Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[John Iacoletti]

LOL  Yeah, Okay.  Keep telling yourself that.

If all else fails, you can always go check out the police tapes.  They'll tell you that the body was loaded BEFORE Callaway got on the radio and the ambulance was leaving as he was on the radio.

The edited transcripts of the edited recordings don't say anything about a body being loaded into an ambulance or who helped.

[Martin Weidmann]

The edited transcripts of the edited recordings don't say anything about a body being loaded into an ambulance or who helped.

Indeed. Let's have another look at the explanation Brown gave on May 12.

Wow.

All of that yada yada yada and you still don't know what you're talking about.

By the time Callaway testified in 1964, he was slightly off in the order of events, regarding loading the body into the ambulance and reporting the shooting to the police dispatcher.

All you really have to do is study the police tapes.

602 is the Kinsley/Butler ambulance.  As they pulled away from the scene with Tippit's body, they made an attempt to get hold of the police dispatcher to notify the dispatcher that they were en route to Methodist Hospital.

Murray Jackson (the dispatcher) didn't hear their attempt because at the same time, Callaway (after helping load the body into the ambulance) then went over to the patrol car radio, grabbed the mic and reported: "Hello, Hello, Hello.  This police officer's just shot.  I think he's dead."

Callaway was told by the dispatcher that  the police had the information and to remain off the air.

When Callaway (during his testimony) said "By this time, an ambulance was coming", he was correct.  Another ambulance (605) had been dispatched to the scene but the first ambulance (602) had already left for Methodist with the body.

I wouldn't really expect you to know any of this because (besides the sad reality that you're only interested in scoring points) it requires some work and maybe more importantly, an understanding of the big picture after having read EVERYTHING (as opposed to just Callaway's testimony).  But, you haven't read EVERYTHING, only what you feel works for you at the moment.

Get a clue.


http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Dallas%20Police%20Department/Dallas%20Police%20Department%20Records/Volume%2004/Item%2001.pdf

By the time Callaway testified in 1964, he was slightly off in the order of events, regarding loading the body into the ambulance and reporting the shooting to the police dispatcher.

Amazing, isn't it. For Brown to be correct the key witness must have been mistaken during his WC testimony;

Mr. CALLAWAY. I saw a squad car, and by that time there was four or five people that had gathered, a couple of cars had stopped. Then I saw--I went on up to the squad car and saw the police officer lying in the street. I see he had been shot in the head. So the first thing I did, I ran over to the squad car. I didn't know whether anybody reported it or not. So I got on the police radio and called them, and told them a man had been shot, told them the location, I thought the officer was dead. They said we know about it, stay off the air, so I went back.

By this time an ambulance was coming. The officer was laying on his left side, his pistol was underneath him. I kind of rolled him over and took his gun out from under him. The people wonder whether he ever got his pistol out of his holster. He did.


The foolish claim that Callaway was simply mistaken, when he testified, also ignores the fact that according to FBI SA Arthur E. Carter’s FD-302 report, Callaway said exactly the same thing to Carter on 25/2/64.

All you really have to do is study the police tapes.

As John already pointed out, the police tapes/transcripts tell us nothing about when Tippit was loaded in the ambulance.

Your so-called "fact" is nothing more than your mistaken interpretation of what you want to believe you are hearing.

In fact - and you already know this - in the 1964 article “the other witness” by George and Patrica Nash this explanation is given for what you are actually hearing on the police recordings;

“Since the location was just two short blocks away he told one of his own drivers, Clayton Butler, to respond. Butler and Eddie Kinsley ran down the steps, got into the ambulance and took off, siren screaming. Butler radioed his arrival at the scene at 1:18 p.m., within 60 seconds of leaving the funeral home. He remembers that there were at least 10 people standing around the man lying on the ground. It was not until he and his assistant pulled back a blanket covering Tippit that they realized the victim was a policeman.

Butler ran back to his radio to inform headquarters. The radio was busy and he could not cut in. He yelled “Mayday” to no avail, and went back to Tippit. The officer lay on his side, face down with part of his body under the left front fender of the police car. Butler and Kinsley rolled him over and saw the bullet wound through Tippit’s temple. Butler told us, “I thought he was dead then. It’s not my position to say so. We got him into the ambulance and we got going as quick as possible. On the way to the hospital I finally let them know it was a policeman.”

This coincides perfectly with the police transcripts which show us that the ambulance driver (602) tried in vain to make two calls to the DPD dispatcher. The first one just prior to Callaway coming on the air and the second one just after Callaway had called “Hello, hello, hello”

602 (ambulance)   602.       
Dispatcher   85.       
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   85.       
Dispatcher   Suspect running west on Jefferson from the location.       
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   10-4.       
Dispatcher   No physical description.       
Citizen   Hello, hello, hello.       
602 (ambulance)   602.       
Citizen   Pardon, from out here on Tenth Street, 500 block. This officer just shot. I think he's dead. 
Dispatcher   10-4. We have that information. The citizen using the radio: Remain off the radio now.

