Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle

[Jerry Organ]

Which rifle? The order form in evidence is for a 36" Carbine. The alleged murder weapon is a 40" Short Rifle.

Klein's were mailing out rifles weighing 5¹/₂ lbs at the time (going by your contention that the ad details were precise)?

The lightest-weight for a Carcano rifle was slightly over 6¹/₃ lbs.

The very next Klein's ad would show a 40" length for the same base rifle (cat. no. and price remained the same).

[Richard Smith]

That's the best you can do?

Martin Weidmann needs these simple things explained to him

Yes indeed.... but it seems you are unable to explain it.

I already have.  It seemingly does not require any explanation but that presumes that you have a functioning brain which apparently is not the case.  Therein lies the problem.  All the explaining in the world can't fix that.

[Martin Weidmann]

I already have.  It seemingly does not require any explanation but that presumes that you have a functioning brain which apparently is not the case.  Therein lies the problem.  All the explaining in the world can't fix that.

Here is the best evidence so far that poor Richard doesn't actually read the posts he is replying to, because here he is replying (if that's what you can call it) to something I said to David von Pein. My question to him is actually in another thread!

What one can take away from David's and Richard's replies to my questions so far is that they both claim it is so extremely easy that anybody can understand yet both seem completely unable to actually provide a simple explanation....

I wonder why...... No wait, I don't wonder why. I know why. The honest answers to those questions scare the sh*t out of them!

So, here are the questions for both again;

For Richard;

Also this may highlight an important distinction.  I believe Frazier was telling the truth to the best of his ability about the bag.  He honestly but erroneously thought that the bag was shorter than it was.  He was wrong but not lying.

Ah.. the classic LN default position.... Frazier and Randle were simply mistaken about the size of the bag....

But what of the fact that Frazier was being polygraphed when he was shown the TSBD bag In it's original state) for the first time. The polygraph didn't register a lie, because we would have heard about if it did. Yet Frazier instantly dismissed the TSBD bag as the one he had seen Oswald carry that same morning. And not only that, but (according to James Anderson's memo to SAC Dallas) he also described Oswald's bag as "definitely a thin, flimsy sack like the one purchased in a dime store"..... and guess what Lt Day believed him!

None of this has anything to do whatsoever with size estimates... so how do you explain that, Richard?

For David;

The C2766 Carcano rifle was positively mailed by Klein's Sporting Goods of Chicago to Lee Harvey Oswald's P.O. Box in Dallas. Waldman Exhibit No. 7 proves that fact.

Please explain in detail how Waldman 7 proves that the rifle was mailed to the P.O. Box?

So Oswald (aka "A. Hidell") definitely ordered that rifle. There is no REASONABLE doubt about that fact.

Even if true, what exactly would be the implication of such a purchase?

[David Von Pein]

Oh, that's why postal inspector Holmes was told by the FBI to go look for a money order in the amount of $21.95 and that the purchase date was March 20, 1963.

Good! Tom Sorensen is now going to pretend that there isn't a perfectly reasonable and rational explanation for the "21.95" and "March 20" discrepancies.

And the March 20th thing is hardly a discrepancy or a mistake in the first place, because Mar. 20 WAS the date of shipment for the rifle by Klein's. That's hardly a reason to conclude there's something suspicious about the rifle order. But apparently it's enough of a reason for some CTers to cry foul.

[Martin Weidmann]

Good! Tom Sorensen is now going to pretend that there isn't a perfectly reasonable and rational explanation for the "21.95" and "March 20" discrepancies.

And the March 20th thing is hardly a discrepancy or a mistake in the first place, because Mar. 20 WAS the date of shipment for the rifle by Klein's. That's hardly a reason to conclude there's something suspicious about the rifle order. But apparently it's enough of a reason for some CTers to cry foul.

Still trying to avoid answering questions I see....

Preaching to the converted and complaining about those nasty CT non believers is easier, I suppose.

[Joe Elliott]

So Oswald (aka "A. Hidell") definitely ordered that rifle. There is no REASONABLE doubt about that fact.

Even if true, what exactly would be the implication of such a purchase?

What would be the implication of Oswald ordering that rifle?  LOL.  You can't be for real.  Let's think real hard.  That rifle along with fired bullet casings from it were found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.  The owner of that rifle worked in the building, had no credible alibi for the time of the shooting, fled the scene within minutes, and lied about owning a rifle.  How about consulting Sherlock Holmes to determine the "implications" if you can't figure it out on your own?

Figuring Out the Implications



To CTers the implications are obvious.



What are the implications of a rifle ordered by Oswald being found in the building he worked in?

Obvious. If the rifle was ordered by Oswald it must have been planted by someone else. Certainly not Oswald. There are any number of suspects who were not seen bringing a long package into the building who are much stronger candidates than Oswald.

Or, if it was done by Oswald, he must have been just following orders. He did not realize the implications of being ordered to bring his rifle or a long package into work on the same day the President was driving by. And the implications of being told to be by himself and out of sight as the President was driven by.





What are the implications of Oswald?s prints on the rifle?

Obvious. The prints were planted on the rifle after Oswald was killed. But why not before the assassination? Oswald never encountered an order he wouldn?t obey.





What are the implications of Oswald?s leaving work immediately, going home briefly and sneaking into a theater with a handgun?

Obvious.

