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Author Topic: The Warren Commission Sham  (Read 9496 times)

Online Lance Payette

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2025, 04:03:50 PM »
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This passage from Four Days in November captures my thinking nicely. Note the bolded sentence.

During a search of the sixth floor after the assassination, a detective for the Crime Scene Search Section of the Dallas Police Department found a lunch bag with chicken bones, a piece of waxed paper, and a little piece of Fritos in it in front of the “third” double-window over from the south easternmost window on the sixth floor of the Book Depository Building. He also found a Dr. Pepper bottle nearby. (7 H 146, WCT Robert Lee Studebaker; CD 1245, p.84, FBI interview of Robert Studebaker on May 29, 1964) Since Bonnie Williams had chicken, Fritos, and a Dr. Pepper for lunch at that exact place, that should have been the end of it. Lieutenant J. C. Day dusted the Dr. Pepper bottle for fingerprints, and no prints of Oswald’s were found. When Day later found out the food and drink had belonged to Williams, he decided the lunch bag and Dr. Pepper bottle had no value to the case and threw the sack and bottle away. (CD 1245, p.83) Not so fast, said conspiracy theorist Sylvia Meagher, who said that since Day “saw no need to check the empty bottle for fingerprints other than Oswald’s, we will never know if fingerprints were on the bottle, or whose they were.” And even though Studebaker, whose job it was to search the sixth floor, saw the food and drink next to the third double-window over, and several other witnesses said they saw them in the same place (e.g., 6 H 330–331, WCT William H. Shelley), and Williams himself said that’s where he ate his lunch, Meagher proceeded to cite other witnesses who said they saw food elsewhere, for example, Luke Mooney (3H 288–289), who said he saw a piece of chicken on top of one of the boxes surrounding the sniper’s nest. (Meagher, Accessories after the Fact, pp.39–41)

Other than her and her colleagues’ insatiable passion for pointing out normal (not to them) inconsistencies in the recollections of witnesses, nowhere does Meagher tell her readers what the relevance of these inconsistencies was. Was it her point that Williams was lying, that the chicken eater was the assassin in the sniper’s nest (who wasn’t, Meagher would assure us, Oswald), or Williams was not lying, but the assassin in the sniper’s nest was also eating chicken while he waited to kill the president? I wish the theorists would tell us the relevance of the many inconsistencies they cite in the Kennedy case instead of feeling that the inconsistencies are an end in themselves and nothing else has to be shown or argued.

Or, in Dan's case, that the not-wholly-consistent six officers' statements "are an end in themselves" and Alyea's statement and the internal inconsistencies in BRW's statements are irrelevant "and nothing else has to be shown or argued."

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2025, 04:03:50 PM »


Online Jake Maxwell

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2025, 05:28:04 PM »
Good Lord, you are in the grip of 110-degree Conspiracy Fever. Did you even read Alyea's statement? He was one of the first people on the 6th floor and had absolutely no agenda. Consistent with BRW's first statement, Alyea places the chicken and bottle on the 5th floor. And you say there is ZERO UNCERTAINTY??? Let's increase the Conspiracy Fever to 115. Your six officers' statements aren't even consistent. Alyea's statement is entirely plausible. It's also entirely plausible that BRW, a minimum-wage Black guy and surely not the sharpest tool in the shed, might become confused or even intimidated into changing his story to fit the 6th floor narrative - but so what?

And now we have Jake suggesting BRW was the alternative patsy if "the Oswald scenario" fell through. What on earth would this even MEAN??? We will assign Jake a Conspiracy Fever of, oh, we'll say 142.9.

Are you folks serious? Are you so devoid of rationality (well, Conspiracy Fever does have that effect) that you really can't see that you're spouting nonsense of the first magnitude??? BTW, what happened to the "simple" LBJ-Byrd-Cason-Shelley conspiracy - lost interest in THAT pretty fast, eh? So now we're on to Chicken Bone Bonnie, International Man of Mystery and Assassination Accomplice.  ::)

I accept the designation... But I just checked, it's 143 at present! Some folks need to think out of the box!!

