Cowlick, low EOP ... or perhaps front?

[John Mytton]

Huh? What do you mean? There is no "large wound" visible in this autopsy photo below at all....so how could the ruler in the picture be "pointing out" any of the dimensions of the large wound (which, of course, was located on the right/front/top part of JFK's head, not in the rear of the head?

Agreed

At the autopsy they also took a specific pair of photos of this wound and it's clear as the scalp is pulled and tightened, the wound responds as one would expect by narrowing.



Now even though the above autopsy wound morph along with the Back of head autopsy photo shows exactly where the wound was, we also have Humes endorsing CE 388? And when describing the head wound Humes says he measured this wound to be 15 x 6 mm which appears to correspond to the head wound size in the above autopsy photos, the elongation caused by the bullet tearing the scalp.

Commander HUMES - Turning now to Commission Exhibit 388, where we have depicted in the posterior right portion of the skull a wound which we have labeled "in" or a wound of entrance and a large roughly 13 cm. diameter defect in the right lateral vertex of the skull. I would go into some further detail in describing these wounds.
The scalp, I mentioned previously, there was a defect in the scalp and some scalp tissue was not available. However, the scalp was intact completely past this defect. In other words, this wound in the right posterior region was in a portion of scalp which had remained intact.
So, we could see that it was the measurement which I gave before, I believe 15 by 6 millimeters.
When one reflected the scalp away from the skull in this region, there was a corresponding defect through both tables of the skull in this area.

And because of where Humes originally stated where the back of head bullet entrance was and the bullet coming from high and behind, this led to the bonkers forward head lean of JFK in CE388. The WC and/or the Kennedy family should have allowed access to the original autopsy photos. But even then, they did have access to the Zapruder film frames which do not show this exaggerated forward head lean? Unfortunately this has given uninformed CT's a ton of cannon fodder over the years.
 
Mr. SPECTER - What conclusions did you reach then as to the trajectory or point of origin of the bullet, Dr. Humes, based on 388?
Commander HUMES - We reached the conclusion that this missile was fired toward the President from a point above and behind him, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - Now, on one detail on your report, Dr. Humes, on page 4, on the third line down, you note that there is a lacerated wound measuring 15 by 6 cm. which on the smaller size is, of course, less than 6.5 mm.?
Commander HUMES - Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - What would be the explanation for that variation?
Commander HUMES - This is in the scalp, sir, and I believe that this is explainable on the elastic recoil of the tissues of the skin, sir. It is not infrequent in missile wounds of this type that the measured wound is slightly smaller than the caliber of the missile that traversed it.








In the following graphic, I overlayed the ruler from the above autopsy photo with a ruler showing a 1cm measurement from another autopsy photo and used this 1cm measurement to confirm Humes 15 x 6 mm measurement.



Also, here's another photo showing a similar scalp tear from a bullet entrance wound.



JohnM

[Tim Nickerson]

So, Lance, do you think the 4 Clark Panel doctors were just lying through their collective teeth when they said the wound was 100mm above the EOP (via the quote I provided earlier)?

The 4 Clark Panel doctors were not lying through their collective teeth when they said the wound was 100mm above the EOP. They were simply wrong.

[John Mytton]

With everything we know based on the autopsy photos and the Zapruder film, I believe that these HSCA diagrams are the best representation of the head wound and the resulting expulsion of matter.





JohnM

[John R. Tonkovich]

Since holes in one's head do not , as a rule, move, perhaps one plus one equals two?

[Tim Nickerson]

With everything we know based on the autopsy photos and the Zapruder film, I believe that these HSCA diagrams are the best representation of the head wound and the resulting expulsion of matter.





JohnM

You are among a majority of LNs with that belief. I am not convinced. That the 3 autopsy pathologists would misplace the wound by 4 inches is extremely unlikely. Also, the fracture lines explanation offered by Peter Cummings is quite convincing.

I've timestamped it at 42:21, if it doesn't start there for you.

[John Mytton]

You are among a majority of LNs with that belief. I am not convinced. That the 3 autopsy pathologists would misplace the wound by 4 inches is extremely unlikely. Also, the fracture lines explanation offered by Peter Cummings is quite convincing.

I've timestamped it at 42:21, if it doesn't start there for you.

Thanks Tim that's food for thought, I've previously come across this explanation of the skull fracture and I took a screen grab of the radiating fracture lines for reference and I can't explain why the skull fractured in this way, perhaps there isn't enough information in the 2D X-ray? In the video, Stu.rdivan* also gives his opinion that upon impact the bullet broke up and yawed but in the ballistic tests I have seen, I haven't seen such a radical yaw in that limited amount of space but perhaps the bullet upon fragmenting changed direction upon entering the skull? 
* For some reason whenever this Forum sees the letters tu.rd like in Satu.rday it changes these letters to 'Person'?!



But at the end of the day I believe that the wound next to the ruler is the back of head entrance hole because upon close inspection and primarily, it's a hole which can be physically manipulated and secondly the dimensions match Humes original measurements.





