Buell Wesley Frazier

[John Mytton]

Too bad that Baker saw Oswald leaving the hallway and therefore was entering the 2nd floor lunchroom. Oops!

Yeah, I know what Baker said, but having been in the TSBD I am 100% sure that there is no way that Baker could have seen Oswald in the way he described it.

What a ludicrous self serving assumption and besides your usual song and dance of having Law enforcement conveniently lie when you've been proven wrong, there is so much misinformation with what you just said;

 • From the stairs you have a clear view of the Vestibule window, you know a clear glass window which is designed to be seen through.
 • Baker as he raced up the stairs wasn't making a search of the entire building, he noticed something out of the ordinary and investigated. Baker's priority was to reach the top of the building and the only reason he happened to see Oswald was because the elevator was stuck on an upper floor.
 • Truly who came in behind Baker said Oswald was standing just beyond the entrance of the lunchroom.

Mr. BELIN - What did you see that caused you to turn away from going up to the third floor?
Mr. BAKER - As I came out of that stairway running, Mr. Truly had already gone on around, see, and I don't know, as I come around----
Mr. DULLES - Gone on around and up?
Mr. BAKER - He had already started around the bend to come to the next elevation going up, I was coming out this one on the second floor, and I don't know, I was kind of sweeping this area as I come up, I was looking from right to left and as I got to this door here I caught a glimpse of this man, just, you know, a sudden glimpse, that is all it was now, and it looked to me like he was going away from me.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER - I ran on up here and opened this door and when I got this door opened I could see him walking on down.
Mr. DULLES - Had he meanwhile gone on through the door ahead of you?
Mr. BAKER - I can't say whether he had gone on through that door or not. All I did was catch a glance at him, and evidently he was--this door might have been, you know, closing and almost shut at that time.

The view from the stairs, looking right through the vestibule door window into the hallway and the entrance to the lunchroom which is cannot be seen, is to the left



A plan of the 2nd floor with Baker's initial position when he saw Oswald, indicated by the "B" enclosed with the red box.

Mr. BAKER - At the upper portion of this stairway leading to the second floor, I was just stepping out on to the second floor when I caught this glimpse of this man through this doorway.
Mr. BELIN - Do you want to put a spot there, with the letter "B" at the point you believe you were when you were looking through that door? You put the letter "B" on Exhibit 497 when you first saw the movement.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.



Truly saw Oswald standing just inside the lunchroom.

Mr. BELIN. And where was Lee Harvey Oswald at the time you saw him?
Mr. TRULY. He was at the front of the lunchroom, not very far inside he was just inside the lunchroom door.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. TRULY. 2 or 3 feet, possibly.
Mr. BELIN. Could you put an "O" where you saw Lee Harvey Oswald?
All right. You have put an "O" on Exhibit 497.



Howlett showing the vestibule door closing(viewed from a different angled) which may have alerted Baker.



BTW since you've been there, tell the Forum precisely how "there is no way that Baker could have seen Oswald in the way he described it."??

JohnM

[Tim Nickerson]

Brennan's first day description of Oswald was very close and considering that the majority of the people at the TSBD windows were either black or women then Brennan most certainly saw Oswald, you know the guy who left his prints covering the Sniper's nest and the guy who owned the rifle on the very same floor.

JohnM

 Brennan testified under oath that he saw Oswald firing a rifle from the sniper's nest that Oswald had left his prints in, that's true. I do believe him. That being said, I avoid using him in the case against Oswald. CTs love to bash him, as they do others who implicate Oswald's guilt in murder.

[John Mytton]

Brennan testified under oath that he saw Oswald firing a rifle from the sniper's nest that Oswald had left his prints in, that's true. I do believe him. That being said, I avoid using him in the case against Oswald. CTs love to bash him, as they do others who implicate Oswald's guilt in murder.

You're right, the CT's in their last desperate gasps are now left attacking any eyewitness who implicates Oswald.

But before anything was officially known, Brennan's first day description of Oswald, was broadcast on the Police radio within 15 minutes is worth repeating because the CT's have no answers, they say that Brennan's description can be half the population of Dallas which is just absurd because first of all half the population is women and then when it's further dissected we have slim, around 5 foot 10 height which crosses out another stack of the population and next we have an appearance of about 30 which Oswald with his thinning scalp is about right and finally we have him as being white.
So after eliminating a wide cross section of the male population of Dallas we are left with a relative handful of people and then out of the employees in the Depository this is reduced to a mere fraction.
So by logical deduction we are left with a tiny fraction of people and considering that Oswald owned the rifle and owned the relative fresh prints in the exact window that Brennan specified, we can pinpoint who did the shooting!
Now if Brennan's description was elderly, black, fat, very tall and completely bald then we can write off Oswald, but it wasn't.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

I asked you for examples of fungible items of evidence and for you to describe how were they mishandled by the DPD?

