Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Dan O'meara]

It's nice of you to explain what the meaning of all those radio codes are, but please don't expect me to take you word for it.

Here's the link to the codes - https://www.bearcat1.com/radiotx.htm

Even less so as you let yourself be guided by a radio transcript that simply can not be correct.

There is no way to connect "police time" with "real time." - J.C. Bowles (the man in charge of the DPD dispatchers).

This isn't about connecting police time with real time.
You will note in my post I've not referred to any specific times.
It's about the order of events and some approximate times in between these events.

But let's assume for a second that you are correct about the codes. Brown not only claimed that Callaway helped load Tippit into the ambulance (that would be 602) before making his call, but that another ambulance (which would 605) arrived during or just after (I'm paraphrazing) the radio call.

Now, here's the thing. Just after 602 asked for the correct address, 605 called in with code 5 (which according to you means "en route", right"?" The dispatcher replied with a time stamp of 1:19. Only seconds later Callaway made his radio call. But the radio transcript shows that 605 did not call in with code 6 ("arrived") until just before a time stamp of 1:25 by the dispatcher.

So, how can an ambulance that does not arrive until roughly 1:25 be heard in Callaway's radio call at 1:19?

I don't agree with Bill that the sirens that can be heard on Callaway's call are 605 arriving.
I think it makes much more sense that the sirens belong to 602 leaving

And then there is this minor problem. The drive time from 10th street to Methodist Hospital is no more than 2 to 3 minutes depending on traffic. Brown basically claims that Tippit was declared DOA at the hospital at around 1:24. So, if the ambulance left 10th street just prior to a 1:19 time call, are we to believe that, with sirens, they needed 5 minutes to cover a distance that normally takes about 2 to 3 minutes to drive?

I think there is a problem with the times given on the DPD tapes.
I've been checking these out recently and there are some weird things that I've noticed that I can't explain (yet)
So, the time of 1:19 you've given (I assume from the tape transcripts) may not be accurate.

Btw, in my previous two posts I point out all sorts of discrepancies in Brown's story and time line and this is the only one you want to focus on or deal with?

My post wasn't aimed at you and shouldn't be taken personally.
I had read Callaway's WC testimony and was intrigued that Bill, who seems fairly well up on this stuff, could be making such a wild claim as the ambulance arriving before Callaway's call.
I was also interested in trying to resolve the various time discrepancies that seem to exist in this particular aspect of the case and, as such, have been examining the DPD tapes.
Finding that the tapes actually support Bill's assertion was quite a surprise so wanted to post about it to clear it up.

Anyone with the codes and the transcripts of the tapes can see that what I posted is a fair representation of what is there.

[Dan O'meara]

If we examine the DPD tapes and ignore the time calls for a minute the following approximations can be inferred:

Benevides makes his unsuccessful call on Tippit's radio

One minute later Bowley makes his call.

Two minutes after this Callaway makes his call

Now for the really big assumption - let's assume Benevides is in Tippit's car two minutes after the shooting,
This means Callaway makes his call 5 minutes after the shooting.
In this time Callaway has watched Oswald run down Patton and had some kind of brief interaction with him.
He then followed Oswald down Patton (according to Guinyard).
He then has some kind of interaction with B D Searcy.
He then runs back up Patton and over to the squad car.
He briefly examines Tippit.
The ambulance arrives and he helps load Tippit into it.
He then makes his call.

5 minutes seems perfectly reasonable. When he arrives at the squad car Bowley has finished his call, so he could've actually reached the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting.
It mustn't have escaped his attention that there were no police at the scene which probably prompted him into making the call as the ambulance was leaving.

[Martin Weidmann]

Here's the link to the codes - https://www.bearcat1.com/radiotx.htm

I know that website. It's not official and the codes are police codes.
Having said that, on second thought, the information about the codes may well be correct and apply to ambulances as well

This isn't about connecting police time with real time.
You will note in my post I've not referred to any specific times.
It's about the order of events and some approximate times in between these events.

Sorry, but you can not discuss the one without the other. If you use the DPD radio transcripts as guide you have already decided which time line is the one that you want to use.

I don't agree with Bill that the sirens that can be heard on Callaway's call are 605 arriving.
I think it makes much more sense that the sirens belong to 602 leaving

That certainly is a more plausible explanation, but it still does not explain why an ambulance with sirens would require 5 minutes to drive a distance that in normal traffice can be driven in less than 3 minutes. Remember, according to Brown, Tippit was declared DOA at Methodist Hospital at 1:24. Never mind that DPD officer Davenport, who followed the ambulance part of the way and was present at the Hospital said in two different documents that the DOA time was 1:15.

