Prayer Woman

[Larry Trotter]

I dismiss all the solid examples I gave you, as must anyone who believes all the shots came from behind and have found no evidence that those on the steps were any better at seperating facts from what they later believed. Also, I was talking about the mentality of the investigators and not your own. You seem to believe their testimony is persausive and yet for me it proves nothing. I assumed you must ignore some witnesses, if this is true then think of it and tell me how those on the steps were any better.

Did Holland or any of the dozen or so up there with him, tell us that some of these men were still clapping and waving at the limo as it approached them, including one stood within feet of Sam himself? Of course not. Does that then mean it probably didn't happen even if we see fuzzy images where they seem to be doing exactly that?
 
If you need examples nearer to PM  there are many out there from those that believe LHO=PM, including their motivation and inspiration for looking at it so closely.
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Barry, again, this thread is named " "PrayerWoman", and so named as a discussion about who is represented by the PrayerPersonImage.
This thread is not about SamHolland, or about the TripleUnderpass occupants.
The eyewitnesses/occupants of the TSBD Building Elm St entrance landing/stairs would have information about the other occupants, and SamHolland and other TU occupants would not be likely to be able to provide information about occupants of the entrance stairs/landing.
Quite simple to me. And, for what reason for me to "need examples nearer to PM"? Who are the "many out there from those that believe LHO=PM, including their motivation and inspiration for looking at it so closely"? What does that mean?
As often stated, I indicate my conclusions, and you can do the same. Just state your case. However, the actual facts may differ, so I can deal with that. But, you have not provided any said facts.
In any event Barry, I have answered your questions, so I would hope that you do not keep asking the same, but reworded, questions.

But, I do wonder, as I wander, what your reasoning is for believing the"many out there from those that believe LHO=PM",and not agreeing with the many, yes many, that cannot, and do not, believe the LHO is PrayerManTheory?
For the record, I am among the many that conclude the PrayerPersonImage represents a female then employed at the TSBD Bldg, who went to the entrance stairs/landing area to view the JFK Sr motorcade, that included FL JBK, along with TG JBC Jr and FL IBC in the limousine.

[Mark A. Oblazney]

it was a dude taking pictures with a camera, methinx

[Denis Morissette]

If you want to correctly label correctly label one or more ladies, you may want to order photos of the Westbrook Collection at the 6FM. Photos show Karen with several of her colleagues.

[Barry Pollard]

Barry, again, this thread is named " "PrayerWoman", and so named as a discussion about who is represented by the PrayerPersonImage.
This thread is not about SamHolland, or about the TripleUnderpass occupants.
The eyewitnesses/occupants of the TSBD Building Elm St entrance landing/stairs would have information about the other occupants, and SamHolland and other TU occupants would not be likely to be able to provide information about occupants of the entrance stairs/landing.
Quite simple to me. And, for what reason for me to "need examples nearer to PM"? Who are the "many out there from those that believe LHO=PM, including their motivation and inspiration for looking at it so closely"? What does that mean?
As often stated, I indicate my conclusions, and you can do the same. Just state your case. However, the actual facts may differ, so I can deal with that. But, you have not provided any said facts.
In any event Barry, I have answered your questions, so I would hope that you do not keep asking the same, but reworded, questions.

But, I do wonder, as I wander, what your reasoning is for believing the"many out there from those that believe LHO=PM",and not agreeing with the many, yes many, that cannot, and do not, believe the LHO is PrayerManTheory?
For the record, I am among the many that conclude the PrayerPersonImage represents a female then employed at the TSBD Bldg, who went to the entrance stairs/landing area to view the JFK Sr motorcade, that included FL JBK, along with TG JBC Jr and FL IBC in the limousine.

You made it about witnesses here Larry, so I gave you my best example of a false witness in this case and I could have chosen a witness from any case I wanted and still be on topic, if you believe otherwise then please explain why. If I had decent footage of anyone on the steps during or immeadiatly after the shooting, I'm sure I'd have used that instead.

Here's what you haven't answered, why do you put so much faith in what witnesses said? I don't get it. Can you give me even one single example of a witness who is provably correct about anything significant in the plaza? How about some professional research that tells us to trust eyewitnesses? Anything.

Also, another you have yet to answer, since you don't trust "the enhancements" do you think PM actually looks like a woman? How/why?

If PM assumed his position just as the motorcade turned onto Houston, which witness would have noticed him?

I said if you need examples of poor witnesses nearer to PM then just search the web for research on the PM issue, also you wrote earlier that you could find no reason for wanting to put PM on the top step instead of the landing, the inspiration for that lies in the same place, on the web from the PM crowd. Your asking questions in a place where there are no real PM advocates getting involved.

