Why Was Oswald's Military Spy Plane Knowledge Considered Of No Value To USSR ?

[Charles Collins]

n b

Thanks Charles,
Given his anger, His reported lifelong need to be a notable person of importance, in starting a brand new life in USSR do you find it more plausible that LHO either hoped to use his military security clearance as a card to play in impressing & gaining prominence with his new communist comrades , or he just decided to never mention a word of it.
I find it hard given what we know about his personality that he had no hopes of parlaying his military intelligence experience into a position of some importance in the communist party ?
Being advised from his new leaders that " we already know all that , now got to work in the factory "  would have been a very bitter pill for him to swallow given his fantasy of having his own office at the Kremlin.
Don't you think it possible that having pinned his grandiose  hopes of becoming a brand new person of political importance in the communist Party thru his military experience, but then being rejected and told to go work in a factory this could be a source of his disillusionment with USSR and be the source of his returning to home.

Most of us cannot fathom what must have been going through the mind of someone cowardly enough to take a high powered rifle and shoot (ambush) an unarmed man from behind. There are a lot of contradictions in what we do have evidence of. He writes in the same letter of “killing Americans in uniform,” and also of living a normal happy and peaceful life in the USSR. Frankly I do not believe that he had any experience or information that would be of much interest the Soviet intelligence community. And I suspect that LHO also knew that. So, I disagree with your idea.

Some people have a tendency to go way overboard with their political beliefs. Take for example Eric Rudolph who apparently felt it was necessary for him to plant bombs and kill innocent people (including the totally unrelated Olympics venue in Atlanta). Supposedly, all because he was apparently upset about the abortion clinics. I put LHO in a similar category. We are talking about fanatical people and actions that cannot be easily explained by reason. There are quite a few choices that we could try to attribute to LHO’s motive. And all of them could potentially be partially correct. It might have been a combination of those possible motives plus the fact that the opportunity to take a few shots at JFK was too tempting for him to resist. But trying to make the assassination a logical choice is something that I think is probably impossible for most of us to grasp.

[Charles Collins]

The Epstein book "Legend" is, I think, greatly overlooked. Yes, he fell for Angelton's theory that Oswald was a KGB asset or agent but the book has a great deal of information about Oswald's time in the Marines especially at Atsugi. Epstein interviewed about 35 Marines who were in Oswald's unit (MACS-1), some at the same time he was there, and their description of the security is stunning. Essentially none. Many people on the base were aware of the flights; they didn't know where it went but some suspected they were flown over the USSR.

And as you mentioned before, several Marines said that when Oswald came out of the brig he was completely different. Very angry and distant. From their account the brig was a very tough experience for people to go through. Brutal.

As to the Soviets: I still don't know what they questioned him about. Nosenko said they didn't know about his U-2 knowledge (What? They didn't ask him about his Marine experience?) while others said they did but he didn't know anything that they already knew. I do think that after the attempted suicide they considered him to erratic and nutty to really use.

Thanks Steve, I will put that book on my list. Yes, the brig was reportedly brutal. Plus I think that LHO’s ego just wasn’t able to cope with the situation.

[Watson Phillips]

Most of us cannot fathom what must have been going through the mind of someone cowardly enough to take a high powered rifle and shoot (ambush) an unarmed man from behind. There are a lot of contradictions in what we do have evidence of. He writes in the same letter of “killing Americans in uniform,” and also of living a normal happy and peaceful life in the USSR. Frankly I do not believe that khe had any experience or information that would be of much interest the Soviet intelligence community. And I suspect that LHO also knew that. So, I disagree with your idea.

 So you think Oswald felt that his military security clearance background would hopefully merit him a menial labor factory job in his new, decidedly militaristic, country ?
That being the case He should have been quite happy then with that sort of normal happy menial labor factory job he dreamed of & was graciously awarded with then ?
Yes?
 Or do you think HE had greater expectations for what professional position the communists would consider he merited based on his background ?
 Remember , we are talking here about what Oswald dreamed of & for himself , not the low regard  with which the communists actually esteemed him .

[Charles Collins]

So you think Oswald felt that his military security clearance background would hopefully merit him a menial labor factory job in his new, decidedly militaristic, country ?
That being the case He should have been quite happy then with that sort of normal happy menial labor factory job he dreamed of & was graciously awarded with then ?
Yes?
 Or do you think HE had greater expectations for what professional position the communists would consider he merited based on his background ?
 Remember , we are talking here about what Oswald dreamed of & for himself , not the low regard  with which the communists actually esteemed him .

In my opinion, LHO mostly just wanted to “moon” the U.S. I don’t think that he had thought a whole lot about what he thought he might be doing in the USSR. I doubt that LHO would have been happy for very long regardless of where he was or what he was doing.

I am not trying to make a comparison. But do you think that Adolph Hitler would have been happy if he had been able to conquer the entire world?

[Watson Phillips]

A Soviet military intelligence officer and double agent, Pyotr Popov, told the CIA in 1958 that the Soviets had acquired operational details of the U2. According to the accounts when the CIA was told about it they were stunned. If you do a search for: "Pyotr Popov and U-2" you'll get the details.