But what blows your so-called "fact" out of the water is the testimony of DPD officer Croy, who was the first police officer to arrive at the scene.

Croy testified that he watched Tippit being loaded in the ambulance.

Mr. GRIFFIN. What time were you at the scene where Tippit was killed
Mr. CROY. I watched them load him in the ambulance.

As Croy was in uniform, there would have been no reason for Callaway to call the police, as at least one officer was already at the scene.

Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Now, I am just referring to the street you found him on. When you got there, was Tippit's car there?
Mr. CROY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Tippit there?
Mr. CROY. They were loading him in the ambulance.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were other officers on the scene?
Mr. CROY. None that I saw.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do when you got there?
Mr. CROY. Got me a witness.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you get ahold of?
Mr. CROY. It was a woman standing across the street from me. I don't recall her name. She gave me her name at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did she tell you?
Mr. CROY. She told me that she saw Tippit get out of the car, and I don't recall, I think she said he stepped back a couple of foot and shot him and then ran. She was pretty hysterical at that particular time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she tell you where she first saw Oswald?
Mr. CROY. I don't recall whether she did or not. There was, as I recall, there was 2 people who saw it. No; 3. A man in a, taxicab driver. However, she was the main eyewitness, as far as I could make out. She saw the actual shooting.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you talk with her?
Mr. CROY. Oh, a good 5 or 10 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there any other officers there with you when you were talking with her?
Mr. CROY. Yes; and no. I talked to her, and then they talked to her, and then I talked to her, and just after I located a witness, the squad did get there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This conversation all took place near the scene of the Tippit killing?
Mr. CROY. Leaning up against his car.

Croy testifies that, when he arrived, he saw Tippit being loaded into the ambulance and the first thing he did was talk to a witness (most likely Markham) for "5 or 10 minutes" while he was leaning up against Tippit's car.

In other words, there is a uniformed police man standing directly next to Tippit's patrol car at the exact moment that Bill Brown wants you to believe Callaway called the DPD dispatcher from that same car.......

And then Brown tells others to "learn the case". Pathetic and hilarious at the same time!

Oh yeah, before I forget.... Remember the two minute gap in Callaway's time line which I described as a "coffee break" and which you tried (in vain) to explain by claiming that it was during this time that Callaway helped loading Tippit into the ambulance? Ambulance driver, Butler, is on record saying that from his departure at the funeral home to his arrival at the hospital it took less than four minutes....Are you really trying to convince anybody that Callaway would have taken two minutes to load Tippit into the ambulance? If you are, you must be further removed from reality than even I could imagine.

Having said all that, that's it. I have wasted enough time here...... no more.

[Bill Brown]

Indeed. Let's have another look at the explanation Brown gave on May 12.

By the time Callaway testified in 1964, he was slightly off in the order of events, regarding loading the body into the ambulance and reporting the shooting to the police dispatcher.

Amazing, isn't it. For Brown to be correct the key witness must have been mistaken during his WC testimony;

Mr. CALLAWAY. I saw a squad car, and by that time there was four or five people that had gathered, a couple of cars had stopped. Then I saw--I went on up to the squad car and saw the police officer lying in the street. I see he had been shot in the head. So the first thing I did, I ran over to the squad car. I didn't know whether anybody reported it or not. So I got on the police radio and called them, and told them a man had been shot, told them the location, I thought the officer was dead. They said we know about it, stay off the air, so I went back.

By this time an ambulance was coming. The officer was laying on his left side, his pistol was underneath him. I kind of rolled him over and took his gun out from under him. The people wonder whether he ever got his pistol out of his holster. He did.


The foolish claim that Callaway was simply mistaken, when he testified, also ignores the fact that according to FBI SA Arthur E. Carter’s FD-302 report, Callaway said exactly the same thing to Carter on 25/2/64.

All you really have to do is study the police tapes.

As John already pointed out, the police tapes/transcripts tells us nothing about when Tippit was loaded in the ambulance.

Your so-called "fact" is nothing more than your mistaken interpretation of what you want to believe you are hearing.

In fact - and you already know this - in the 1964 article “the other witness” by George and Patrica Nash this explanation is given for what you are actually hearing on the police recordings;

“Since the location was just two short blocks away he told one of his own drivers, Clayton Butler, to respond. Butler and Eddie Kinsley ran down the steps, got into the ambulance and took off, siren screaming. Butler radioed his arrival at the scene at 1:18 p.m., within 60 seconds of leaving the funeral home. He remembers that there were at least 10 people standing around the man lying on the ground. It was not until he and his assistant pulled back a blanket covering Tippit that they realized the victim was a policeman.