I think there is a problem with the times given on the DPD tapes.
I've been checking these out recently and there are some weird things that I've noticed that I can't explain (yet)
So, the time of 1:19 you've given (I assume from the tape transcripts) may not be accurate.

Of course there is a problem with the times given on the DPD tapes. The man in charge of the DPD dispatcher told the HSCA than in no uncertain terms and the many discrepancies in Bill Brown's theory show as much. The problem is how one discusses this case with somebody (Brown) who on the one hand accepts that it is possible that the time stamps are not 100% accurate (I'm paraphrasing) while on the other hand cling to those time stamps as a foundation for his entire theory?

My post wasn't aimed at you and shouldn't be taken personally.
I had read Callaway's WC testimony and was intrigued that Bill, who seems fairly well up on this stuff, could be making such a wild claim as the ambulance arriving before Callaway's call.
I was also interested in trying to resolve the various time discrepancies that seem to exist in this particular aspect of the case and, as such, have been examining the DPD tapes.
Finding that the tapes actually support Bill's assertion was quite a surprise so wanted to post about it to clear it up.

Don't worry about me taking anything personally. The problem with the WC / LN narrative is that at the surface it looks conclusive and persuasive, but once you examine the details it quickly falls apart.

Anyone with the codes and the transcripts of the tapes can see that what I posted is a fair representation of what is there.

Fair enough, although you only focused on ambulance 602 and disregarded 605. 

[Dan O'meara]

I imagine the following sequence of events (with obvious approximations)

0 minutes - The shooting
0.5 minutes - Markham is with Tippit as he dies
1.5 minutes - Benevides arrives at scene
2 minutes - Benevides tries to make his call. At some point Bowley arrives.
3 - 4 minutes - Bowley makes his call
4 - 5 minutes - Callaway arrives. Then the ambulance arrives
5 minutes - Tippit is loaded into the ambulance and Callaway makes his call

[Bill Brown]

Still no answers from Bill Brown to my questions:

Where in his testimony "McWatters testified that Oswald got on the bus".

I already explained this; so did several other members.

[Dan O'meara]

Sorry, but you can not discuss the one without the other. If you use the DPD radio transcripts as guide you have already decided which time line is the one that you want to use.

This is clearly incorrect.
Ignore the time calls and you're left with a record of events, the order in which they happen and a good estimation of the time between each event. These things are not affected by ignoring the time calls.

That certainly is a more plausible explanation, but it still does not explain why an ambulance with sirens would require 5 minutes to drive a distance that in normal traffice can be driven in less than 3 minutes. Remember, according to Brown, Tippit was declared DOA at Methodist Hospital at 1:24. Never mind that DPD officer Davenport, who followed the ambulance part of the way and was present at the Hospital said in two different documents that the DOA time was 1:15.

I've not really looked into this but if the DPD tapes are out by two minutes it's possible the ambulance left at 1:21 instead of 1:19
A 3 minute drive would have it at the Methodist Hospital at 1:24. Just a suggestion.
As for Davenport reporting Tippit was DOA at the same time Markham was supposed to be catching her bus...something seems off with that. Maybe Davenport got it wrong. Maybe.

Fair enough, although you only focused on ambulance 602 and disregarded 605. 

I'm glad you agree.

605 has got nothing to do with it (that I can see).
Out of interest, why did you bring it up?

[Bill Brown]

Here's the link to the codes - https://www.bearcat1.com/radiotx.htm

This isn't about connecting police time with real time.
You will note in my post I've not referred to any specific times.
It's about the order of events and some approximate times in between these events.

I don't agree with Bill that the sirens that can be heard on Callaway's call are 605 arriving.
I think it makes much more sense that the sirens belong to 602 leaving

I think there is a problem with the times given on the DPD tapes.
I've been checking these out recently and there are some weird things that I've noticed that I can't explain (yet)
So, the time of 1:19 you've given (I assume from the tape transcripts) may not be accurate.

My post wasn't aimed at you and shouldn't be taken personally.
I had read Callaway's WC testimony and was intrigued that Bill, who seems fairly well up on this stuff, could be making such a wild claim as the ambulance arriving before Callaway's call.
I was also interested in trying to resolve the various time discrepancies that seem to exist in this particular aspect of the case and, as such, have been examining the DPD tapes.
Finding that the tapes actually support Bill's assertion was quite a surprise so wanted to post about it to clear it up.

Anyone with the codes and the transcripts of the tapes can see that what I posted is a fair representation of what is there.

