA as they both wanted JFK out of the way.  Viet Nam was an ongoing war which was funding the MIC in a big way.  Everyone remains happy.  Even new weapon testing.
4) LBJ had no qualms in handing out military contracts to the likes of Raytheon (modern name) who could make new weaponry and sell and dispose of obsolete weaponry to proxy type wars.  Tax payers can pay for it.  All good. More jobs!
5) The people he appointed for the Warren Commission had deep ties via Secret Societies.   Even Zapruder was a 33rd degree and near top of his game.  Fired Allen Dulles was part of the WC.  Great way to achieve commonality by  employing them.
6) It was common knowledge that both the CIA, IDF and LBJ had common ties to the mafia.   One such figure used was Jack Ruby. 

Loose ends were all tied up nice and neat after it was all said and done!
 

[Lance Payette]

Loose ends were all tied up nice and neat after it was all said and done!

Oops, the ENTIRE PREMISE of Conspiracy World is that the loose ends were NOT tied up nice and neat. The entire premise of Conspiracy World is that the conspirators were evil geniuses half the time and bungling Keystone Cops the other half.

It must also be noted that when you hypothesize "a group within the CIA organization" you have exponentially expanded Dan's theory in terms of complexity and number of participants.

If I had the resources, I'd love to make a high-quality Netflix series with each of ten or so JFK conspiracy theories fleshed out in, say, three one-hour episodes (well, maybe five for Harvey & Lee). Let folks see what these would actually have looked like. It would have to be a comedy series of course, along the lines of "Monty Python's Life of Brian."

[Tom Graves]

LBJ
Byrd
Cason
Shelley
Mac Wallace (or Jack Dougherty) and Patsy Oswald

That is the sum total of the simplest conspiracy theory I can imagine.

You left out someone you mentioned in your post -- a probable (according to CIA Counterintelligence analyst Clare Edward Petty) long-term KGB "illegal" by the name of George DeMohrenschildt.

Regardless, I thought you said in another thread that there were only two conspirators?

[Lance Payette]

You left out someone you mentioned in your post -- a probable (according to CIA Counterintelligence analyst Clare Edward Petty) long-term KGB "illegal" by the name of George DeMohrenschildt.

Regardless, I thought you said in another thread that there were only two conspirators?

Ah, I see now that Dan has left open the possibility of tap-dancing to Dougherty when the Wallace thing starts to look silly, as it has. OK, Rankin was suspicious of Dougherty and asked for him to be investigated precisely because he seemed confused and inconsistent to the point of suspected mental retardation. Precisely what were his radical ideological views and gun skills that would have made him a likely gunman candidate, enquiring minds would like to know? What evidence is there that he benefitted in any way? I can find precisely nothing about him after the JFKA, not even an obituary. Did he die a Mysterious Death, one wonders?

But wait, he was the PERFECT candidate to say "Absolutely, I saw Lee carry a long package wrapped in brown paper into the building that morning. Maybe three feet long or so? Yeah, I wondered about that myself. Hell of a big sandwich, ha ha ha." But he DIDN'T. Quite the contrary. The GUNMAN helped provide an alibi for the PATSY? Ya think?

I trust the point you're making, Tom, is the same as the one I'm making: This all makes no sense. You're just more polite, right?

Ah, I also see that Dan adopted your De Mohrenschildt suggestion and incorporated him into his theory, albeit apparently without the KGB angle. He merely alerted Byrd that he had a perfect patsy working for him, or something like that.

Tap, tap tap. This really is kind of fun to watch.

[Dan O'meara]

Theories like Dan’s “simple” theory are – or should be – highly instructive for all CTers. The serve as a wonderful lesson in how difficult – impossible? – it is to construct a theory with any real-world plausibility.

This was the very point of my “If I had planned the conspiracy" thread. When you are challenged, or challenge yourself, to put meat on the bones of your conspiracy theory, it inevitably starts to look more like a Rube Goldberg contraption than a Presidential assassination.



Bill Shelley, CIA guy? In WW2, he was an ROTC cadet in high school. He began working for the predecessor of the TSBD in 1945, within a few months of high school graduation. He worked in the TSBD all his working life – 40+ years. He lived until 1996. He died in Irving in modest circumstances. There is zero evidence over the course of his life that he had any radical ideological views or received any material benefit from RISKING HIS LIFE as a principal in the ASSASSINATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. But in Conspiracy World – in Dan’s world – these are the sort of characters of which assassination conspirators are made.