Butler ran back to his radio to inform headquarters. The radio was busy and he could not cut in. He yelled “Mayday” to no avail, and went back to Tippit. The officer lay on his side, face down with part of his body under the left front fender of the police car. Butler and Kinsley rolled him over and saw the bullet wound through Tippit’s temple. Butler told us, “I thought he was dead then. It’s not my position to say so. We got him into the ambulance and we got going as quick as possible. On the way to the hospital I finally let them know it was a policeman.”

This coincides perfectly with the police transcripts which show us that the ambulance driver (602) tried in vain to make two calls to the DPD dispatcher. The first one just prior to Callaway coming on the air and the second one just after Callaway had called “Hello, hello, hello”

602 (ambulance)   602.       
Dispatcher   85.       
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   85.       
Dispatcher   Suspect running west on Jefferson from the location.       
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   10-4.       
Dispatcher   No physical description.       
Citizen   Hello, hello, hello.       
602 (ambulance)   602.       
Citizen   Pardon, from out here on Tenth Street, 500 block. This officer just shot. I think he's dead. 
Dispatcher   10-4. We have that information. The citizen using the radio: Remain off the radio now.

But what blows your so-called "fact" out of the water is the testimony of DPD officer Croy, who was the first police officer to arrive at the scene.

Croy testified that he watched Tippit being loaded in the ambulance.

Mr. GRIFFIN. What time were you at the scene where Tippit was killed
Mr. CROY. I watched them load him in the ambulance.

As Croy was in uniform, there would have been no reason for Callaway to call the police, as at least one officer was already at the scene.

Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Now, I am just referring to the street you found him on. When you got there, was Tippit's car there?
Mr. CROY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Tippit there?
Mr. CROY. They were loading him in the ambulance.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were other officers on the scene?
Mr. CROY. None that I saw.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do when you got there?
Mr. CROY. Got me a witness.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you get ahold of?
Mr. CROY. It was a woman standing across the street from me. I don't recall her name. She gave me her name at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did she tell you?
Mr. CROY. She told me that she saw Tippit get out of the car, and I don't recall, I think she said he stepped back a couple of foot and shot him and then ran. She was pretty hysterical at that particular time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she tell you where she first saw Oswald?
Mr. CROY. I don't recall whether she did or not. There was, as I recall, there was 2 people who saw it. No; 3. A man in a, taxicab driver. However, she was the main eyewitness, as far as I could make out. She saw the actual shooting.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you talk with her?
Mr. CROY. Oh, a good 5 or 10 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there any other officers there with you when you were talking with her?
Mr. CROY. Yes; and no. I talked to her, and then they talked to her, and then I talked to her, and just after I located a witness, the squad did get there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This conversation all took place near the scene of the Tippit killing?
Mr. CROY. Leaning up against his car.






In other words, there is a uniformed police man standing directly next to Tippit's patrol car at the exact moment that Bill Browns wants you to believe Callaway called the DPD dispatcher from that same car.......

And then Brown tells others to "learn the case". Pathetic and hilarious at the same time!

Oh yeah, before I forget.... Remember the two minute gap in Callaway's time line which I described as a "coffee break" and which you tried (in vain) to explain by claiming that it was during this time that Callaway helped loading Tippit into the ambulance? Ambulance driver, Butler, is on record saying that from his departure at the funeral home to his arrival at the hospital it took less than four minutes....Are you really trying to convince anybody that Callaway would have taken two minutes to load Tippit into the ambulance? If you are, you must be further removed from reality than even I could imagine.

Having said all that, that's it. I have wasted enough time here...... no more.

All you really have to do is study the police tapes.

As John already pointed out, the police tapes/transcripts tells us nothing about when Tippit was loaded in the ambulance.

Your so-called "fact" is nothing more than your mistaken interpretation of what you want to believe you are hearing.

The police tapes obviously don't mention the body being loaded into the ambulance, but the tapes do tell us when the ambulance was leaving the scene en route to Methodist Hospital.  The tapes tell us that the ambulance was leaving the scene as Callaway was making his report on the squad car radio.

This coincides perfectly with the police transcripts which show us that the ambulance driver (602) tried in vain to make two calls to the DPD dispatcher. The first one just prior to Callaway coming on the air and the second one just after Callaway had called “Hello, hello, hello”

602 (ambulance)   602.       
Dispatcher   85.       
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   85.       
Dispatcher   Suspect running west on Jefferson from the location.       
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)   10-4.       
Dispatcher   No physical description.       
Citizen   Hello, hello, hello.       
602 (ambulance)   602.       
Citizen   Pardon, from out here on Tenth Street, 500 block. This officer just shot. I think he's dead. 
Dispatcher   10-4. We have that information. The citizen using the radio: Remain off the radio now.

