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Author Topic: Buell Wesley Frazier  (Read 159130 times)

Online Michael Capasse

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #352 on: February 21, 2025, 05:49:43 PM »
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All I am saying is there are other possibilities. Anyone who thinks that LHO had to have taken the rifle apart just hasn’t thought about the other possibilities. I am not saying that I know exactly how he did these things. I am only pointing out some other possibilities.

You are assuming his guilt in order to imagine these possibilities.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #352 on: February 21, 2025, 05:49:43 PM »


Online Michael Capasse

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #353 on: February 21, 2025, 05:50:36 PM »
Proof comes from corroboration of conclusive evidence. The rifle on the floor is not proof that he brought it in.
No matter how much the nutters would like that to be true, it is only proof of a rifle on the floor. By itself, that's it.
There are only about 4-6 things that can be conclusive evidence of the bag belonging to Oswald. Yet, no two corroborate.

Forget about proof
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE, Lee went anywhere near the shipping room for paper or tape.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE, he took a break from his work to make the bag.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE, he carried the bag home on his person Thursday afternoon.

Witness observations
Frazier saw a package carried in, from the palm of his hand to his armpit. Unless Lee was carrying in the smallest
portion of the rifle (trigger housing) he otherwise was NOT carrying the gun. This cannot be assumed.

His sister Linne Mae described a package, that was not consistent with what was found, and was not carried in a
manner that would support the 8 pounds of rifle, as well has having left no fingerprints by the way he carried it.

Both witnesses were retained at FBI and told to make the bag they saw. Frazier said he and Linne spent 2 1/2 hours
making bags for the FBI - All were rejected. Why? Too small.

Other witnesses are the cops that were supposed to have found the bag. The first 11 officers never saw it.
And the first four told the Commission there was no bag when they arrive 20 MINUTES after the shooting.
The only known picture of the bag are dotted lines near a box in the snipers nest.

Evidence appears to conclude, what Frazier and Linne Mae saw, was not the same bag allegedly found upstairs.

Fingerprints on the bag
Prints on the bag are garbage. The pictures Mytton keeps trolling out don't mean anything if you can't see the print.
A mosh of indistinguishable marks on a gray or black background having been left for the record, can only be intentional.

One officer said, they are a portion of the right hand palm, and the left hand index finger. They are not together.
The other officer (Studebaker) said they were nothing more than a smudge. Cherry picking is not conclusive evidence.
The bag didn't go to Washington that weekend, and was probably brought into interrogations and Lee touched it.
Prints are scant. Push something away from you on a table, what portion of your right hand did you use?

If he made the bag he could have had work gloves, cardboard all day can dry out your hands. But there were no gloves when
he carried the bag that morning. Where are all the prints from all the handling of the bag until he allegedly discarded it in the nest?

Markings on the bag
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, was there an absence of markings which would be inconsistent with the rifle having been carried in the bag?
 
Mr. CADIGAN. (FBI) "No; I don't see actually, I don't know the condition of the rifle. If it were in fact contained in this bag,
it could have been wrapped in cloth or just the metal parts wrapped in a thick layer of cloth, or if the gun was in the bag,
perhaps it wasn't moved too much. I did observe some scratch marks and abrasions but was unable to associate them with this gun.
The scratch marks in the paper could come from any place. They could have come from many places. There were no marks on this bag that
I could say were caused by that rifle or any other rifle or any other given instrument."

Not only that a well oiled rifle with exposed oil parts would leave a residue in the bag that would not evaporate or dissipate.

Fibers in the bag
Although fibers were found in the mouth of the bag they were possible but not consistent as a match with fibers on the blanket.
An officer is seen with his hand and and suit jacket up into the bag as he shows it to photographers. A picture of the bag in evidence
shows the mouth unfolded down against the blanket. Therefore, any fibers are not conclusive evidence that the rifle was ever in the container.

