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Author Topic: JFKA CTs need to believe a government agency or rogue actors thereof killed JFK  (Read 2202 times)

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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No, the problem is that I know too much about US intelligence operations outside of the Kennedy assassination.

I’ve read biographies on Allan Dulles, James Angelton, and various books about covert operations abroad. I’ve studied COINTELPRO, MKULTRA, CHAOS, etc.

It’s not just my political biases but also the pattern of behavior of our national security state which leads me to believe it’s plausible that they were complicit in the Kennedy assassination.
But your problem here is that almost all of that was approved or ordered by Presidents (Cointelpro was done by the FBI). E.g., the covert war on Cuba essentially ended after JFK was killed. Why do you think that happened? Did you read the Weiner book on the CIA? The nasty stuff was on orders of Presidents. Ike, JFK, Nixon. I think that's why leftists like I.F. Stone and Chomsky, and a few others, didn't and don't believe in the "CIA did it" conspiracy. They knew who JFK was and they knew that many of the awful things the CIA did was on orders. It wasn't a rogue agency.

The idea that the CIA did bad things A, B, and C (and they did terrible things) means they killed their own President and then others went along to cover it up is preposterous. You are not talking about the national security state. You are talking about almost the entire government and news media.

You don't actually think someone like Hersh would cover this up? The same people who exposed the abuses you mentioned have covered up for the murder of JFK? That's completely illogical.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2025, 12:39:07 AM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Online Jon Banks

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Coming from anyone else this might be a serious question but coming from a guy who believes Russia and Putin are behind almost every event in history it is unintentionally hilarious.  All baseless conspiracy theories from UFO to Bigfoot to JFK assassination need a government conspiracy by necessity to explain why they can never prove their pet conspiracy.   Why?  Because the government men in black are always just a step ahead to cover it up.

Well we know for a fact that several government agencies participated in cover-ups relating to the Kennedy assassination. Both the FBI and CIA admit it. Other agencies haven't gone as far in admitting to cover ups but we know the Secret Service and Defense Dept suppressed some evidence too. What we don't know is "why" the need for a cover up when LHO was just "a lone loser"?

Online Jon Banks

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I hear you, Bro.

The evil, evil CIA did all of those nasty, nasty things against the world-class humanitarian organizations known as the KGB* and the GRU!!!

You know what's really groovy? Comrade Morley's book, The Ghost, about James JESUS Angleton!!! (Even though he still believes Yuri Nosenko was a true defector.)

Peace, Bro!!!

Why don't you do yourself a favor and google probable mole "Bruce Leonard Solie," and CIA good-guy, "Tennent H. Bagley," for starters?

*Today's SVR and FSB

The KGB/GRU does bad things to both good and bad people.

The CIA/FBI does bad things to both good and bad people.

Democracy is real and makes us superior to Russia but American Exceptionalism is not real. Our government does bad things and lies to us too…

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Online Tom Graves

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The KGB/GRU does bad things to both good and bad people.

The CIA/FBI does bad things to both good and bad people. Democracy is real and makes us superior to Russia but American Exceptionalism is not real. Our government does bad things and lies to us too…

The KGB* (under one of its earlier names) murdered 2 - 3 million people in Ukraine in the 1930s by confiscating their harvests and letting them starve to death, millions of Soviet citizens were killed in "the Gulag" under Stalin and Soviet dictators, and your buddy, "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin, murdered 307 of his own citizens in the 1999 Russian Apartment Bombings so that he could become president and start the Second Chechen War and oh yeah, help Assad bomb and poison people in Syria, etc, etc.

*Today's SVR and FSB

Online Jon Banks

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But your problem here is that almost all of that was approved or ordered by Presidents (Cointelpro was done by the FBI). E.g., the covert war on Cuba essentially ended after JFK was killed.
 

False.  In fact, LBJ approved the execution of Che Guevara.  The CIA continued supporting Cuban exile militias/terrorists into the 90s.

You can argue that LBJ dialed back our focus on Cuba after the Kennedy assassination but our covert operations against Cuba lasted throughout the Cold War and intelligence ops against Cuba continued into the Obama administration under USAID.


