Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Dan O'meara]

No. Show me where I have ever claimed there was a conspiracy in the Kennedy murder. You can't, because it never happened! All there is are narrowminded shallow LNs accusing me of being conspiracy minded, but those are hollow claims.

But after nearly 40 years of experience in all sorts of areas, I have learned that reality is often stranger than fiction.
The one thing that makes me different from a guy like you is that I don't make up stories to defend a narrative.

I just look at the facts and in this particular case the facts are that;

1. Frazier has Oswald wearing the gray jacket (which can only be CE 162) to Irving on Thursday evening
2. Frazier and Randle can not say with any kind of certainty which jacket Oswald was wearing on Friday morning
3. The blue/gray jacket (CE 163) is later found at the TSBD and there is no other explanation for it to be there than that Oswald was wearing it on Friday morning
4. Bledsoe couldn't have seen a hole in Oswald's sleeve on the bus if he was wearing a jacket

This alone creates sufficient reasonable doubt (to a reasonable person) that you can not assume that Roberts saw Oswald leaving wearing a jacket, whilst at the same time advocating the absurd notion that she wasn't paying enough attention to notice only a shirt and not a jacket when Oswald came into to the rooming house.

I know LNs don't like facts but even for LN standards this is absurd.

Yes, let's have a look at the facts for this particular case and examine your case for reasonable doubt.

"1. Frazier has Oswald wearing the gray jacket (which can only be CE 162) to Irving on Thursday evening"

The first point to make is about your assumption the grey jacket Oswald wore to Irving on the Thursday night "can only be CE 162".
This is not a fact. It's an assumption you are making and, as we shall see, it is disputed by Frazier himself.
Other than that, no-one is disputing that Frazier claims Oswald is wearing a grey jacket that night. But you go on to make the assumption that Oswald has another jacket at Irving and he switches jacket. There is no evidential basis for this claim. Oswald keeps his clothes at his room, he needs the few clothes he has for work.

"2. Frazier and Randle can not say with any kind of certainty which jacket Oswald was wearing on Friday morning"

This is not a fact. While it is true Linnie Mae was focussed more on what Oswald was carrying, Frazier is certain the jacket Oswald wore to work was a light grey jacket. He is familiar with the jacket and has seen Oswald wearing it before (read his WC testimony very carefully before you dispute this)
Frazier could hardly be any clearer when he states that neither of the jackets he is shown were worn by Oswald (so, no, it's not CE 162 - that is a fact)
If you view it as a fact that Oswald wore a grey jacket to Irving based on Frazier's testimony, you must also view it as a fact that Oswald wore a light grey jacket to work.

"3. The blue/gray jacket (CE 163) is later found at the TSBD and there is no other explanation for it to be there than that Oswald was wearing it on Friday morning"

That you view this as a fact is a joke.
There's no other possible explanation for that jacket being in the TSBD?
You must be joking.

4. Bledsoe couldn't have seen a hole in Oswald's sleeve on the bus if he was wearing a jacket

This is the only fact in your list. You are quite correct that she could not have seen a hole in Oswald's sleeve if he was wearing a jacket.
That's it.
That's your case for reasonable doubt.
You call yourself reasonable?

Fact - Bledsoe identifies Oswald as the man who got off the bus mid stop.
Fact - McWatters states this man was wearing a jacket.
Fact - Milton Jones also states this man was wearing a jacket.
Fact - Whaley states Oswald was wearing a jacket.
Fact - The light grey jacket Frazier testifies to seeing was never found in the TSBD
Fact - Roberts is certain Oswald was zipping up a jacket as he left.
Fact - Johnson confirms Roberts told police about his "zip up jacket"

Any reasonable person would conclude Oswald was wearing a jacket when he left the TSBD.

[Dan O'meara]

It's a logical conclusion based on the fact that Marina said Oswald had two jackets

Oswald keeps his clothes at his room, he needs the few clothes he has for work.

Pray tell, on what evidence (other than mere assumption) is this statement based?

It's a reasonable assumption that Oswald would keep his clothes where he lived.

Of course it is a fact, because both said in their testimony that they didn't pay much attention. You must have missed that.

Mr. BALL - I have here a paper sack which is Commission's Exhibit 364. That gray jacket you mentioned, did it have any design in it?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Was it light or dark gray?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was light gray.
Mr. BALL - You mentioned it was woolen.
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Long sleeves?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Buttoned sleeves at the wrist, or do you remember?
Mr. FRAZIER - To be frank with you, I didn't notice that much about the jacket, but I had seen him wear that gray woolen jacket before.

If it was the same jacket as he had seen Oswald the night before, why didn't he simply say that?

I told you to read his testimony carefully (and let's not forget, you only became aware of this information today)
When Frazier states "he didn't notice that much about the jacket" he is responding to the question - "Buttoned sleeves at the wrist, or do you remember?"
He's saying he didn't notice whether it had buttoned sleeves. You have mistakenly interpreted this as a general statement but this is refuted by Frazier pointing out, on two occasions, that he had seen Oswald wearing the jacket before.
Even though he was familiar with the jacket he hadn't paid enough attention to it notice if it had buttoned sleeves.
Frazier knows the jacket and he knows Oswald was wearing it that morning.
Your little theory is over. Deal with it.

Stop being a troll and provide another explanation.