On Speers web site he postulates that the bullet wound is this darkened splodge on the BOH autopsy photo but the dimensions don't appear to match Humes measurements and as opposed to the parting of the hair at the point of impact to provide a better look, Speers darkened splodge is not being highlighted in any way.



I just had a quick look at the ED Forum page and DVP quite humorously points out that there is other darkened splodges! The fact that none of these splodges have been highlighted in any way just shows a lot of wishful thinking.



In this similar scalp bullet hole, the entrance was shaved as to highlight the impact point because indicating the bullet hole is the number one reason for taking the autopsy photo!



So in conclusion I don't know why Humes thinks the wound was so low but iirc he did flip flop on it's position before finally going back to his original belief? Also Jerry Organ and along with his posts appears to have disappeared from this Forum(A real shame), believes that the skull hole was felt from within and mistakenly gave this result?

JohnM

[Tim Nickerson]

Thanks Tim that's food for thought, I've previously come across this explanation of the skull fracture and I took a screen grab of the radiating fracture lines for reference and I can't explain why the skull fractured in this way, perhaps there isn't enough information in the 2D X-ray? In the video, Stu.rdivan* also gives his opinion that upon impact the bullet broke up and yawed but in the ballistic tests I have seen, I haven't seen such a radical yaw in that limited amount of space but perhaps the bullet upon fragmenting changed direction upon entering the skull? 
* For some reason whenever this Forum sees the letters tu.rd like in Satu.rday it changes these letters to 'Person'?!

Stur.ivan's opinion is based largely on what he observed at Edgewood Arsenal.

Though all the Biophysics Lab test shots were aimed so that the WC’s specified entry and exit locations would lie on a straight trajectory, none of the bullets penetrated the front of the skull at the “intended” exit location. One even punched out through the right orbit (eye socket) near the nose. Nor were the researchers surprised by the fact that all those fragmented bullets exited from an obviously curved path. All were quite familiar with the trajectories of bullets and bullet fragments through tissue simulant.

Stur.ivan, Larry M.. JFK Myths: A Scientific Investigation of the Kennedy Assassination (p. 199). Paragon House. Kindle Edition.

But at the end of the day I believe that the wound next to the ruler is the back of head entrance hole because upon close inspection and primarily, it's a hole which can be physically manipulated and secondly the dimensions match Humes original measurements.





On Speer's web site he postulates that the bullet wound is this darkened splodge on the BOH autopsy photo but the dimensions don't appear to match Humes measurements and as opposed to the parting of the hair at the point of impact to provide a better look, Speers darkened splodge is not being highlighted in any way.



I just had a quick look at the ED Forum page and DVP quite humorously points out that there is other darkened splodges! The fact that none of these splodges have been highlighted in any way just shows a lot of wishful thinking.



In this similar scalp bullet hole, the entrance was shaved as to highlight the impact point because indicating the bullet hole is the number one reason for taking the autopsy photo!

Notice the difference between the fracture lines in the Dox drawing and those highlighted by Cummings in the autopsy photo.  Seems a bit suspect, does it not?

Pat Speer's candidate for the entry wound is below the EOP. As is the one circled by DVP.

So in conclusion I don't know why Humes thinks the wound was so low but iirc he did flip flop on it's position before finally going back to his original belief? Also Jerry Organ and along with his posts appears to have disappeared from this Forum(A real shame), believes that the skull hole was felt from within and mistakenly gave this result?

JohnM

I doubt that Jerry was right. Humes did briefly change his mind about the location of the wound but he was pressured to do so. He did not finish his HSCA testimony before reverting back to original finding.

I would encourage you to read Pat Speer's chapters on the X-Rays and head wounds. I don't agree with everything that he says in them but they are well worth reading.

[John Mytton]

Stur.ivan's opinion is based largely on what he observed at Edgewood Arsenal.

Though all the Biophysics Lab test shots were aimed so that the WC’s specified entry and exit locations would lie on a straight trajectory, none of the bullets penetrated the front of the skull at the “intended” exit location. One even punched out through the right orbit (eye socket) near the nose. Nor were the researchers surprised by the fact that all those fragmented bullets exited from an obviously curved path. All were quite familiar with the trajectories of bullets and bullet fragments through tissue simulant.

Stur.ivan, Larry M.. JFK Myths: A Scientific Investigation of the Kennedy Assassination (p. 199). Paragon House. Kindle Edition.

Notice the difference between the fracture lines in the Dox drawing and those highlighted by Cummings in the autopsy photo.  Seems a bit suspect, does it not?

Pat Speer's candidate for the entry wound is below the EOP. As is the one circled by DVP.

I doubt that Jerry was right. Humes did briefly change his mind about the location of the wound but he was pressured to do so. He did not finish his HSCA testimony before reverting back to original finding.

I would encourage you to read Pat Speer's chapters on the X-Rays and head wounds. I don't agree with everything that he says in them but they are well worth reading.

One more thought is these top of head autopsy photos, if the bullet fragments came up from the bottom right then I'd expect the right side brain to be more eviscerated but I can see the left side almost intact and what appears to be an open horizontal tract which would be consistent with a bullet entering at the higher cowlick position.



This sketch of JFK's brain is very close to what we can see in the above autopsy photos.



JohnM