If there actually were a conspiracy to kill the president and then a cover-up - at the level of the FBI and members of the Warren Commission - you can be absolutely certain they would not have left anything to chance - and BRW - with no clout to protect him - was just as likely a patsy as Oswald.

What is the significance of the whereabouts of the lunch?
That just might depend on which patsy you're trying to pin the deed on...
If the lunch is found in the SN, but someone could testify that Oswald already had lunch in the cafeteria, you've got a problem... Maybe this is why there is conflicting testimony on the lunch whereabouts...


 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2025, 05:29:48 PM by Jake Maxwell »

Online Lance Payette

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2025, 07:03:18 PM »
I accept the designation... But I just checked, it's 143 at present! Some folks need to think out of the box!!

If there actually were a conspiracy to kill the president and then a cover-up - at the level of the FBI and members of the Warren Commission - you can be absolutely certain they would not have left anything to chance - and BRW - with no clout to protect him - was just as likely a patsy as Oswald.

What is the significance of the whereabouts of the lunch?
That just might depend on which patsy you're trying to pin the deed on...
If the lunch is found in the SN, but someone could testify that Oswald already had lunch in the cafeteria, you've got a problem... Maybe this is why there is conflicting testimony on the lunch whereabouts...


I appreciate your good humor, Jake, because the whole JFKA Thing has become mostly just a kind-of-fun diversion to me. I hereby humbly reduce your Conspiracy Fever to 98.6.  ;D Honestly, I TRULY DON'T CARE if Oswald was a patsy and the CIA was behind the whole thing. In fact, I'd LOVE it - the weirder the better! I am not among those who think the Lone Nut narrative is some sort of religious truth.

But your "leaving nothing to chance" statement cuts both ways. How would we explain the 4,000 clues that drive the conspiracy bus? While leaving nothing to chance, they were also such bunglers they left 4,000 clues?

The problem with your scenario above is that it's all speculation. Barring some bombshell - highly unlikely - we'll just never know. I have no problem with the idea that the chicken being found on the 6th floor "had to be" the WC narrative so the officers didn't look like lying fools and that BRW was more-or-less intimidated into going along (although, as John notes above, he was saying the 6th floor by the next day). I have great difficulty picturing Black, minimum-wage, employed-two-months, 20-year-old BRW as any sort of plausible accomplice or patsy.

If conspiracy theorizing were done in the vein of "of course it's all just speculation, but it's fun!" the discussions on forums such as this would be far more enjoyable. Too many LNers and CTers alike seem to feel they are promoting and defending some sort of religious truth.

For lots of people, the JFKA seems to have been some sort of life-shattering event. Researcher Walt Brown is only a couple of years older than me, and it sounded when I read his work like he practically had an emotional meltdown at the age of 15. For me, at age 13, it was nothing more than a couple of days off school to go shoot hoops. It's still just an interesting historical curiosity, a real-life Agatha Christie mystery that is kind of fun to play around with - and I welcome thinking outside the box if it's halfway plausible.

 

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2025, 07:03:18 PM »


Online Tom Graves

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2025, 07:51:20 PM »
Payette:

If conspiracy theorizing were done in the vein of "of course it's all just speculation, but it's fun!" the discussions on forums such as this would be far more enjoyable. Too many LNers and CTers alike seem to feel they are promoting and defending some sort of religious truth. For lots of people, the JFKA seems to have been some sort of life-shattering event. Researcher Walt Brown is only a couple of years older than me, and it sounded when I read his work like he practically had an emotional meltdown at the age of 15. For me, at age 13, it was nothing more than a couple of days off school to go shoot hoops. It's still just an interesting historical curiosity, a real-life Agatha Christie mystery that is kind of fun to play around with - and I welcome thinking outside the box if it's halfway plausible.