My "belief" is that they are correct to question the trust put in these witnesses and I tend to agree that the "evidence" suggesting it's a woman is extreemly weak, the weakest argument against the whole issue. As for the other side, well I would guess that about 95% of them believe that Oswald has to be still upstairs on the sixth floor, can you figure out what their motivation is Larry and why I tend not to agree with them most of the time(but all the time, where did I say that?) Where do you yourself have Lee btw and can you give me one single fact based reason why it can't be him?

[Larry Trotter]

You made it about witnesses here Larry, so I gave you my best example of a false witness in this case and I could have chosen a witness from any case I wanted and still be on topic, if you believe otherwise then please explain why. If I had decent footage of anyone on the steps during or immeadiatly after the shooting, I'm sure I'd have used that instead.

Here's what you haven't answered, why do you put so much faith in what witnesses said? I don't get it. Can you give me even one single example of a witness who is provably correct about anything significant in the plaza? How about some professional research that tells us to trust eyewitnesses? Anything.

Also, another you have yet to answer, since you don't trust "the enhancements" do you think PM actually looks like a woman? How/why?

If PM assumed his position just as the motorcade turned onto Houston, which witness would have noticed him?

I said if you need examples of poor witnesses nearer to PM then just search the web for research on the PM issue, also you wrote earlier that you could find no reason for wanting to put PM on the top step instead of the landing, the inspiration for that lies in the same place, on the web from the PM crowd. Your asking questions in a place where there are no real PM advocates getting involved.

My "belief" is that they are correct to question the trust put in these witnesses and I tend to agree that the "evidence" suggesting it's a woman is extreemly weak, the weakest argument against the whole issue. As for the other side, well I would guess that about 95% of them believe that Oswald has to be still upstairs on the sixth floor, can you figure out what their motivation is Larry and why I tend not to agree with them most of the time(but all the time, where did I say that?) Where do you yourself have Lee btw and can you give me one single fact based reason why it can't be him?

Quite frankly Barry, I do believe I know what conclusions I have reached, and what I have expressed, as well as any questions I may have asked. In the event that any expressed conclusion, or question, is not understood, I would suggest that you review this thread, read my posts, as well as any posted reply along with said post/reply being responded to. If still lacking clarity, I would suggest a complete, as described, review repeat.

In the event of needed additional clarification regarding my expressed conclusions, I would need a specific quote of said post/reply, along with a location reference. Then, I would need to know and understand any specific disputed conclusion with reasoning. And as well, your "evidence" that disproves my conclusion, along with any "evidence" that provides provable basis for your own.

Provided statements/testimony if needed:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lovelady.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sawyer_j.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/arce.htm

[Larry Trotter]

For clarification, but speaking only for myself, I do not consider anyone to be "he is the only reference point one needs to assert that PM is Sarah".

As previously stated, I am unable to embrace the PrayerPersonImage "facial enhancement" often attributed to ChrisDavidson, but I do interpret what I see of the image, unenhanced, and conclude that there is no reliable evidence indicating the PrayerPersonImage is that of a male.

I do not wish to debate said enhancement, either way. However, my conclusion that the PrayerPersonImage is that of a female, and very likely then TexasSchoolBookDepository Building employee SarahStanton is said female, relies on situational event testimony/statements made by TSBD Bldg Elm St entrance landing and stairs occupants at the time of filming from a moving camera a few seconds after the DealeyPlaza assassination of PresidentKennedy and wounding of GovernorConnally.

EDIT: For the record, an observation, early on by a then researcher/author, regarding the image facial area caused my interest to research said image. And, I place valuable reliance upon assistance from the research of others to develop my conclusion that the PrayerWomanImage most likely represents SarahJuanitaDeanStanton.

[Larry Trotter]

Hey Brian, I recently stumbled upon a one frame per second video of the ZFilm with a clear in-motion view of the FourLadiesImage standing on the sidewalk just to JohnTemplinImage's left.
And, there appears to be a momentary head-turn to their right early own, by the first LadyImage, L to R, and later there appears to be a momentary head-turn to their right by the second LadyImage, L to R. The slight head turns indicate both ladies to appear to have dark hair.

Unfortunately the "enhanced brightness" quite likely brightens a light blue scarf to a near white color.

[Larry Trotter]

I think it important to recognize the likelihood that a possibility exists that LadyImage aka SharonSimmons was mistakenly identified as KarenWestbrook. And, that helped to cause the two LadyImages seen with SharonSimmonsImage to be mistakenly identified as GloriaCalvery and KaranHicks, instead of GloriaHolt and StellaJacob. An easy error, as the images of the seven ladies appear near to each other.

As for the landing/stairs MannequinImage exhibition, it is just that, and has no evidentiary value. It is beyond doubt that the MannequinImages are being "positioned" to illustrate a situational event that no corroborating evidence has been provided as confirmation that it did occur as it is being presented.