Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Martin Weidmann]

You're missing the point.

Bowles' words tell us that the tapes could be off somewhat.  That's not even a guarantee, as you seem to believe it is.  However, the point is... the tapes could be off slightly one direction or the other.  YOU, in order to get your cop-killer off the hook, need them to be off by as much as eight minutes.  That's the point.

No I am not missing the point. There is no mistake about what Bowles said;

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time. Within the dispatcher's office there were numerous other time giving and time recording devices, both in the telephone room and in the radio room. Telephone operators and radio operators were furnished "Simplex" clocks. Because the hands often worked loose,they indicated the incorrect time.

[Note: "Official time" is not "real time"]

However, their purpose was to stamp the time, day and date on incoming calls. While they were reliable at this, they were not synchronized as stated in the Committee report. Therefore, it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. Accordingly, at "exactly" 10:10, various clocks could be stamping from 10:08 to 10:12, for example.

When clocks were as much as a minute or so out of synchronization it was normal procedure to make the needed adjustments. During busy periods this was not readily done.

There is no way to connect "police time" with "real time." The Committee Report stated that the Dallas Police Communications system was recorded by continuously operating recorders. That statement is incorrect. Channel 1 was recorded on a Dictaphone A2TC, Model 5, belt or loop recorder. Channel 2 was recorded on a Gray "Audograph" flat disk recorder. Both were duplex units with one recording and one on standby for when the other unit contained a full recording. Both units were sound activated.

So, a master clock on the telephone room wall reported "official" time (not "real time")
The clocks used by the dispatchers indicated the incorrect time which could differ as much as two minutes either way from the "official" time.
When clocks were out of synchronization they needed adjustments, but during busy periods this was not readily done.
And the recording devices were sound activated, so there can never be a continuous recording to verify the dispatcher's time with "official" time or even "real" time.

There is no way to connect "police time" with "real time." - J.C. Bowles

However, the point is... the tapes could be off slightly one direction or the other.

No. Wrong.... The tapes could not only be off, they were, simply because of the non-continuous recording, and the timeline of Callaway and the others I have just presented and which you (as expected) completely ignored shows that the time stamps on the recording can not be correct

YOU, in order to get your cop-killer off the hook, need them to be off by as much as eight minutes.

That's a pathetic exaggeration. I have no desire to get anybody of the hook but I am not about to take your word for it that he is guilty. So you can throw as many temper tantrums you like. They are meaningless to me.

My time line (you know the one you are not interested in because it is far closer to the truth than yours) has Callaway making his radio call at about 1:13 or 1:14, which means that the time stamps on the recording are at worst roughly 4,5 minutes off. You, on the other hand, have Bowley's watch being off by 7 minutes, the hospital clocks being off by 9 minutes and Markham being mistaken about when she left home by something like 6 minutes.

For your time line to be correct;

* Markham must either have been mistaken about the time she left home to catch her regular bus, or alternatively, a two and a half minute one block walk (as timed by the FBI) must have taken her 10 minutes or so
* Markham said she catched her regular bus, on Jefferson, at 1:15. From 10th to Jefferson it's another 2,5 minutes one block walk, which means that (in your scenario) she must have passed by the corner of 10th and Patton no later than 1:12 or 1:13, yet you have her still standing on the corner of 10th at 1:14 and thus missing her regular bus.
* Bowley' his watch must be wrong by at least five minutes, and he didn't notice it when he picked up his daughter from school
* Callaway (despite what you yourself claimed) must have taken at least 4 minutes or more to run the same block in order to arrive at the scene after Bowley made his radio call
* Croy who was less than 1,5 minute away (at 45 mph) must have taken at least 3 minutes to get van Zang/Colorado to the scene in order to see Callaway there, helping Bowley to put Tippit in the already arrived ambulance
* The clocks at Methodist Hospital must all be wrong and Detective Davenport must also be mistaken when he confirmed Tippit's DOA time at the Hospital as 1:15

In my timeline, everything fits except the time stamps on the DPD radio recordings.

Didn't you have a litmus test to find out exactly how determined one is at finding the truth?

[Martin Weidmann]

We can assume that.

"The fact that he wore the blue/gray jacket (CE 163) to work on Friday morning, which means that the light gray jacket stayed behind at Irving."

This is incorrect. Frazier is clear that Oswald was wearing a light grey jacket to work that morning. We must assume it is the same grey jacket he was wearing when Frazier dropped him off. This makes sense. What doesn't make sense is your assertion that Oswald swapped jackets while he was in Irving.
Instead of acknowledging your error you ask how CE 163 ends up in the domino room. What has that got to do with the jacket Frazier saw Oswald wearing on Friday morning? The answer is - it doesn't have anything to do with it.

As I said, nobody saw Oswald leaving the TSBD. So what if Reid saw him upstairs with no jacket. It doesn't mean anything. I don't see why you would even bring that up.

