Prayer Woman

[Larry Trotter]

IIRC, it was long ago asserted, but never proven, that CarlJonesImage was waving, and/or had an arm raised in Altgens6 Photograph. And, I have to conclude there is still no provable evidence for said assertion. The material pattern of the long sleeve shirt as seen being worn on BillyLoveladyImage, matches the arm and torso. It does not match the material pattern of the long sleeve shirt as seen being worn by CarlJonesImage.

It also continues to be my conclusion that BillyLoveladyImage is near, and likely holding onto, the then center placed handrail, as Altgens6 Photograph was made. However, the primary object being photographed, from the front, was the LincolnLimousine carrying PresidentKennedy with wife Jackie, as well as GovernorConnally with wife Nellie, and the SSA driver and SSA co-driver. And, the TSBD entrance portal is in the background some distance back of/from the limousine.

When considering the portal area distance, camera angle, as well as the fact that it is photographic background, I have to conclude the evidentiary value is reduced, and additional image information, and/or testimony is needed for reliable provable corroboration.

[Patrick Jackson]

Oh dear, just about everything here is wrong! These loose claims are what happens when 'research' is done without recourse to actual images

1. We can't see Lovelady's left arm in Altgens---what you are continuing to mistake as his left arm is in fact the RAISED arm of a spectator out front.


2. Unless you were on the steps yourself at 12.30pm on Nov. 22nd 1963, you can't possibly know the effect of Lovelady's alleged lean on his height----any possible shortening effect caused by a slight leftwards lean might easily be more than cancelled out by his stretching up/standing on tiptoe in order to see what the hell is happening further down Elm. I mean, does this really look to you like a man standing at well under his normal height?


3. As James Hackerott has demonstrated, Shelley is appreciably shorter than Lovelady (5'6" vs. 5'8.5"):

You tell us that Lovelady is on the landing. Yet Altgens shows Lovelady appreciably shorter than 'Shelley', even with 'Shelley' a bit further back on the landing:

Explain, please----------with images!

There are low chances that what you marked in RED is "RAISED arm of a spectator out front". Which spectator exactly do you think?
Carl Edward Jones was in front but he was wearing bright suit, could not be his hand.


Here you see Carl Edward Jones.

[Alan Ford]

There are low chances that what you marked in RED is "RAISED arm of a spectator out front". Which spectator exactly do you think?
Carl Edward Jones was in front but he was wearing bright suit, could not be his hand.


Here you see Carl Edward Jones.

It is NOT Carl Edward Jones's raised arm, it belongs to someone dark complected further down Elm (and well out of shot in the Wiegman doorway frames):



Don't believe something so far away from Lovelady could look so near him? Check out this demonstration of how Altgens' zoom lens creates counter-intuitive perspective effects!

[Patrick Jackson]

It is NOT Carl Edward Jones's raised arm, it belongs to someone dark complected further down Elm (and well out of shot in the Wiegman doorway frames):



Don't believe something so far away from Lovelady could look so near him? Check out this demonstration of how Altgens' zoom lens creates counter-intuitive perspective effects!

I understand your point but you have to narrow the number of persons whose hand it might be. Three black ladies seen in Altgens 6, all were wearing bright dresses and there are low chances this to be hand one of them. Also, limo already passed by them so check the second photo how they are waving almost horizontally towards the limo.
If what you marked in red is really a waving hand this person was standing between three black ladies and Carl Edward Jones, closer to Jones and this person was waving to LBJ?

[Alan Ford]

I understand your point but you have to narrow the number of persons whose hand it might be. Three black ladies seen in Altgens 6, all were wearing bright dresses and there are low chances this to be hand one of them. Also, limo already passed by them so check the second photo how they are waving almost horizontally towards the limo.
If what you marked in red is really a waving hand this person was standing between three black ladies and Carl Edward Jones, closer to Jones and this person was waving to LBJ?

The Towner film gives a good sense of the crowd in the relevant area, Patrick, though we're unlikely to find the actual raised hand due to the fact that Towner is not focused on that area at the time of Altgens.

And yes, waving to LBJ (or someone else in the parade). Some people's attention followed JFK and Jackie after they'd passed, some others' went to whoever was passing next.

[Patrick Jackson]

The Towner film gives a good sense of the crowd in the relevant area, Patrick, though we're unlikely to find the actual raised hand due to the fact that Towner is not focused on that area at the time of Altgens.

And yes, waving to LBJ (or someone else in the parade). Some people's attention followed JFK and Jackie after they'd passed, some others' went to whoever was passing next.

All true but that hand still missing fingers. If that was a hand, we should see fingers or palm even if the person was black due to a strong Sun reflection.

In any case, wishing not to steal the topic, I think you are wrong. What you mark in RED is nothing else than left hand, I think Oswald left hand, others think it is Lovelady but low chances it is any other person hand.

[Michael Walton]

And I'll take this as confirmation that your continued refusal to post images-----or to offer a technical reason why you 'can't'------stems from your fear of having your absurd claims subjected to close scrutiny. 

By the way, Brian, Prayer Person is still not a woman. A sharp eye will detect a male receding hairline and side part of the hair.

Unfortunately, Allen, it's not Oswald neither. It doesn't make sense or goes against any logic that it'd be him up there, roaming around seconds after the car speeds away and in full view of cameras. After the planners had greased the screw for the past 6 months setting him up to be the patsy.

Remember, he's supposed to be up there by then jamming the gun between the boxes and making his great 4-story escape just in time to be found sipping a Coca-Cola (or Dr Pepper).

[Alan Ford]

Unfortunately, Allen, it's not Oswald neither. It doesn't make sense or goes against any logic that it'd be him up there, roaming around seconds after the car speeds away and in full view of cameras. After the planners had greased the screw for the past 6 months setting him up to be the patsy.

Remember, he's supposed to be up there by then jamming the gun between the boxes and making his great 4-story escape just in time to be found sipping a Coca-Cola (or Dr Pepper).

Michael, you've offered this weak argument several times already, and I've addressed it several times already. Why do you keep refusing to engage with my counter-argument?

For the----------what?----------fourth time:

We don't know that LHO was being set up, by those behind the assassination, as a lone nut shooter, or even as a shooter. They may have just wanted to set him up as an accomplice. If so, then the carcano will have taken care of that.

To fail to distinguish between the assassination conspiracy and the post-assassination cover-up is an elementary error.