The Warren Commission Sham

[Tom Graves]

The point was you said one guy said this I said one guy said the opposite. So what?



The bullet on the far right is a bullet that hit a wrist bone.
That's evidence.
That's what CE399 should've looked like.

Except the bullet on the right hit the radial bone neither the same way (tumbling / twirling) nor as slowly as CE-399 did.

[Jim Hawthorn]

The point was you said one guy said this I said one guy said the opposite. So what?



The bullet on the far right is a bullet that hit a wrist bone.
That's evidence.
That's what CE399 should've looked like.

However, as John Mytton said on another thread, the bullet would have been greatly slowed down after having passed through Kennedy's neck/upper torso and Connelly's torso and would have only slapped into his wrist bone.

Also Dan, how do you reply to what John said here:

Another interesting observation is why would the conspirators plant a whole bullet? In another thread Dan rightfully points out that a full speed bullet that strikes bone will radically deform and at this early stage when Tomlinson discovered CE399 as it rolled out from under a mat, they iirc were still operating on Connally.
So somehow the conspirators knew the wounds, knew a fraction of lead was left behind, knew to plant a bullet with one side flattened which is totally consistent with CE399's sideways journey through Connally's torso, knew that CE399 was slowed down as it passed through Kennedy and Connally so it only fractured Connally's wrist instead of smashing it as a full speed bullet will do and then CE399 barely had enough kinetic energy left to only partially penetrate Connally's thigh.
So either the conspirators were extremely powerful clairvoyants or CE399 was by definition the only plausible bullet that satisfied all of the requirements!

[Dan O'meara]

Except the bullet on the right hit the radial bone neither the same way (tumbling / twirling) nor as slowly as CE-399 did.

Just to clear this LNer myth up.
The idea that a bullet that was tumbling and moving slower as it smashed a wrist bone would sustain damage similar to CE399 is just made up.
LNer's have a tendency to believe that if they repeat something often enough it becomes a fact - like it was Oswald who took the shots.
Produce evidence that supports your assertion Tom as I have produced evidence that supports mine.

Oh, and you forgot to clear this up...

Just to clear up your use of the word "sideswiped".
Is it your understanding that the tumbling bullet passed straight through JBC's radial bone or did the tumbling bullet just glance the bone?
Your use of the word "sideswiped" seems to suggest it was just a glancing blow.



Note - the wrist bone has been shattered into multiple pieces.
Note - there is no sign of a hole through which the tumbling bullet passed.
Note - there are multiple metal fragments in a non-linear spread.

[Tom Graves]

The idea that a bullet that was tumbling and moving slower as it smashed a wrist bone would sustain damage similar to CE399 is just made up.

Although your syntax is tortuous as all heck, I think I understand what you're trying to say, so let me pose a couple of questions to you:

Do you agree that the bullet had slowed down considerably by the time it hit JBC's radial bone?

Do you agree that it was tumbling when it hit JBC's radial bone?

If not, how do you explain the 15mm x 6mm entry wound in JBC's back, the fact that it rode along JBC's fifth rib for several centimeters, and the very large exit wound in JBC's chest?

You posted earlier:

"JFK and JBC were shot through by the first bullet. This bullet fragmented upon striking JBC's wrist bone. The second bullet was the headshot. This bullet also fragmented. Some of these fragments struck the windshield and chrome trim causing Greer and Kellerman to duck from the 'flurry' of shots."

What happened to the fragments from the bullet that passed through JFK and hit JBC's wrist?

[Royell Storing]

 Nobody wants to address the Real Issue: (1) You gotta bullet alleged to "yaw" all over hell's half acre while causing multiple wounds and fracturing bones along its' way. This bullet being recovered in Pristine Condition.  vs   (2) A bullet striking the JFK Skull resulting in an Explosion on Impact.  Are these bullets the exact same ammo fired from the exact same weapon? NOPE!

[Dan O'meara]

However, as John Mytton said on another thread, the bullet would have been greatly slowed down after having passed through Kennedy's neck/upper torso and Connelly's torso and would have only slapped into his wrist bone.

Hi Jim, as I've just pointed out to Tom, the idea that a tumbling bullet that had slowed down as it smashed a wrist bone, would sustain damage similar to that present on CE399, is made up. No one has ever produced any evidence to demonstrate this claim. It is just something that gets repeated so often people assume it's some kind of fact.
I believe the bullet that passed through JFK and JBC fragmented when it shattered JBC's wrist bone. When we look at the X-ray below and see how the metal fragments are scattered throughout the wound it seems obvious, to me at least, that this spread of fragments is caused by a bullet fragmenting and some of the smaller fragments being blown into the wound.