I never said anything about McWatters identifying Oswald. McWatters testifies that the man he gave the transfer ticket to was wearing a jacket. Oswald had that transfer ticket it on him. It is not a stretch to assume Oswald was that man and that he was wearing a jacket. What else makes sense? That the transfer ticket was planted on him? That the investigating authorities wanted to frame him for an aborted bus ride?
Whaley testifies Oswald was wearing a jacket. Unbelievably you argue this could not have been the case if Oswald left the TSBD without a jacket!! The point is surely that Oswald left the TSBD with a jacket on as the bus driver who gave out the transfer ticket that was discovered in Oswald's possession described the man as wearing a jacket. As did the taxi driver who took Oswald home.
Why do you believe Oswald left the TSBD without a jacket? What do you base that on?

We can assume Oswald was wearing a jacket when he entered the rooming house because Whaley confirms he was wearing a jacket when he got in the taxi. There is no reason to assume Oswald didn't take his jacket from the TSBD when he left. There is no reason to assume he got rid of it between the taxi and his room. We must assume he entered the house wearing a jacket which Roberts mistook for some kind of shirt.
The reason we can have more confidence in Roberts' observation that he left the house wearing a jacket is that she specifically recalls Oswald trying to zip it up:

Mr. BALL. It was a zippered jacket, was it?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; it was a zipper jacket. How come me to remember it, he was zipping it up as he went out the door.
Mr. BALL. He was zipping it up as he went out the door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.

We can even assume why he was trying to zip it up before he left the house - because he had a gun tucked in his trouser belt.

It is speculation based on eye-witness testimony.
McWatters
Whaley
Roberts
Do you have a better fit for the eye-witness testimony.
Remember, there is no reason to assume Oswald left the TSBD without his jacket.
And remember, you are wrong about Oswald wearing the blue/grey jacket to work that morning.

It isn't a fact he wasn't wearing the jacket in the Texas Theater??
Really??
Whatever the case, I'd be interested to know why you assume Oswald left the TSBD without his jacket.

Are you sure you're not a LN?

I'm sorry but I have to conclude that you and your assumptions have gone completely over the deep end. There is no point for me to confront you with facts. You clearly prefer to make up your own story.

This is incorrect. Frazier is clear that Oswald was wearing a light grey jacket to work that morning. We must assume it is the same grey jacket he was wearing when Frazier dropped him off.

Can you please show is where in his testimony is Frazier "clear that Oswald was wearing a light grey jacket to work that morning". You're the first LN who (to my knowledge) has ever claimed that and I can't find it in his testimony.

So, if you please would be so kind. Thanks in advance.

Unbelievably you argue this could not have been the case if Oswald left the TSBD without a jacket!! The point is surely that Oswald left the TSBD with a jacket on as the bus driver who gave out the transfer ticket that was discovered in Oswald's possession described the man as wearing a jacket. As did the taxi driver who took Oswald home.
Why do you believe Oswald left the TSBD without a jacket? What do you base that on?

Aren't you forgetting Bledsoe? You know the lady who said she saw Oswald on the bus and remembered it because he had a hole in a sleeve of his shirt (you know, the same hole the fibers are supposed to have come from that allegedly were found on the rifle). How can Bledsoe see a hole in Oswald's shirt sleeve when he was wearing a jacket?

[Dan O'meara]

Nope. The officer doing the radio broadcasts occasionally has to call out the time. He looks at the clock and calls the time. So a call for 1:15 could either be 1 second after 1:15 or 59 seconds after 1:15. This all throws the timing off. Plus it was never checked if the clock the officer was reading from was correct.

Hi Gerry,
Your argument only makes sense if the broadcasts are noted by the second, which they are not. The point you are making is true for every minute.
However, your point about the dispatchers clock is important. We can know with some certainty that it is accurate as it is independently confirmed by witnesses in Dealey Plaza:

Mr. GREER. After he had said to me, "Get out of here fast." He got the radio and called to the lead car, "Get us to a hospital fast, nearest hospital fast."
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall whether he said anything else at that time?
Mr. GREER. After he had said to me, he said, "12:30," and that is all I remember him saying to me was 12:30, and he had communications with the cars but I don't remember what he had said to them.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he say just "12:30," or was it 12:30 used in a sentence?
Mr. GREER. He said "12:30." He looked at his watch, he said "12:30," and we were in the underpass at the time.


David Powers affidavit:

At that time we were traveling very slowly, no more than 12 miles an hour. In accordance with my custom, I was very much concerned about our timing and at just about that point I looked at my watch and noted that it was almost exactly 12:30 p.m.

I'm sure there are others but you get my drift.

