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Richard Smith

Author Topic: Buell Wesley Frazier  (Read 172652 times)

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #576 on: March 09, 2025, 03:28:36 PM »
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Try this.  If the evidence places Oswald at the Tippit murder scene, do you agree that is conclusive of whether he had the time to get there?  And as a result, we don't need to prove his every movement with a stopwatch to accept that conclusion.  I'm not asking you for an endless pedantic subjective rant on whether the evidence places him there.  I realize that some CTers may not agree that it did because they apply an impossible standard of proof, but hypothetically IF the evidence places him at the scene don't you agree that moots all the discussion about timelines and routes that would have got him there at that moment?  I don't think that is a very complex concept to understand even for you.

If the evidence places Oswald at the Tippit murder scene, do you agree that is conclusive of whether he had the time to get there?

Yes

And as a result, we don't need to prove his every movement with a stopwatch to accept that conclusion.

Agreed

IF the evidence places him at the scene don't you agree that moots all the discussion about timelines and routes that would have got him there at that moment?

Agreed

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #576 on: March 09, 2025, 03:28:36 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #577 on: March 09, 2025, 04:26:42 PM »
If the evidence places Oswald at the Tippit murder scene, do you agree that is conclusive of whether he had the time to get there?

Yes

And as a result, we don't need to prove his every movement with a stopwatch to accept that conclusion.

Agreed

IF the evidence places him at the scene don't you agree that moots all the discussion about timelines and routes that would have got him there at that moment?

Agreed

Wasn't the subject matter; Oswald being on the 6th floor and getting down the stairs within 75 seconds after the shots?

So, why is "Richard" now talking about Tippit?   :D

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #578 on: March 09, 2025, 04:33:00 PM »
Wasn't the subject matter; Oswald being on the 6th floor and getting down the stairs within 75 seconds after the shots?

So, why is "Richard" now talking about Tippit?   :D

I think TD's Patented Logic - If it DID happen, that proves it DID happen - can be applied to all scenarios regarding the JFK case.  ::)

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #578 on: March 09, 2025, 04:33:00 PM »


Offline Tom Sorensen

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #579 on: March 09, 2025, 05:48:25 PM »
Wasn't the subject matter; Oswald being on the 6th floor and getting down the stairs within 75 seconds after the shots?

So, why is "Richard" now talking about Tippit?   :D

Likely because he held a similar lecture in the Tippit thread last year.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4116.msg158279.html#msg158279

Offline Tom Sorensen

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #580 on: March 09, 2025, 06:47:08 PM »
Try this.  If the evidence places Oswald at the Tippit murder scene, do you agree that is conclusive of whether he had the time to get there?  And as a result, we don't need to prove his every movement with a stopwatch to accept that conclusion.  I'm not asking you for an endless pedantic subjective rant on whether the evidence places him there.  I realize that some CTers may not agree that it did because they apply an impossible standard of proof, but hypothetically IF the evidence places him at the scene don't you agree that moots all the discussion about timelines and routes that would have got him there at that moment?  I don't think that is a very complex concept to understand even for you.

The WC definitely didn't get it because they came up with a nutty bus ride going nowhere and Whaley the cab driver; neither were needed according to your principle. Is "an impossible standard of proof" explained in part two of your lecture?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2025, 06:53:38 PM by Tom Sorensen »

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #580 on: March 09, 2025, 06:47:08 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #581 on: March 09, 2025, 06:59:16 PM »
Likely because he held a similar lecture in the Tippit thread last year.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4116.msg158279.html#msg158279

He tried to do the same in a conversation I had with him about Oswald being on the 6th floor when the shots were fired and coming down the stairs within 75 seconds after the last shot.

He couldn't prove that Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 PM or that he came down the stairs, so he started to use circular logic.

1. Oswald was seen on the second floor door by Baker within 75 to 90 seconds after the shots, which somehow "proves" that he must have come down the stairs

2. Oswald came down the stairs which "proves" that he must have been on the 6th floor.

It's laughable, but what is worse is that he actually believes his reasoning is logical.

You'll get a better conversation out of a brick wall.

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #582 on: March 09, 2025, 11:14:10 PM »
The WC definitely didn't get it because they came up with a nutty bus ride going nowhere and Whaley the cab driver; neither were needed according to your principle. Is "an impossible standard of proof" explained in part two of your lecture?

I'm not sure exactly what you are claiming here.  That someone conjured up a fake bus ride for Oswald that took him nowhere and is entirely pointless in the context of a conspiracy narrative?  Why would anyone make that up as part of a plan?  Are you familiar with "Chekhov's gun"?  At the risk of exciting the other Tom with a Russia reference, it's a principle that if a writer references a gun in a story, there must be a reason for it, such as it being fired sometime later in the plot.  It would be pointless and stupid for your fantasy conspirators to put Oswald on a bus if that doesn't move the plot.  Pointless events like getting on a bus that gets stuck in traffic and then getting off to get into a cab are things that happen in real life.  Not a narrative.


« Last Edit: March 09, 2025, 11:27:18 PM by Richard Smith »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #583 on: March 09, 2025, 11:26:36 PM »
Likely because he held a similar lecture in the Tippit thread last year.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4116.msg158279.html#msg158279

So much learning going on today.  Remarkable progress.  The thing speaks for itself.  If the evidence is deemed conclusive that Oswald was on the 6th floor at 12:30 as the evidence, history books, and law enforcement indicate and that he was on the 2nd floor a couple of minutes later, then that is conclusive that he moved from the 6th to 2nd floor unnoticed in that timeframe.  The evidence supports both conclusions even if his exact movements can't be recreated with certainty or even deemed improbable by those who apply an impossible standard of proof to the topic. 

All the subjective nitpicking of witness testimony and pedantic attempts to analyze events down to the second are not necessary to reach this conclusion.  The inability to do so creates no doubt of the fact.
How can be unknowable, even contrary to some interpretations, and still raise no doubt that it could be done because the evidence confirms that it was done.  It is not necessary for me or anyone to prove how it was done to the satisfaction of anyone else. Once a thing has occurred, the odds against it occurring are no longer relevant in determining whether it did in fact occur.  Even if the odds were a billion to one against it happening, and there is nothing like that in this context.  This is called discovering the simplicity that lies on the far side of complexity (i.e. not going down the rabbit hole).  Res ipsa loquitur.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier
« Reply #583 on: March 09, 2025, 11:26:36 PM »