How could CE399 spread fragments throughout the wound like this?
More importantly, how could a bullet, supposedly rotating at incredibly high speed, pass directly through the wrist bone without leaving any evidence of doing so. The bullet didn't glance the wrist bone or "sideswipe" it - it passed directly through the bone.
This is what a wrist bone looks like when a bullet has passed through it:



It doesn't matter what speed the bullet is traveling, it has to make it's way through the bone and, therefore, leave a hole as it passes through. There is absolutely no evidence that a rotating bullet passed through JBC's wrist bone.
I vaguely remember someone trying to argue that the bullet passed through JBC's wrist bone just quick enough to smash it to pieces but slow enough so that after it had made it's way through to the other side the pieces came back together again!! The mental gymnastics some people employ to "win a point" never ceases to amaze me

Final note on this - the idea that the bullet was tumbling was invented by Dr Gregory to explain the only way it was possible for CE399 to leave metal fragments in a wound. The only exposed part of CE399 from which metal fragments could have come is at the base, therefore, if the bullet was CE399 it must have entered the wound base-first, therefore it had to be rotating, therefore CE399 is a tumbling bullet. What is odd with this is that it seems to have stopped tumbling when it hit JBC's wrist because it entered JBC's thigh base-first as well as entering the wrist base-first. How is this possible if the bullet is tumbling?

Also Dan, how do you reply to what John said here:

"Another interesting observation is why would the conspirators plant a whole bullet? In another thread Dan rightfully points out that a full speed bullet that strikes bone will radically deform and at this early stage when Tomlinson discovered CE399 as it rolled out from under a mat, they iirc were still operating on Connally.
So somehow the conspirators knew the wounds, knew a fraction of lead was left behind, knew to plant a bullet with one side flattened which is totally consistent with CE399's sideways journey through Connally's torso, knew that CE399 was slowed down as it passed through Kennedy and Connally so it only fractured Connally's wrist instead of smashing it as a full speed bullet will do and then CE399 barely had enough kinetic energy left to only partially penetrate Connally's thigh.
So either the conspirators were extremely powerful clairvoyants or CE399 was by definition the only plausible bullet that satisfied all of the requirements!"

John's hypothetical situation falls down because anyone who was aware that the bullet had smashed JBC's wrist bone would've created a "plant' that was way more deformed. The idea of a rotating bullet was something that was invented way after the day of the assassination.
If conspirators had indeed created a bullet to mimic what they thought the situation was, it would imply they thought the bullet had only hit JFK and hadn't hit JBC at all.
Maybe these conspirators were aware that Hulmes and Boswell thought a bullet had been forced out of JFK by massaging his chest during CPR or something and made the plant before it was realized there was an exit wound on the neck. Maybe they were being updated by Silbert and O' Neill.
It's possible to speculate almost any scenario.

[Dan O'meara]

Although your syntax is tortuous as all heck, I think I understand what you're trying to say, so let me pose a couple of questions to you:

Do you agree that the bullet had slowed down considerably by the time it hit JBC's radial bone?

It definitely slowed down.

Do you agree that it was tumbling when it hit JBC's radial bone?

No

If not, how do you explain the 15mm x 6mm entry wound in JBC's back, the fact that it rode along JBC's fifth rib for several centimeters, and the very large exit wound in JBC's chest?

There was a large exit wound in JBC's chest because so much bone/tissue was blown out of his chest causing his jacket to bulge forward for a split second, as seen in the Z-film.
It has nothing to do with a tumbling bullet.
We know this by the size of the bullet hole in the front of JBC's jacket



Look at the size of the hole compared to the button. You're well within your rights to interpret that as evidence of a tumbling bullet but I won't be joining you on that ride.
One question though - if the bullet was rotating and it entered JBC's wrist base-first, how did it enter JBC's thigh base-first as well?

You posted earlier:

"JFK and JBC were shot through by the first bullet. This bullet fragmented upon striking JBC's wrist bone. The second bullet was the headshot. This bullet also fragmented. Some of these fragments struck the windshield and chrome trim causing Greer and Kellerman to duck from the 'flurry' of shots."

What happened to the fragments from the bullet that passed through JFK and hit JBC's wrist?

The largest fragment deflected away from the wrist and lodged itself in JBC's thigh. As he was being moved from his stretcher to the examining table it fell on the floor making a noise similar to a "wedding band" hitting the floor. This large fragment of bullet was picked up by a nurse who showed it to Henry Wade who was there visiting his good freind Connally. Wade told the nurse to give the bullet to a police officer. Apparently, she put the large bullet fragment in a small envelope and gave it to Texas Highway Patrolman Bob Nolan. At some point on it's journey this large bullet fragment magically transformed into four small bullet fragments.
A much smaller piece broke off the bullet, passed through the wrist bone and created a small slit-like exit wound in the crease of the wrist.
Question - how did a rotating bullet smashing through bone and tissue create a small slit-like exit wound as it blew through the wrist?
How unusual it was to have an exit wound that was much smaller that the entry wound 

Where did this small fragment go?
It probably ended up in the Secret Service mop bucket that was (quite unbelievably) used to destroy the crime scene, probably along with a lot of other ballistic evidence.
If only a proper investigation of the crime scene had been conducted.

[Jim Hawthorn]

Dan,
I agree that the small hole does not fit the theory of a "tumbling" bullet, or one that has been simply tilted. So if that bullet was still following a linear trajectory how could it have left the dispersed fragments in Connelly's wrist?