After the assassination, Oswald finally put the pieces together. Ordered to bring his rifle to work. Ordered to stay by himself. Ordered to stay out of sight. The President suddenly murdered by gunshots. Oswald didn?t need anyone to spell it out for him. He was being setup.

Naturally he would panic, immediately flee, go pickup his gun and report to the theater he was instructed to go to. Where he was surprised a second time to learn that this was just to set him up as the murderer of a police officer.





One can observe that with Oswald:

1.   Instructed to make a long bag at work.


2.   Instructed to return to Mrs. Paine?s home.


3.   Instructed to use the bag to sneak his rifle into work, or at least bring the long bag to work.


4.   Instructed to stay by himself while the President was driven by the building.


5.   Instructed to stay out of sight while the President was driven by the building.


6.   Heard about the President being shot to death.


7.   Instructed to report to the Texas Theater by 1:30.


he was not very good at figuring out the implications. One would think he could put the pieces together by Step 5 at the latest.

But was he really a lot worse than the CTers?

It sounds to me that Oswald would have been a great CTer.

[Martin Weidmann]

Figuring Out the Implications



To CTers the implications are obvious.



What are the implications of a rifle ordered by Oswald being found in the building he worked in?

Obvious. If the rifle was ordered by Oswald it must have been planted by someone else. Certainly not Oswald. There are any number of suspects who were not seen bringing a long package into the building who are much stronger candidates than Oswald.

Or, if it was done by Oswald, he must have been just following orders. He did not realize the implications of being ordered to bring his rifle or a long package into work on the same day the President was driving by. And the implications of being told to be by himself and out of sight as the President was driven by.





What are the implications of Oswald?s prints on the rifle?

Obvious. The prints were planted on the rifle after Oswald was killed. But why not before the assassination? Oswald never encountered an order he wouldn?t obey.





What are the implications of Oswald?s leaving work immediately, going home briefly and sneaking into a theater with a handgun?

Obvious.

After the assassination, Oswald finally put the pieces together. Ordered to bring his rifle to work. Ordered to stay by himself. Ordered to stay out of sight. The President suddenly murdered by gunshots. Oswald didn?t need anyone to spell it out for him. He was being setup.

Naturally he would panic, immediately flee, go pickup his gun and report to the theater he was instructed to go to. Where he was surprised a second time to learn that this was just to set him up as the murderer of a police officer.





One can observe that with Oswald:

1.   Instructed to make a long bag at work.


2.   Instructed to return to Mrs. Paine?s home.


3.   Instructed to use the bag to sneak his rifle into work, or at least bring the long bag to work.


4.   Instructed to stay by himself while the President was driven by the building.


5.   Instructed to stay out of sight while the President was driven by the building.


6.   Heard about the President being shot to death.


7.   Instructed to report to the Texas Theater by 1:30.


he was not very good at figuring out the implications. One would think he could put the pieces together by Step 5 at the latest.

But was he really a lot worse than the CTers?

It sounds to me that Oswald would have been a great CTer.

Great. Another LN who is "answering" questions that were not asked and not answering the ones that were asked....

Must be some sort of a conspiracy....

[Walt Cakebread]

Figuring Out the Implications



To CTers the implications are obvious.



What are the implications of a rifle ordered by Oswald being found in the building he worked in?

Obvious. If the rifle was ordered by Oswald it must have been planted by someone else. Certainly not Oswald. There are any number of suspects who were not seen bringing a long package into the building who are much stronger candidates than Oswald.

Or, if it was done by Oswald, he must have been just following orders. He did not realize the implications of being ordered to bring his rifle or a long package into work on the same day the President was driving by. And the implications of being told to be by himself and out of sight as the President was driven by.


What are the implications of Oswald?s prints on the rifle?

Obvious. The prints were planted on the rifle after Oswald was killed. But why not before the assassination? Oswald never encountered an order he wouldn?t obey.





What are the implications of Oswald?s leaving work immediately, going home briefly and sneaking into a theater with a handgun?

Obvious.

After the assassination, Oswald finally put the pieces together. Ordered to bring his rifle to work. Ordered to stay by himself. Ordered to stay out of sight. The President suddenly murdered by gunshots. Oswald didn?t need anyone to spell it out for him. He was being setup.

Naturally he would panic, immediately flee, go pickup his gun and report to the theater he was instructed to go to. Where he was surprised a second time to learn that this was just to set him up as the murderer of a police officer.





One can observe that with Oswald:

1.   Instructed to make a long bag at work.


2.   Instructed to return to Mrs. Paine?s home.


3.   Instructed to use the bag to sneak his rifle into work, or at least bring the long bag to work.


4.   Instructed to stay by himself while the President was driven by the building.


5.   Instructed to stay out of sight while the President was driven by the building.


6.   Heard about the President being shot to death.


7.   Instructed to report to the Texas Theater by 1:30.


he was not very good at figuring out the implications. One would think he could put the pieces together by Step 5 at the latest.

But was he really a lot worse than the CTers?

It sounds to me that Oswald would have been a great CTer.

He did not realize the implications of being ordered to bring his rifle or a long package into work on the same day the President was driving by. And the implications of being told to be by himself and out of sight as the President was driven by.

Ordered by??    Whom??.....  Lee thought that he was pulling another hoax like the Walker hoax.....  Nobody had to tell him that if he made it to Cuba that if a photo surfaced that showed him as a spectator at the time h was supposed to be taking a pot shot at JFK.....That photo would be an invitation to attend Castro's firing squad....as a participant.