Why did Oswald go to the movies?

[Martin Weidmann]

Frazier was not threatened with physical violence by Fritz or anyone else.  While on the polygraph machine, Frazier stated that the paper bag shown to him was possibly the same one that Oswald had with him. The problem was that Frazier had simply not paid enough attention to the bag that morning to be able to say definitively that it was or was not the same bag.

While on the polygraph machine, Frazier stated that the paper bag shown to him was possibly the same one that Oswald had with him.

This is at best a massive misrepresentation of the truth.

At 11.30 pm on 11/22/63 Frazier was being polygraphed by DPD detective R.D. Lewis. During this session, Frazier was shown the paper bag that had been found at the TSBD, which at that time (except for the fact that it had been dusted in vain for prints at the TSBD) was still in its original state. Frazier could not identify the bag as the one he had seen Oswald carry, some 16 / 17 hours earlier and the polygraph did not register an anomaly.

According to a report by FBI agent Vincent Drain, dated December 1, 1963, the polygrapher R.D. Lewis stated that Frazier had told him that the ?crickly brown paper sack? Oswald had carried did not resemble the ?home made heavy paper gun case? the DPD officers had shown him. Drain added that Lewis referred to the bag as ?paper gun case? because ?the DPD is of the opinion the brown heavy paper was used by Oswald to carry the rifle into the building?.

A memo from FBI agent James Anderton to SAC Dallas, dated 11/29/63, reveals the desperation of Lt. Day after Frazier failed to identify the heavy bag found at the TSBD. Anderton writes that, according to Lt Day, Frazier described the bag Oswald had carried as "definitely a thin, flimsy sack like the one purchased in a dime store". The memo then goes on to say;

"Lt. Day states that he and other officers have surmised that Oswald, by dismantling the rifle, could have placed it in the thick brown sack folder over, and then placed the entire package in the flimsy paper sack"

The obvious question is why Day was so desperate to explain the discrepancy between the heavy bag allegedly found on the 6th floor of the TSBD and the flimsy bag Frazier had seen that he would come up with this silly theory. Even more so, if Oswald's prints had really been found on the heavy bag and the MC rifle ......

So, what else did Frazier say or do in those early days? Well, for one thing he corrected and initialed his own affidavit. Where it used the word ?bag? he crossed it out and replaced it with ?sack?. For some reason that distinction was important to him.

And then of course there was the Odum and McNeely report of December 2, 1963. They quote Frazier as saying that ?the package was wrapped in a cheap, crinkly, thin paper sack, such as that provided by Five and Ten Cent Stores?

So we have at least two occasions shortly after the event where Frazier qualifies the paper bag as "definitely a thin, flimsy sack like the one purchased in a dime store" and ?a cheap, crinkly, thin paper sack, such as that provided by Five and Ten Cent Stores?.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,72.0.html

[Richard Smith]

The best evidence of the bag's size will always be the bag itself since it was found and can be measured.  There is no reason to rely on someone's estimate.  And go to endless absurd pedantic lengths in an attempt to ignore that the bag exists.  It is classic CTer nonsense to nitpick every word of testimony and suggest everyone was in on the frame up while ignoring the elephant in the room.  Frazier may honestly but erroneously believe the bag found was not the one he saw Oswald carry.  He is mistaken.  The bag was found.  It has Oswald's prints on it.  It's location suggests a connection to the assassination.  There is no work related explanation for it to have been there.  No one in 50 plus years who worked in the building ever provided any explanation for such a bag to have been there or indicated it belonged to them.  No bag matching Frazier's estimate was ever found.  Oswald himself denied carrying a bag as described by Frazier.  The bag found on the 6th floor was used by Oswald to carry the rifle that morning.  That is what happened and how it will be recorded in history. 

[Martin Weidmann]

The best evidence of the bag's size will always be the bag itself since it was found and can be measured.  There is no reason to rely on someone's estimate.  And go to endless absurd pedantic lengths in an attempt to ignore that the bag exists.  It is classic CTer nonsense to nitpick every word of testimony and suggest everyone was in on the frame up while ignoring the elephant in the room.  Frazier may honestly but erroneously believe the bag found was not the one he saw Oswald carry.  He is mistaken.  The bag was found.  It has Oswald's prints on it.  It's location suggests a connection to the assassination.  There is no work related explanation for it to have been there.  No one in 50 plus years who worked in the building ever provided any explanation for such a bag to have been there or indicated it belonged to them.  No bag matching Frazier's estimate was ever found.  Oswald himself denied carrying a bag as described by Frazier.  The bag found on the 6th floor was used by Oswald to carry the rifle that morning.  That is what happened and how it will be recorded in history.

Oh boy... here we go again.

Sorry Richard, I have no interest whatsoever to reply to the same crappy arguments again. Anybody who wants to read this very same discussion can click the link in my previous post. There all your misrepresentations, outright lies and strawman arguments have already been destroyed...

Not that you will ever accept or admit that, but who cares?

[Gary Craig]

[Walt Cakebread]

He picked Oswald out of a line-up as having been a passenger on his bus. You're saying that what he said during the lineup and his signed affidavit should be disregarded in favor of what he said during his WC testimony?

You're saying that what he said during the lineup and his signed affidavit should be disregarded in favor of what he said during his WC testimony?

This illustrates the crux of the problem.....   The Warren Commission was nothing but a cover up committee that was created by LBJ to gather the incriminating evidence and destroy it.

The egotistical suckers who were suckered into accepting the WC ( commonly referred to as LNers)  as a legitimate investigation always point to the warped testimony created by the WC as the final word on any aspect of the case.

Many times the testimony of a witness is in direct conflict with what that witness reported on the day of the murder....

Case in point:....  Howard Brennan clearly stated the the man he saw aiming a rifle from a sixth floor window was wearing light colored khaki clothing.   Lee Oswald never even owned any light colored khaki clothing ...and he most certainly was not attired in light colored khaki clothing at the time that JFK was murdered.

Egotistical suckers like Tim will make complete asses of themselves by accepting the testimony that was created by LBJ's commission as the gospel ..... Just as Tim did here.....

You're saying that what he said during the lineup and his signed affidavit should be disregarded in favor of what he said during his WC testimony?

[Walt Cakebread]

Tony, I hope you're not questioning Day's integrity; that might upset Tim...

There's no question about Detective J.C. Day's integrity.....   He had none.

[Tim Nickerson]

maybe you need to take up a different hobby

You too if you believe you can determine a bullet entry point at specifically C6 to the exclusion of any other vertebrae.

I've never determined the bullet entry point to be  specifically at C6 to the exclusion of any other vertebrae. You really ought to move to a cooler climate area Tony.

[Tim Nickerson]

While on the polygraph machine, Frazier stated that the paper bag shown to him was possibly the same one that Oswald had with him.

This is at best a massive misrepresentation of the truth.

Are you claiming that Lewis never told Drain that Frazier said that it was possible that the bag shown to him was the case he had seen Oswald carrying?