You're not very intelligent are you Martin?
This is not a fact - "The blue/gray jacket (CE 163) is later found at the TSBD and there is no other explanation for it to be there than that Oswald was wearing it on Friday morning"
It's laughable that you are presenting it as such. You have no idea what the word "fact" means.
And what do you want me to do, make up an explanation as to why it's there?
Wake up.

So you are not completely lost to reality? Of course it creates a reasonable doubt when a witness says she saw a hole in a shirt sleeve when the person involved was wearing a jacket. Are you throwing Bledsoe under the bus now to salvage your narrative?

Bledsoe is all you've got.
That's it.
You are throwing all the witnesses I've presented under the bus, aren't you Mr Reasonable?

And as far as reasonable goes, do you actually know what the word means?

You have a very strange interpretation of what the word "fact" means.

Your usual, bullspombleprofglidnoctobuns empty statements. Which of the facts I've presented are you disputing? Do you actually know what a fact is?

It's been a pleasure making you look stupid.
We're done here.
Unless you have something remotely intelligent to contribute ( )

[Dan O'meara]

When his wife testified she did his washing? Please, are you for real?
 

I don't really care what you told me or not. You're wrong about just about everything you say and are a proven liar.

Frazier knows the jacket and he knows Oswald was wearing it that morning. Your little theory is over. Deal with it.

Do you want me to put you in touch with him, so he can tell you you're just as wrong as you can be?

Ah another pathetic loser who thinks he is more intelligent than everybody else. It's the definition of a fool.

Give me another plausible explanation for how Oswald's jacket (CE 163) ended up at the TSBD if he wasn't wearing it on Friday morning. You can't, hence the song and dance act.

Bledsoe is all I need to destroy your pathetic theory

I have nothing to contribute you would even remotely be able to understand. The only liar between is is you, Mr "I'm not a LN"

What a loser!

You sound like a petulant child.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you now know what they took?
Mrs. OSWALD. No. I know that I am missing my documents, that I am missing Lee's documents, Lee's wedding ring.
Mr. RANKIN. What about clothing?
Mrs. OSWALD. Robert had some of Lee's clothing. I don't know what was left of Lee's things, but I hope they will return it. No one needs it.

According to your doomed theory, Oswald switched jackets at the Paine house.
That means the grey jacket should be there.
But when a search of the house was done no such jacket was found.
Because it wasn't there.
Because Oswald wore it to work.
Just as Frazier testified.

[Bill Brown]

Fact - Bledsoe identifies Oswald as the man who got off the bus mid stop.
Fact - McWatters states this man was wearing a jacket.
Fact - Milton Jones also states this man was wearing a jacket.
Fact - Whaley states Oswald was wearing a jacket.
Fact - The light grey jacket Frazier testifies to seeing was never found in the TSBD
Fact - Roberts is certain Oswald was zipping up a jacket as he left.
Fact - Johnson confirms Roberts told police about his "zip up jacket"

Any reasonable person would conclude Oswald was wearing a jacket when he left the TSBD.

Interesting series of posts, Dan.  Great work.  A real eye opener, which is rare at this late stage in the case.

I mean it.  Great posts.

[Dan O'meara]

Interesting series of posts, Dan.  Great work.  A real eye opener, which is rare at this late stage in the case.

I mean it.  Great posts.

There's no reason why you and Martin can't do a live debate online tomorrow, Zoom or something along those lines. I'm sure it can then be posted to the group.
I'm new to this aspect of the case and would like to hear differing opinions.

[Duncan MacRae]

For anyone who may have used up their entire collection of personal insults towards fellow members in posts contained on this thread, I recommend this fine scholarly Tome.



On a serious note, all posts containing personal insults when reported or observed will be deleted.

When reported or observed, reoffenders will be suspended or banned from the Forum with their entire history of Forum content contributions deleted along with their Forum account.

Have a nice day 

[Martin Weidmann]

I knew I had seen you mention 3 minutes before

No.  You said that I stated it.  Just look below.

I ask, for the third time (at least)... When did I say that Callaway reached the scene less than three minutes after hearing the shots?

Hi Dale.  I don't recall if I responded to this post or not.  This thread got caught up in a lot of political debate for many pages.

In my opinion (based on eyewitness descriptions), Tippit and Oswald carry on a conversation for less than thirty seconds.  The shooting itself probably took less than five seconds (and is therefore irrelevant when discussing a timeline).

Ted Callaway is at the patrol car reporting the shooting at 1:19 and his description of his actions tells us that he's at that patrol car probably three minutes after the shots rang out.

If Callaway is at the patrol car three minutes after the shots, he must have arrived at the scene in less than 3 minutes as he did not go straight away to the patrol car but checked on Tippit first. In December 202 you actually agree with this.

All ya gotta do is read Callaway's own words.  He did not make his way up to the corner until after the killer had reached the corner of Patton and Jefferson.

Callaway was at the scene sooner than five minutes after the shots; he just did not get on the police radio to report it immediately upon arriving at the scene.

You really should read his testimony a little closer.

Now your lie (that you never said it) is exposed, when can I expect the proof that the Nash couple actually saw the time stamp card for the ambulance at the funeral home?

And when are you going to show me where McWatters said in his testimony that "Oswald got on the bus"?

[Gerry Down]

Callaway backs up Jack Tatums account. They both heard (Tatum actually saw) Oswald fire a few shots first and then a few seconds later fire another shot. This account also matches the Davis girls account where she heard a few shots, sat up in bed in shock and then heard another shot.

All these eyewitnesses back up each other and Jack tatum confirms it was Oswald who fired the shots.