JFKA CTs need to believe a government agency or rogue actors thereof killed JFK

[Tom Graves]

It’s 2025 and you still believe the Russiagate nonsense?

And yet you have the audacity to call other people CT’ers?

Please elaborate on how Putin installed Trump in the White House. You know I love a good conspiracy theory 😂

It's not nonsense, Banksie.

Read the Mueller Report, the (bipartisan) Senate Intelligence Committee report, and Craig Unger's 2021 book, American Kompromat.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Sure, I believe there is a reason that CIA-oriented conspiracy theories are the rage while more plausible ones, like the Mafia, get short shrift. The Morley-Newman-Di Eugenio wing of Conspiracy World epitomizes this. These are mostly extremely left-leaning characters who believe the country has gone to hell in a handbasket since the JFKA and that we'd be living in a near-utopia if JFK and RFK had lived. They have elevated JFK and RFK to near sainthood, even to the extent of imagining policies and accomplishments that simply aren't true. The theorizing almost works in reverse: the country has gone to hell since the JFKA, hence the Dark Evil Forces responsible for this "must" have been responsible for the JFKA. I think they are less interested in the JFKA as a historical event than as a validation of their worldview. Plus, of course, elaborate CIA-type theories are simply more fun than some mundane Mafia hit. The LN narrative, of course, is completely unacceptable since it explains and validates nothing.

I started a thread on this topic at the Ed Forum after I'd been a member only a short time because what I was observing was so screamingly obvious. Suffice it to say, it wasn't popular.

I think it's interesting that those leftists who don't believe there was a conspiracy are also people with a critical view of JFK, people who don't see him as a transformative president. No Camelot for them with JFK. Think of a Chomsky, the late I.F. Stone and a few others. These are or were hardcore leftwingers but they viewed JFK as another Cold War warrior who was behind the Cuban covert war (recall Stone's statement after the assassination?) and simply wasn't going to just leave Vietnam (he wasn't) or dismantle the containment policies of the post-war period.

Those on the Left, however, who do view JFK as "one of ours", as someone who was going to expose the "war state" (as Garrison called it) and end the Vietnam war, normalize relations with Castro - that is, someone who was essentially going to, as they saw it, take democracy back from the right wing militarists who stole it after WWII - are really the ones who see the CIA behind it all. That's Stone, Morley, DiEugenio, Douglass, et al.

It's ironic that the real question that divides the CT/LN sides isn't just "Who was Lee Harvey Oswald?" it was "Who was John F. Kennedy?"

[Jon Banks]

Sure, I believe there is a reason that CIA-oriented conspiracy theories are the rage while more plausible ones, like the Mafia, get short shrift. The Morley-Newman-Di Eugenio wing of Conspiracy World epitomizes this. These are mostly extremely left-leaning characters who believe the country has gone to hell in a handbasket since the JFKA and that we'd be living in a near-utopia if JFK and RFK had lived. They have elevated JFK and RFK to near sainthood, even to the extent of imagining policies and accomplishments that simply aren't true. The theorizing almost works in reverse: the country has gone to hell since the JFKA, hence the Dark Evil Forces responsible for this "must" have been responsible for the JFKA. I think they are less interested in the JFKA as a historical event than as a validation of their worldview. Plus, of course, elaborate CIA-type theories are simply more fun than some mundane Mafia hit. The LN narrative, of course, is completely unacceptable since it explains and validates nothing.

I started a thread on this topic at the Ed Forum after I'd been a member only a short time because what I was observing was so screamingly obvious. Suffice it to say, it wasn't popular.

I admit that as a Progressive Democrat, I’m guilty as charged.

Given all the horrible things the FBI and CIA have done at home and abroad, I don’t think it’s implausible that individuals connected to those agencies were complicit in a plot to kill a US president.

I understand that some people think that the US national security state plotting against a US President is a bridge too far for plausibility. But I personally don’t believe it’s implausible given what we know (confirmed history, not conspiracy theories) about the unethical things that individuals and leaders within those agencies have done.

And yes, I agree that an individual’s political views and biases play a role in how they interpret the facts of the JFK assassination investigations. Bias is unavoidable regardless of which side of this issue you fall on.

I believe it’s plausible that the mafia and other non-state actors were involved (the mafia collaborated with the military and CIA between WW2 and the 1960s) but certain things involving Oswald pre and post assassination can only be explained in the context of intelligence operations.

[Jon Banks]

It's not nonsense, Banksie.