I don't agree with Bill that the sirens that can be heard on Callaway's call are 605 arriving.
I think it makes much more sense that the sirens belong to 602 leaving

It could be both, however (for what it's worth) Callaway does testify that an ambulance was arriving as he was making his report to the police dispatcher on the patrol car radio.

I had read Callaway's WC testimony and was intrigued that Bill, who seems fairly well up on this stuff, could be making such a wild claim as the ambulance arriving before Callaway's call.
I was also interested in trying to resolve the various time discrepancies that seem to exist in this particular aspect of the case and, as such, have been examining the DPD tapes.
Finding that the tapes actually support Bill's assertion was quite a surprise so wanted to post about it to clear it up.

[Martin Weidmann]

If we examine the DPD tapes and ignore the time calls for a minute the following approximations can be inferred:

Benevides makes his unsuccessful call on Tippit's radio

One minute later Bowley makes his call.

Two minutes after this Callaway makes his call

Now for the really big assumption - let's assume Benevides is in Tippit's car two minutes after the shooting,
This means Callaway makes his call 5 minutes after the shooting.
In this time Callaway has watched Oswald run down Patton and had some kind of brief interaction with him.
He then followed Oswald down Patton (according to Guinyard).
He then has some kind of interaction with B D Searcy.
He then runs back up Patton and over to the squad car.
He briefly examines Tippit.
The ambulance arrives and he helps load Tippit into it.
He then makes his call.

5 minutes seems perfectly reasonable. When he arrives at the squad car Bowley has finished his call, so he could've actually reached the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting.
It mustn't have escaped his attention that there were no police at the scene which probably prompted him into making the call as the ambulance was leaving.

Benevides makes his unsuccessful call on Tippit's radio

One minute later Bowley makes his call.

Two minutes after this Callaway makes his call


Way too simplistic.

Let's add times to it.

Benavides said that he waited in his truck until the killer had disappeared on Patton. That took 40 seconds
 
So we have:

00:00 Killing of Tippit
00:40 Benavides gets out of his car, checks Tippit and tries to get the radio to work at approximately
01:00 Benavides starts keying the mic and (according to Bill Brown) the actual recording has him doing that one and half to two minutes after which Bowley takes over the mic at (approximately)
02:30 Bowley makes his call and it lasts 46 seconds which means it ends at 03:16

If Callaway made his call two minutes later it would be at 05:16 after the shots.

Now for the really big assumption - let's assume Benevides is in Tippit's car two minutes after the shooting,
This means Callaway makes his call 5 minutes after the shooting.

Benavides was in Tippit's car approx 45 - 50 seconds after the shooting.

In this time Callaway has watched Oswald run down Patton and had some kind of brief interaction with him.
He then followed Oswald down Patton (according to Guinyard).
He then has some kind of interaction with B D Searcy.
He then runs back up Patton and over to the squad car.

The distance of one block (from 10th street to Jefferson) takes 2,5 minutes to walk. Running it takes less than a minute. Even if Callaway waiting until the killer turned the corner to Jefferson, the whole thing wouldn't have taken 5 minutes for Callaway to get to the scene. 3 minutes is a far more reasonable estimate.

He briefly examines Tippit.
The ambulance arrives and he helps load Tippit into it.
He then makes his call.

Neither here nor there without time specification. Bill Brown said earlier that Callaway arrived at the scene at 3 minutes after the shots and I agree with him. Which means that the time line looks like;

00:00 Killing of Tippit
00:40 Benavides gets out of his car, checks Tippit and tries to get the radio to work at approximately
01:00 Benavides starts keying the mic and (according to Bill Brown) the actual recording has him doing that one and half to two minutes after which Bowley takes over the mic at (approximately)
02:30 to 03:00 Bowley makes his call and it lasts 46 seconds which means it ends at 03:16 or 3:46

03:00 Callaway arrives at the scene

5 minutes seems perfectly reasonable.

Except it isn't. The distance he and the killer had to run down and up Patton from and to 10th streets simply do not allow for a 5 minute duration conclusion.


When he arrives at the squad car Bowley has finished his call, so he could've actually reached the scene about 3 minutes after the shooting.

So now you are using the fact that Callaway did not know a call had already been made as "evidence" that it must have taken him longer than 3 minutes to get there? Really?


It mustn't have escaped his attention that there were no police at the scene which probably prompted him into making the call as the ambulance was leaving.

Speculation.

examine the DPD tapes and ignore the time calls

You can not examine the DPD tapes and ignore the time calls, but still use them to create a time line which simply doesn't fit.

Rather than trying to defend a pre-determined conclusion, perhaps you should try to evaluate all the available evidence.