[Martin Weidmann]

Hi Gerry,
Your argument only makes sense if the broadcasts are noted by the second, which they are not. The point you are making is true for every minute.
However, your point about the dispatchers clock is important. We can know with some certainty that it is accurate as it is independently confirmed by witnesses in Dealey Plaza:

Mr. GREER. After he had said to me, "Get out of here fast." He got the radio and called to the lead car, "Get us to a hospital fast, nearest hospital fast."
Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall whether he said anything else at that time?
Mr. GREER. After he had said to me, he said, "12:30," and that is all I remember him saying to me was 12:30, and he had communications with the cars but I don't remember what he had said to them.
Mr. SPECTER. Did he say just "12:30," or was it 12:30 used in a sentence?
Mr. GREER. He said "12:30." He looked at his watch, he said "12:30," and we were in the underpass at the time.


David Powers affidavit:

At that time we were traveling very slowly, no more than 12 miles an hour. In accordance with my custom, I was very much concerned about our timing and at just about that point I looked at my watch and noted that it was almost exactly 12:30 p.m.

I'm sure there are others but you get my drift.

However, your point about the dispatchers clock is important. We can know with some certainty that it is accurate

That's not what the man in charge of the DPD dispatchers said in his statement to the HSCA.

There is no way to connect "police time" with "real time." - J.C. Bowles

[Dan O'meara]

Are you sure you're not a LN?

You and your assumptions have gone completely over the deep end. There is no point for me to confront you with facts. You clearly prefer to make up your own story.

This is incorrect. Frazier is clear that Oswald was wearing a light grey jacket to work that morning. We must assume it is the same grey jacket he was wearing when Frazier dropped him off.

Can you please show is where in his testimony is Frazier "clear that Oswald was wearing a light grey jacket to work that morning". You're the first LN who (to my knowledge) has ever claimed that and I can't find it in his testimony.

So, if you please would be so kind. Thanks in advance.

Unbelievably you argue this could not have been the case if Oswald left the TSBD without a jacket!! The point is surely that Oswald left the TSBD with a jacket on as the bus driver who gave out the transfer ticket that was discovered in Oswald's possession described the man as wearing a jacket. As did the taxi driver who took Oswald home.
Why do you believe Oswald left the TSBD without a jacket? What do you base that on?

Aren't you forgetting Bledsoe? You know the lady who said she saw Oswald on the bus and remembered it because he had a hole in a sleeve of his shirt (you know, the same hole the fibers are supposed to have come from that allegedly were found on the rifle). How can Bledsoe see a hole in Oswald's shirt sleeve when he was wearing a jacket?

Hidden deep inside Frazier's WC testimony where it's almost impossible to find:

Mr. BALL - I have here Commission's 163, a gray blue jacket. Do you recognize this jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald wear this jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe I have.
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe I have because most time I noticed when Lee had it, I say he put off his shirt and just wear a T-shirt the biggest part of the time so really what shirt he wore that day I really didn't see it or didn't pay enough attention to it whether he did have a shirt on.
Mr. BALL - On that day you did notice one article of clothing, that is, he had a jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What color was the jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was a gray, more or less flannel, wool-looking type of jacket that I had seen him wear and that is the type of jacket he had on that morning.
Mr. BALL - Did it have a zipper on it?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it was one of the zipper types.
Mr. BALL - It isn't one of these two zipper jackets we have shown?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
...
Mr. BALL - I have here a paper sack which is Commission's Exhibit 364. That gray jacket you mentioned, did it have any design in it?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Was it light or dark gray?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was light gray.
Mr. BALL - You mentioned it was woolen.
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Long sleeves?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Are you sure you're a JFK researcher because these are the basics.
Your notion Oswald went to work with the grey/blue jacket on is wrong.
Your idea that Oswald left the grey jacket in Irving is wrong.
Your whole idea that Oswald left the TSBD without his jacket is wrong.
You've completely misunderstood some very basic stuff.

[Dan O'meara]

However, your point about the dispatchers clock is important. We can know with some certainty that it is accurate

That's not what the man in charge of the DPD dispatchers said in his statement to the HSCA.

There is no way to connect "police time" with "real time." - J.C. Bowles

So the examples of people recording the assassination at 12:30 PM isn't a way of connecting "police time" with "real time".

Maybe you're right.
But maybe you're totally wrong.

[Bill Brown]

Didn't you have a litmus test to find out exactly how determined one is at finding the truth?

I do.

But...

I now prefer to just sit back and watch Dan O'meara dismantle you piece by piece.

Dan is not a LNer but, like probably everyone else, is growing tired of your troll-like behavior.

[Martin Weidmann]

So the examples of people recording the assassination at 12:30 PM isn't a way of connecting "police time" with "real time".

Maybe you're right.
But maybe you're totally wrong.

Take it up with the man in charge of the DPD dispatchers and convince him that he was wrong because you, a typical LN, knows better