Short version: Oswald didn't have any information that the Soviets already knew.

And if you read the Epstein book "Legend", you'll learn that Oswald didn't know much about the U2 that the other Marines in his unit didn't know. They - Oswald and his fellow radar operators - watched the U2 take off on their screens and then land. Soviet radar operators could see much of this too (except for the landing/taking off).

Thanks Steve,
But Why would any of that prevent a disturbed individual like Oswald from believing he knew more than all the rest, and therefore had more to offer than all the rest.
Not talking about reality here, we are talking about what the grandiose imaginations of an obviously mentally disturbed individual were
In fact did not Oswald have history of considering himself to be more knowledgeable than those around him?
I came across this report that Oswald even brought up the fact of o his military  security knowledge at the Embassy before he was even granted admission .
Do you consider this to be an erroneous report about what he was saying to gain soviet citizenship ?


The Incredible, Amazing, Disturbing, Mysterious Story of Lee Harvey Oswald

Phillip BartlingPhillip Bartling
Phillip Bartling
Owner/Editor @The Philthy Times--If you want to know, read the book. "Lessons From a Nuclear War" It's cheap! Shareable e-book is just $4.95 on Amazon!
Published Apr 2, 2022
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At first, Oswald was denied Soviet Citizenship and ordered to leave Russia, but he attempted suicide by cutting his wrist, and he was held in a psychiatric hospital for a time, after which he appeared at the US Embassy in front of both American and Russian officials, and during that meeting Oswald revealed that he was a former Marine who’d possessed a top secret security clearance and that he was willing to give the Russians “radar secrets.”

[Watson Phillips]

In my opinion, LHO mostly just wanted to “moon” the U.S. I don’t think that he had thought a whole lot about what he thought he might be doing in the USSR. I doubt that LHO would have been happy for very long regardless of where he was or what he was doing.

How could he not be thinking of what his new day to day  life in a new country would consist of ,starting life over ?
Especially considering his beliefs on how the common working class was being screwed in the country he was leaving in his rear view mirror ?
You just got done posting his own words where speaks of living a  " HAPPY NORMAL LIFE" !
How could he be thinking of living a "HAPPY NORMAL LIFE"  removed from thinking about what he would be doing day to day ?


Quote from: Charles Collins on Today at 01:26:09 PM


The last sentence visible in that image of the letter to Robert Oswald probably best answers the question that Watson Phillips asked. LHO himself wrote that he wanted to lead a “normal happy and peaceful life” in the USSR.

[Charles Collins]

How could he not be thinking of what his new day to day  life in a new country would consist of ,starting life over ?
Especially considering his beliefs on how the common working class was being screwed in the country he was leaving in his rear view mirror ?
You just got done posting his own words where speaks of living a  " HAPPY NORMAL LIFE" !
How could he be thinking of living a "HAPPY NORMAL LIFE"  removed from thinking about what he would be doing day to day ?

I don’t have any way to know what he was thinking. You asked my opinion. I gave my opinion. There is a difference in “not thinking a whole lot” and not thinking at all. Don’t you agree?
The last sentence visible in that image of the letter to Robert Oswald probably best answers the question that Watson Phillips asked. LHO himself wrote that he wanted to lead a “normal happy and peaceful life” in the USSR.[/b]

[Watson Phillips]

How could he not be thinking of what his new day to day  life in a new country would consist of ,starting life over ?
Especially considering his beliefs on how the common working class was being screwed in the country he was leaving in his rear view mirror ?
You just got done posting his own words where speaks of living a  " HAPPY NORMAL LIFE" !
How could he be thinking of living a "HAPPY NORMAL LIFE"  removed from thinking about what he would be doing day to day ?


Quote from: Charles Collins on Today at 01:26:09 PM


I don’t have any way to know what he was thinking. You asked my opinion. I gave my opinion. There is a difference in “not thinking a whole lot” and not thinking at all. Don’t you agree?
The last sentence visible in that image of the letter to Robert Oswald probably best answers the question that Watson Phillips asked. LHO himself wrote that he wanted to lead a “normal happy and peaceful life” in the USSR.

=================================================================================================================================
This book states that Oswald felt he had cards to play based on his security clearance before he had ever been allowed to stay in Russia .
Had you ever heard this ?




The Incredible, Amazing, Disturbing, Mysterious Story of Lee Harvey Oswald
Phillip BartlingPhillip Bartling
Phillip Bartling
Owner/Editor @The Philthy Times--If you want to know, read the book. "Lessons From a Nuclear War" It's cheap! Shareable e-book is just $4.95 on Amazon!
Published Apr 2, 2022
+ Follow
At first, Oswald was denied Soviet Citizenship and ordered to leave Russia, but he attempted suicide by cutting his wrist, and he was held in a psychiatric hospital for a time, after which he appeared at the US Embassy in front of both American and Russian officials, and during that meeting Oswald revealed that he was a former Marine who’d possessed a top secret security clearance and that he was willing to give the Russians “radar secrets.”