But wait, Lance, surely you know Shelley admitted his connection to the CIA? Uh, well …

The source of this Conspiracy Factoid is, of course, the so-called Glaze letters – written by one Elzie Dean Glaze to the HSCA in 1977 and then part of a magazine article in 1989. Glaze claimed to have interviewed “Shelly” extensively in 1974, even being allowed to record those conversations; the notes and tapes, alas, mysteriously disappeared. The cooperative “Shelly” revealed such bombshells as that he “had been an intelligence officer during World War II [when he was a high school ROTC cadet] and thereafter joined the CIA [it wasn’t even formed until late 1948, at which time Shelley was working for the predecessor of the TSBD]." After the assassination, “the Dallas police placed Shelly under arrest and formally charged him with the murder of the President [ya think?]."

You can read the full saga here in the first post by William Weston: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/5769-glaze-letters/ The Ed Forum folks greeted it with hoots, and even Bart Kamp acknowledges it must be “taken with a large grain of salt.”

Except, of course, by those for whom it's Conspiracy Gospel. But I digress …

Who, in Dan’s theory, alerted Shelley, Cason or Byrd that they had a rifle-owning, Russian-defecting, Castro-sympathizing, ex-Marine-sharpshooter filling orders in the TSBD? Who alerted them that this perfect patsy had been handed to them on a platter? Does this not immediately take Dan's conspiracy far beyond his “simple” little absurdity? Or was Oswald placed in the TSBD before JFK’s motorcade route was ever a gleam in anyone’s eye? What sense would that make – and again, would it not extend the conspiracy far beyond Dan’s “simple” little absurdity?

If Dan’s little absurdity were true, what possible need would there have been to plant or alter any evidence or engage in any sort of cover-up? Mac Wallace simply did what Oswald is alleged to have done, from the location at which Oswald is alleged to have done it, using either the weapon Oswald is alleged to have used or perhaps a more accurate version of it. (One wonders why LBJ and Byrd would have used a gunman with close connections to LBJ who had previously been convicted of first-degree murder – an odd choice, no? And if this was all as compartmentalized as Dan suggests, who did Wallace think he was assassinating JFK for - Shelley? Cason? Byrd?)

I’m just having a bit of fun playing cross-examining attorney with Dan, doing what cross-examining attorneys do – i.e., expose the holes in a witness’s story. But this exercise really should be instructive for all CTers.

Think about the lowest levels of the people who populate your theory – is it plausible, given the entirety of their lives and circumstances, that they would have risked execution by participating in a Presidential assassination? Do their lives show any evidence of inexplicable material benefit subsequent to the assassination? Is there really any plausible reason to plug them into a conspiracy theory? Or are you, like Dan, just making stuff up?

Then focus on what would actually have had to take place – every last real-world detail – for your theory to have worked. “I don’t know, they somehow targeted Oswald as the patsy.” “I don’t know, they somehow allowed him to walk out of the building.” No, this won’t do. You need to think through every last detail and have at least plausible conjecture for everything from how Oswald got his job at the TSBD to how he became the patsy to how he walked out the door and did everything he subsequently did. That alone is going to take you far beyond Dan's cast of characters.

This is no easy task. The worst of Conspiracy Thinking, such as Dan’s, should be instructive for you as a lesson in how not to go about it. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, mighta is not how a viable conspiracy is constructed.

That's all I have for this witness, your honor. Bailiff, please hand him a tissue to wipe his eyes.

Lance's childish approach to this debate is really disappointing.
I seem to have upset him somehow but he won't say what it is.
This rambling, rant of a post is impossible to engage with - it's a combination of lies, fantasy, misrepresentation and ignorance.

The only coherent argument he makes is that my "simple" theory is somehow too complex to be realistic (I think).
Like almost everything he posts, I find this really baffling.
There are very few moving parts to the theory I am proposing, it is as pared down as I can make it.
It involves a handful of people.
No CIA/FBI/KGB/Mafia/Cubans etc.
No multiple shooters.
Just one man firing a rifle from the Sniper's Nest.

Like all Nutters, Lance is convinced that the theory he believes in is a FACT, He believes that Oswald assassinating JFK is a FACT, when it is a theory.
He has so convinced himself it is a fact that he can't engage in any meaningful way with someone proposing an alternative theory.

Lance, if you can manage a calm, rational, adult debate I would be more than willing to engage.

[Tom Graves]

O'meara,

Don't you think it's pretty amazing that the amount of lead core lost by CE-399 when it was fired through a bale of cotton or a pig carcass (or some-such-thing) so closely matched the amount of lead that was revolvered from JBC's body plus the amount that was estimated from the X-rays to have remained in it?

BTW, which evil, evil conspirator that's evidently not on your list of five gave CE-399 to FBI agent Elmer Todd?