Read the Mueller Report, the (bipartisan) Senate Intelligence Committee report, and Craig Unger's 2021 book, American Kompromat.

You are misrepresenting the conclusions of those investigations Vladdy. 😂

Neither Mueller nor the Senate concluded that “Putin installed Trump” or successfully rigged the 2016 election.

[Tom Graves]

I think it's interesting that those leftists who don't believe there was a conspiracy are also people with a critical view of JFK, people who don't see him as a transformative president. No Camelot for them in old Jack. Think of Chomsky, the late I.F. Stone and a few others. These are or were hardcore leftwingers but they viewed JFK as another Cold War warrior who was behind the Cuban covert war and simply wasn't going to just leave Vietnam (he wasn't).

Those on the Left who do view JFK as "one of ours", as someone who was going to expose the "war state" (as Garrison called it) and end the Vietnam war, normalize relations with Castro - essentially someone who was going to take our democracy back from the right wing militarists who stole it after WWII - are really the ones who see the CIA behind it all. That's Stone, Morley, DiEugenio et al.

It's ironic that the real question that divides the CT/LN sides isn't just "Who was Lee Harvey Oswald?" it was "Who was John F. Kennedy?"

I think 90% of those on the Far Left and on the Far Right believe the JFK assassination was committed by the evil, evil, evil CIA (or rogue agents thereof).

[Tom Graves]

You are misrepresenting the conclusions of those investigations, Vladdy. 😂

Neither Mueller nor the Senate concluded that “Putin installed Trump” or successfully rigged the 2016 election.

The KGB* has been waging Sun Tzu-based deception, "active measures," and "Inside Man" / "Outside Man" strategic deception counterintelligence operations against us and our NATO allies since 1959, and they finally paid off in 2016 when our body politic had become so cynical, paranoiac, and apathetic that Putin, with a little help from his GRU and FSB hackers, Julian Assange, his professional Saint Petersburg trolls, Roger Stone, Harley Schlanger, Paul Manafort, Konstantin Kilimnik, Oleg Deripaska, et al. ad nauseam, was able to get The Traitorous Orange Bird elected as our "President."

Mueller's biggest shortcoming was that he conducted a criminal investigation when he should have conducted a counterintelligence investigation.

Regardless, why are you calling me "Vladdy," punk?

*Today's SVR and FSB

[Tom Graves]

I admit that as a Progressive Democrat, I’m guilty as charged.

Given all the horrible things the FBI and CIA have done at home and abroad, I don’t think it’s implausible that individuals connected to those agencies were complicit in a plot to kill a US president.

I understand that some people think that the US national security state plotting against a US President is a bridge too far for plausibility. But I personally don’t believe it’s implausible given what we know (confirmed history, not conspiracy theories) about the unethical things that individuals and leaders within those agencies have done.

And yes, I agree that an individual’s political views and biases play a role in how they interpret the facts of the JFK assassination investigations. Bias is unavoidable regardless of which side of this issue you fall on.

I believe it’s plausible that the mafia and other non-state actors were involved (the mafia collaborated with the military and CIA between WW2 and the 1960s) but certain things involving Oswald pre and post assassination can only be explained in the context of intelligence operations.

The problem is, Lefty-Banksie, you probably think The Cold War ended in December 1991, and that even before that, the KGB* and the GRU were world-class (pardon the pun) humanitarian organizations, right?

*Today's SVR and FSB

[Jon Banks]

The KGB* has been waging Sun Tzu-based deception, "active measures," and "Inside Man" / "Outside Man" strategic deception counterintelligence operations against us and our NATO allies since 1959, and they finally paid off in 2016 when our body politic had become so cynical, paranoiac, and apathetic that Putin, with a little help from his GRU and FSB hackers, Julian Assange, his professional Saint Petersburg trolls, Roger Stone, Harley Schlanger, Paul Manafort, Konstantin Kilimnik, Oleg Deripaska, et al. ad nauseam, was able to get The Traitorous Orange Bird elected as our "President."

Mueller's biggest shortcoming was that he conducted a criminal investigation when he should have conducted a counterintelligence investigation.

Regardless, why are you calling me "Vladdy," punk?

*Today's SVR and FSB

Because you’re sowing discord. For all we know, YOU could be the KGB troll. 🧌

And you don’t even have the honesty to admit that you’re speculating about Russia’s role in our elections.

There’s no proof that Trump didn’t win the 2016 and 2024 elections fair and square.

I say this as a lifelong Democrat who was honest enough to admit that the Russiagate conspiracy theories were full of gaping holes…