Building the rifle
At some point on Friday morning, Lee is supposed to have taken a break to assemble the rifle. There was no tool left and no evidence of
any instrument having been packed to do this. The Commission had a witness do it with a dime, but I don't believe he hit all the screws
One in particular, right at the trigger would be extremely difficult if not impossible. Anybody would bring the screwdriver knowing he'd have
to re assemble the gun. Regardless, there is NO EVIDENCE of any tool that was used. 

There is no reason to believe that rife was ever broken down and put into that bag. What else is there?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 05:43:33 AM by Michael Capasse »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #354 on: February 21, 2025, 06:19:20 PM »
Placing a small brown lunch bag over the exposed end of the barrel seems to me to be a very easy solution. The little brown lunch bag would not look out of place if left most anywhere in the TSBD. This would be much easier to do than taking the rifle apart and re-assembling it. Just a possibility that comes to mind.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #354 on: February 21, 2025, 06:19:20 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #355 on: February 21, 2025, 06:19:33 PM »

Yes really. These are only my opinions on possibilities. You are not required to agree.

Set the package on the back seat so that the end of the barrel is  away from Frazier and towards the seat back and not obvious from Frazier’s point of view. Then hurry in to the TSBD with it (well ahead of Frazier) with the end of the barrel in front of him so that Frazier cannot see the end of the barrel. Or perhaps he had something else to cover that small section. It really doesn’t matter how he did it. Taking the gun apart is one possibility, I am just not convinced that he actually did that. That’s all. You are free to disagree.

You are being taken down the contrarian rabbit hole by our resident CTers.  The bag exists.  It has Oswald's prints on it.  It was left next to the SN (where Oswald also left his prints).  It had no apparent work-related purpose for being there.  No other employee in the TSBD ever indicated that the bag belonged to them or otherwise explained its presence.  Oswald carried a long bag that morning that no one ever accounted for in any way other than the bag left on the 6th floor.  Based on those facts, no one has to confirm beyond all doubt how and when Oswald constructed the bag to conclude that the bag found on the 6th floor was the same one he carried that morning and that it contained his rifle.   
« Last Edit: February 21, 2025, 06:20:18 PM by Richard Smith »

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #356 on: February 21, 2025, 06:20:40 PM »
Proof comes from corroboration of conclusive evidence. The rifle on the floor is not proof that he brought it in.
No matter how much the nutters would like that to be true, it is only proof of a rifle on the floor. By itself, that's it.
There are only about 4-6 things that can be conclusive evidence of the bag belonging to Oswald. Yet, no two corroborate.

Forget about proof
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE, Lee went anywhere near the shipping room for paper or tape.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE, he took a break from his work to make the bag.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE, he carried the bag home on his person Thursday afternoon.

Witness observations
Frazier saw a package carried in, from the palm of his hand to his armpit. Unless Lee was carrying in the smallest
portion of the rifle (trigger housing) he otherwise was NOT carrying the gun. This cannot be assumed.

His sister Linne Mae described a package, that was not consistent with what was found, and was not carried in a
manner that would support the 8 pounds of rifle, as well has having left no fingerprints by the way he carried it.

Both witnesses were retained at FBI and told to make the bag they saw. Frazier said he and Linne spent 2 1/2 hours
making bags for the FBI - All were rejected. Why? Too small.

Other witnesses are the cops that were supposed to have found the bag. The first 11 officers never saw it.
And the first four told the Commission there was no bag when they arrive 20 MINUTES after the shooting.
The only known picture of the bag are dotted lines near a box in the snipers nest.

Evidence appears to conclude, what Frazier and Linne Mae saw, was not the same bag allegedly found upstairs.

Fingerprints on the bag
Prints on the bag are garbage. The pictures Mytton keeps trolling out don't mean anything if you can't see the print.
A mosh of indistinguishable marks on a gray or black background having been left for the record, can only be intentional.