Why do you think that happened? Did you read the Weiner book on the CIA? The nasty stuff was on orders of Presidents. Ike, JFK, Nixon. I think that's why leftists like I.F. Stone and Chomsky, and a few others, didn't and don't believe in the "CIA did it" conspiracy. They knew who JFK was and they knew that many of the awful things the CIA did was on orders. It wasn't a rogue agency.

Have you read the unredacted Schlesinger-JFK memo?

How can you read that memo and not be convinced that the CIA went rogue in the 1960s? (I tend to believe they were more rogue prior to the Church investigations than they are today FYI)

How can you read President Truman's call for the CIA to be reeled-in a month after Kennedy's assassination as anything other than suggesting that Presidents don't fully control the agency? (Dulles, who was no longer officially with the agency at that time, tried to stop Truman from publishing the letter)

Truman in 1963: "Limit CIA Role To Intelligence" - https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/TrumanLimitCIA.html

You seem like a smart guy so I assume it's that you're in denial, not naive.


The idea that the CIA did bad things A, B, and C (and they did terrible things) means they killed their own President and then others went along to cover it up is preposterous.

Did I say that? No. I said it's plausible that they were involved. I remain open to other explanations but, no, I don't think it's implausible that the JFK assassination was an inside job.

There are many reasons why, including the pattern of unethical behavior by the CIA and the FBI over the course of the history of those agencies.




You are not talking about the national security state. You are talking about almost the entire government and news media.

I believe the mainstream news media has been complicit in the cover up over the last 60+ years.

I do not believe the entire government or the news media was complicit in the actual plot against JFK.


You don't actually think someone like Hersh would cover this up? The same people who exposed the abuses you mentioned have covered up for the murder of JFK?

I respect Sy Hersh's and Noam Chomsky's work on other topics but they are wrong about JFK. Everything we've learned in the declassification of JFK files since the 1990s has corroborated the claims that JFK didn't trust the CIA, or the Joint Chiefs, and that JFK wanted to get out of Vietnam.

Whether or not Kennedy would've followed through on pulling out of Vietnam had he not been killed is impossible to know. But there's now a mountain of evidence proving that he did in fact want our troops out of Vietnam.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2025, 01:13:45 AM by Jon Banks »

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Online Jon Banks

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The KGB* (under one of its earlier names) murdered 2 - 3 million people in Ukraine in the 1930s by confiscating their harvests and letting them starve to death, millions of Soviet citizens were killed in "the Gulag" under Stalin and Soviet dictators, and your buddy, "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin, murdered 307 of his own citizens in the 1999 Russian Apartment Bombings so that he could become president and start the Second Chechen War and oh yeah, help Assad bomb and poison people in Syria, etc, etc.

*Today's SVR and FSB

How many millions of people did our government kill between Vietnam in the 1960s and the Middle East today? Easily several million between Vietnam and Iraq alone.

Trump is mass murdering innocent people in Yemen while also assisting Israel's mass murder of Palestinians.

He is also kidnapping immigrants and sending them to a gulag in El Salvador.

We are not exceptional.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2025, 01:11:10 AM by Jon Banks »

Online Richard Smith

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Well we know for a fact that several government agencies participated in cover-ups relating to the Kennedy assassination. Both the FBI and CIA admit it. Other agencies haven't gone as far in admitting to cover ups but we know the Secret Service and Defense Dept suppressed some evidence too. What we don't know is "why" the need for a cover up when LHO was just "a lone loser"?

To the extent the FBI or CIA participated in any "cover up" it was to protect themselves from criticism that perhaps they should have kept better tabs on Oswald.  At worst it was CYA.  To extrapolate from that to participation in a conspiracy to assassinate the president, frame Oswald, and kill the patsy is light years in difference.

Online Jon Banks

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To the extent the FBI or CIA participated in any "cover up" it was to protect themselves from criticism that perhaps they should have kept better tabs on Oswald.  At worst it was CYA.  To extrapolate from that to participation in a conspiracy to assassinate the president, frame Oswald, and kill the patsy is light years in difference.

All of the above are possible, including complicity in JFK's murder. Neither of us can draw any airtight conclusions about the why because neither of us are in a position to know what secrets they wanted to hide or are still hiding.

 




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