The only item you named was the blanket, and you never described how it was mishandled by the DPD.

If they never handled it, how could they have marked it?

The officer who reported that it was white never handled the jacket. He saw it at a distance. it appeared to be white.

I asked you for examples of fungible items of evidence and for you to describe how were they mishandled by the DPD?

Your "non-fungible" qualification is just a disingenuous way to limit the scope of the evidence. I ignored it because evidence is evidence, period!

The only item you named was the blanket, and you never described how it was mishandled by the DPD.

I already told you. They placed the blanket next to the paper bag risking cross contamination,

If they never handled it, how could they have marked it?

That is indeed a very good question. There is no "if". You can go through all the evidence and testimony relating to the jacket and you won't find anything else but Captain Westbrook confirming he placed his mark on the jacket and saying that one unidentified officer pointed the jacket out to him and he gave the jacket to another unidentified officer when he himself moved on to the Texas Theater. The receipt of the evidence room shows that Westbrook handed the jacket in, which means he must have gotten it back at some point in time. Who the other six officers are who marked the jacket is a complete mystery. All that can be said about one of them is that he also marked the revolver.

The officer who reported that it was white never handled the jacket. He saw it at a distance. it appeared to be white.

Can you point me to that officer's testimony or report in which he confirms this?

[Dan O'meara]

Brennan's first day description of Oswald was very close and considering that the majority of the people at the TSBD windows were either black or women then Brennan most certainly saw Oswald, you know the guy who left his prints covering the Sniper's nest and the guy who owned the rifle on the very same floor.

JohnM

Brennan's first day description of Oswald was very close

This is Brennan's first day description of the man he saw:

"He was a white man in his early 30s, slender, nice-looking, and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds"

He was white (that sounds like Oswald)
He was a man (two for two, this really could be Oswald)
In his early 30s (D'oh. Only about tens years off! When he actually saw Oswald he was struck by how much older the guy in the TSBD building appeared to be)
Slender (we're back on track, Oswald was definitely slender)
Nice looking (nice looking?? Oswald?? I don't think there's going to be many takers for that one)
About 165 to 175 pounds (Hmmm...not really. Even the lower estimate is a good 15 pounds off)

Three out of six ain't bad but is there a universe where this description can be considered a "very close" description of Oswald?
No.
No, there isn't.

You can tell when Nutters are backed into a corner when they pull Brennan out of the hat.
Far from being the star of the show he turned out to be the most unreliable and least credible witness out of the lot (and that was up against some stiff competition).
He was the only witness to be called back to give clarifying testimony TWICE in the same day and he still had to give a further affidavit providing further clarification.
This article about Brennan is worth reading - https://jfkconspiracyforum.freeforums.net/thread/1619/howard-brennan-star-witness-who

"...considering that the majority of the people at the TSBD windows were either black or women then Brennan most certainly saw Oswald.."

This statement must surely find a seat at the top table of bizarre Nutter "logic"

[Michael Capasse]

There are a lot of problems with Brennan.

First - He FAILED to identify Lee at the line ups. It doesn't matter what reason he gave later. He failed to identify him.
https://jfk.boards.net/post/3579

He gave several different reason to not choose Oswald. He said he had seen the man on TV and that might have
"..cloud[ed] any identification.." in his book, he didn't trust the Dallas Police.   

"I felt even more angry and betrayed. I hadn’t agreed to make an identification to the local authorities.
I knew that there were ways my identity could become known though the leaks in the police department and I didn’t want any part of it."

Meanwhile, his face was already on the local television the day of, with pictures of him talking to the Secret Service.
Brennan boasted about the expedited broadcast to attorney Belin during his Commission testimony, asking if he had seen it.
His name, age, and occupation, also appeared in the Dallas Morning News as a statement to the press the day after.

The FBI took several statements from Brennan from Nov 22, until the day he testified.
Other visits were required when Howard "appeared to revert to his earlier inability" to identify Lee Oswald.
These recorded statements raise doubts, in addition to other direct contradictions in his testimony.

The most important discrepancy I can see is, what he said at the end of testimony.
They were quick to dismiss him right after he said it:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember the specific color of any shirt
that the man with the rifle was wearing?

Mr. BRENNAN. No, other than light, and a khaki color--maybe in khaki.
I mean other than light color--not a real white shirt, in other words.
If it was a white shirt, it was on the dingy side.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Could you see the man's trousers at all?
Do you remember any color?

Mr. BRENNAN. I remembered them at that time as being similar to the same color
of the shirt or a little lighter. And that was another thing that I called their attention to at the lineup.

Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by that?
Mr. BRENNAN. That he was not dressed in the same clothes that I saw the man in the window.

Mr. BELIN. You mean with reference to the trousers or the shirt?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, not particularly either. In other words, he just didn't have the same clothes on.

Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. BRENNAN. I don't know whether you have that in the record or not. I am sure you do.

Mr. DULLES. Any further questions? I guess there are no more questions, Mr. Belin.

https://jfk.boards.net/post/3587/thread

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The films of the 6th floor as the car makes the turn show no face or flesh tone in that window - it is covered in boxes and what looks like a pipe
coming out of the window.  The WC had six witnesses that saw a rifle but, up until Brennan, none would say they saw Oswald.

But the HSCA found a witness that had seen someone in that room moving boxes 2-5 mins after the shooting.
Lt Day had concerns on the witness stand that the boxes were not the same configuration he saw when he was there

https://jfk.boards.net/post/7564

Meanwhile, Carolyn Walther, Richard Carr and Johnny Powell all saw more than one person in the window before the president arrived.
All three saw a combination of light colored clothing - Spanish looking people  - a rifle  - and a man in a brown suit. All were ignored by the WC.
There again, Commission witnesses, Arnold Rowland & Amos Euins also saw light colored clothing and what they thought were  "colored" people in the window.
IMO, when they had no one to identify Lee, it came down to; "Mr Brennan, we know who you saw, we have his rifle. Will you testify?" Not very difficult.

https://jfk.boards.net/post/7692/thread
.

[Richard Smith]

Brennan's first day description of Oswald was very close

This is Brennan's first day description of the man he saw:

"He was a white man in his early 30s, slender, nice-looking, and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds"

He was white (that sounds like Oswald)
He was a man (two for two, this really could be Oswald)
In his early 30s (D'oh. Only about tens years off! When he actually saw Oswald he was struck by how much older the guy in the TSBD building appeared to be)
Slender (we're back on track, Oswald was definitely slender)
Nice looking (nice looking?? Oswald?? I don't think there's going to be many takers for that one)
About 165 to 175 pounds (Hmmm...not really. Even the lower estimate is a good 15 pounds off)

Three out of six ain't bad but is there a universe where this description can be considered a "very close" description of Oswald?
No.
No, there isn't.

That's quite a standard to apply under the circumstances.  Of course, "nice looking" is a subjective description.  It could just mean he was dressed neatly.  Not necessarily that he looked like a movie star. Oswald was balding and certainly looked older than 24.  In his 30s is not a bad estimate of his age given that he was seen from the ground through a 6th floor window.  Weight is an estimate.  Overall, pretty close to Oswald and reported in the minutes following the assassination.  At the very least, Brennan confirms that a slender, white male was the person firing shots from the 6th floor window.  That alone debunks many CT theories that involve no shots being fired from that window.  And whose prints are found on the boxes behind that window?  Whose rifle is found on that floor?  Whose shell casing are found by the window?  All the evidence points to a slender white male named LHO.  It's difficult to even understand how there could be much more evidence than exists to support that conclusion.

[Dan O'meara]

That's quite a standard to apply under the circumstances.  Of course, "nice looking" is a subjective description.  It could just mean he was dressed neatly.  Not necessarily that he looked like a movie star. Oswald was balding and certainly looked older than 24.  In his 30s is not a bad estimate of his age given that he was seen from the ground through a 6th floor window.  Weight is an estimate.  Overall, pretty close to Oswald and reported in the minutes following the assassination.  At the very least, Brennan confirms that a slender, white male was the person firing shots from the 6th floor window.  That alone debunks many CT theories that involve no shots being fired from that window.  And whose prints are found on the boxes behind that window?  Whose rifle is found on that floor?  Whose shell casing are found by the window?  All the evidence points to a slender white male named LHO.  It's difficult to even understand how there could be much more evidence than exists to support that conclusion.

 All the evidence points to a slender white male named LHO.

 
I didn't realise that Brennan could tell his initials just by looking at him!!

That's quite a standard to apply under the circumstances.

The circumstances are that Brennan was using his eyes to look at someone, then describe that person.
His unbelievably basic description of the man he saw was still way off.
Because you're so blinded by your bias you don't see how ridiculous your point is about Brennan's estimation of the age of the man in the window.
You argue that Oswald looked older than he really was and that's why Brennan got his estimation so wrong, but what you fail to appreciate is that Brennan was comparing the age of the man in the window to Oswald himself!
When he actually saw Oswald, Brennan was struck by how much younger he looked compared to the man in the window.
Next you'll be arguing that Oswald looked almost a decade older in the TSBD building than he did elsewhere.