One officer said, they are two portions of the right hand a partial palm and thumb. They are not together. The other
officer (Studebaker) said they were nothing more than a smudge. Cherry picking is not conclusive evidence.
The bag didn't go to Washington that weekend, and was probably brought into interrogations and Lee touched it.
Prints are scant. Push something away from you on a table, what portion of your right hand did you use?

If he made the bag he could have had work gloves, cardboard all day can dry out your hands. But there were no gloves when
he carried the bag that morning. Where are all the prints from all the handling of the bag until he allegedly discarded it in the nest?

Markings on the bag
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, was there an absence of markings which would be inconsistent with the rifle having been carried in the bag?
 
Mr. CADIGAN. (FBI) "No; I don't see actually, I don't know the condition of the rifle. If it were in fact contained in this bag,
it could have been wrapped in cloth or just the metal parts wrapped in a thick layer of cloth, or if the gun was in the bag,
perhaps it wasn't moved too much. I did observe some scratch marks and abrasions but was unable to associate them with this gun.
The scratch marks in the paper could come from any place. They could have come from many places. There were no marks on this bag that
I could say were caused by that rifle or any other rifle or any other given instrument."

Not only that a well oiled rifle with exposed oil parts would leave a residue in the bag that would not evaporate or dissipate.

Fibers in the bag
Although fibers were found in the mouth of the bag they were possible but not consistent as a match with fibers on the blanket.
An officer is seen with his hand and and suit jacket up into the bag as he shows it to photographers. A picture of the bag in evidence
shows the mouth unfolded down against the blanket. Therefore, any fibers are not conclusive evidence that the rifle was ever in the container.

Building the rifle
At some point on Friday morning, Lee is supposed to have taken a break to assemble the rifle. There was no tool left and no evidence of
any instrument having been packed to do this. The Commission had a witness do it with a dime, but I don't believe he hit all the screws
One in particular, right at the trigger would be extremely difficult if not impossible. Anybody would bring the screwdriver knowing he'd have
to re assemble the gun. Regardless, there is NO EVIDENCE of any tool that was used. 

There is no reason to believe that rife was ever broken down and put into that bag. What else is there?

The prints match with Linnie May’s description of how LHO carried the bag, and the rifle did not have to be broken down to be carried in the bag without being seen.   

 

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #356 on: February 21, 2025, 06:20:40 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #357 on: February 21, 2025, 06:23:31 PM »

All I am saying is there are other possibilities. Anyone who thinks that LHO had to have taken the rifle apart just hasn’t thought about the other possibilities. I am not saying that I know exactly how he did these things. I am only pointing out some other possibilities.

Yeah, that was obvious. Let me give you another possibility.

Oswald went to Irving on Thursday to make up with his wife and there was no rifle in Ruth Paine's garage.

That's all I need to eliminate all your assumptions

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #358 on: February 21, 2025, 06:26:14 PM »
You are being taken down the contrarian rabbit hole by our resident CTers.  The bag exists.  It has Oswald's prints on it.  It was left next to the SN (where Oswald also left his prints).  It had no apparent work-related purpose for being there.  No other employee in the TSBD ever indicated that the bag belonged to them or otherwise explained its presence.  Oswald carried a long bag that morning that no one ever accounted for in any way other than the bag left on the 6th floor.  Based on those facts, no one has to confirm beyond all doubt how and when Oswald constructed the bag to conclude that the bag found on the 6th floor was the same one he carried that morning and that it contained his rifle.


I agree with everything you said. Reasonable inferences from the totality of the evidence tell us what happened. Discussing the possibilities for all the little details (that will never be known with any certainty) is about all there is left.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #359 on: February 21, 2025, 06:27:33 PM »
Yeah, that was obvious. Let me give you another possibility.

Oswald went to Irving on Thursday to make up with his wife and there was no rifle in Ruth Paine's garage.

That's all I need to eliminate all your assumptions


Isn’t it nice that you can make up your own story?

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #359 on: February 21, 2025, 06:27:33 PM »