Me:

The problem is, the KGB* has made hay from the anomaly-replete assassination from Day One, and the JFKA conspiracy theories it has created and/or promulgated have, along with conspiracy theories about HIV/AIDS, the Rock Cocaine Explosion in "the Ghetto," the Moon Landings, Watergate, 9/11, the DNC Hack, and [fill in the blank] have made our body politic so cynical, apathetic and paranoiac about the government (can you say the evil, evil CIA?) that "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin was able, with the help of Paul Manafort, GRU officer Konstantin Kilimnik, Putin's mobbed-up oligarch buddy Oleg Deripaska, Roger Stone, Harley Schlanger, Joseph Mifsud, and probable KGB agent Igor Danchenko, et al. ad nauseam, to install "useful idiot" (or worse) Donald Trump as our final President.

*Today's SVR and FSB
« Last Edit: March 27, 2025, 07:53:07 PM by Tom Graves »

Online Jake Maxwell

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2025, 08:41:02 PM »


Lance... yes, we shouldn't take ourselves or our theories too seriously... a real challenge for humans in general.

I think some of what drives my thinking on this subject, is knowing - or thinking I know - a little too much about some of the possible players on the stage, like LBJ and Hoover.

AND Arlen Specter's theory about the single bullet! Dang, look at the car Specter... Windshield is shot and the car molding... along with JFK and Connally... and the limo is whisked off the scene to be quickly repaired...

AND driver SS agent Bill Greer's rubbernecking and braking until the fatal shot!

AND Hoover's "exerting pressure" on his boys to quickly end their investigation and conclude that Oswald was the lone assassin...

Hoover, Greer, Specter... don't look in my face and lie to me! Yeah, that drives some of my thinking on this, too...

All right... peace!

 

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2025, 08:41:02 PM »


Online Tom Graves

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2025, 08:57:52 PM »
I think some of what drives my thinking on this subject, is knowing - or thinking I know - a little too much about some of the possible players on the stage, like LBJ and Hoover. AND Arlen Specter's theory about the single bullet! Dang, look at the car Specter... Windshield is shot and the car molding... along with JFK and Connally... and the limo is whisked off the scene to be quickly repaired. AND driver SS agent Bill Greer's rubbernecking and braking until the fatal shot! AND Hoover's "exerting pressure" on his boys to quickly end their investigation and conclude that Oswald was the lone assassin. Hoover, Greer, Specter . . .

It's too bad you're so gullible and so open to being influenced by KGB* disinformation, Maxwell.

*Today's SVR and FSB
« Last Edit: March 27, 2025, 08:59:52 PM by Tom Graves »

Online Jake Maxwell

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2025, 09:12:41 PM »
It's too bad you're so gullible and so open to being influenced by KGB* disinformation, Maxwell.

*Today's SVR and FSB

None of the following is disinformation... all well-documented:

AND Arlen Specter's theory about the single bullet! Dang, look at the car Specter... Windshield is shot and the car molding... along with JFK and Connally... and the limo is whisked off the scene to be quickly repaired...

AND driver SS agent Bill Greer's rubbernecking and braking until the fatal shot!

AND Hoover's "exerting pressure" on his boys to quickly end their investigation and conclude that Oswald was the lone assassin...

Online Tom Graves

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2025, 09:26:50 PM »
None of the following is disinformation... all well-documented:

AND Arlen Specter's theory about the single bullet! Dang, look at the car Specter... Windshield is shot and the car molding... along with JFK and Connally... and the limo is whisked off the scene to be quickly repaired...

AND driver SS agent Bill Greer's rubbernecking and braking until the fatal shot!

AND Hoover's "exerting pressure" on his boys to quickly end their investigation and conclude that Oswald was the lone assassin...

All of those "incriminating things" can be explained in a non-conspiratorial way, e.g., "THE WINDSHIELD IS SHOT!!!" (don't you mean to say, ". . . with a through-and-through hole, PROVING THAT THE BULLET THAT CAUSED IT MUST HAVE COME FROM THE FRONT!!!"?).

To wit: It wasn't a through-and-through hole; the windshield (and the chrome strip) had been hit by a largish fragment from the Z-313 fatal head shot, the impact caused the laminated windshield to lose a chunk of glass from its outside layer, only, and the lead fragment left a residue of lead on the inside surface of the windshield, not the outside.

D'oh
« Last Edit: March 27, 2025, 09:30:07 PM by Tom Graves »

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Re: The Warren Commission Sham
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2025, 09:26:50 PM »