No.

That 2nd "602" was Butler attempting to let dispatch know that they were leaving the scene en route to the hospital.  However, he could not get through because as you can plainly see, Callaway is on the squad car radio reporting the incident (as the ambulance is speeding off).

Croy testifies that, when he arrived, he saw Tippit being loaded into the ambulance and the first thing he did was talk to a witness (most likely Markham) for "5 or 10 minutes" while he was leaning up against Tippit's car.

Croy interviewed Markham at the scene.  Yes.  This could have easily taken place once the ambulance left and Callaway had already made his report on the squad car radio.  In fact, the police tapes tell us that this is what happened.

Oh yeah, before I forget.... Remember the two minute gap in Callaway's time line which I described as a "coffee break" and which you tried (in vain) to explain by claiming that it was during this time that Callaway helped loading Tippit into the ambulance? Ambulance driver, Butler, is on record saying that from his departure at the funeral home to his arrival at the hospital it took less than four minutes....Are you really trying to convince anybody that Callaway would have taken two minutes to load Tippit into the ambulance? If you are, you must be further removed from reality than even I could imagine.

Straw man.  Typical.

I've never said (or hinted) that it took Callaway (and others) two minutes to load the body.  That was YOUR mistaken timeline, not my correct one.

[Bill Brown]

The police tapes obviously don't mention the body being loaded into the ambulance, but the tapes do tell us when the ambulance was leaving the scene en route to Methodist Hospital.  The tapes tell us that the ambulance was leaving the scene as Callaway was making his report on the squad car radio.

No they don't tell us anything of the kind. You just made it up and you ignored the statements made by Callaway himself - which prove you wrong - to do.

No.

That 2nd "602" was Butler attempting to let dispatch know that they were leaving the scene en route to the hospital.  However, he could not get through because as you can plainly see, Callaway is on the squad car radio reporting the incident (as the ambulance is speeding off).

And your evidence for this opinion is?.... Where, other than in your imagination, did you get that the 2nd "602" was "Butler attempting to let dispatch know that they were leaving the scene"?

Croy interviewed Markham at the scene.  Yes.  This could have easily taken place once the ambulance left and Callaway had already made his report on the squad car radio.  In fact, the police tapes tell us that this is what happened.

Could have?.... It actually happened, and if you read Croy's testimony it's pretty obvious that he saw Tippit being loaded into the ambulance when he arrived and the first thing he did was to talk to Markham, next to Tippit's patrol car. There is not a chance in hell that Callaway wouldn't have seen Croy, in uniform, standing next to the car from where he is supposed to have made his call. And no, the police tapes do not tell us anything of the kind. It's all your imagination.

Straw man.  Typical.

I've never said (or hinted) that it took Callaway (and others) two minutes to load the body.  That was YOUR mistaken timeline, not my correct one.

There is no straw man, nor is there a mistake in my time line and you know it, because that's the only reason why you have refused to discuss the entire time line.

You're a propagandist, Brown. You throw your own key witnesses under the bus when it fits your narrative. Callaway wasn't mistaken about the sequence of events and Croy wasn't either. If you truly were a reseacher for 1% you would admit that, but you aren't.

The police tapes obviously don't mention the body being loaded into the ambulance, but the tapes do tell us when the ambulance was leaving the scene en route to Methodist Hospital.  The tapes tell us that the ambulance was leaving the scene as Callaway was making his report on the squad car radio.

No they don't tell us anything of the kind. You just made it up and you ignored the statements made by Callaway himself - which prove you wrong - to do.

Either the tapes have been altered (for what reason, pray tell?) or Callaway simply misremembered what he did and when, related to helping load the body into the ambulance and then getting on the squad car radio to report the incident to the police dispatcher.

No.

That 2nd "602" was Butler attempting to let dispatch know that they were leaving the scene en route to the hospital.  However, he could not get through because as you can plainly see, Callaway is on the squad car radio reporting the incident (as the ambulance is speeding off).

And your evidence for this opinion is?.... Where, other than in your imagination, did you get that the 2nd "602" was "Butler attempting to let dispatch know that they were leaving the scene"?

It's all laid out for you if you just go read the transcripts of the police tapes.  It really isn't my problem if you cannot comprehend what you're looking at.

Croy interviewed Markham at the scene.  Yes.  This could have easily taken place once the ambulance left and Callaway had already made his report on the squad car radio.  In fact, the police tapes tell us that this is what happened.

Could have?.... It actually happened, and if you read Croy's testimony it's pretty obvious that he saw Tippit being loaded into the ambulance when he arrived and the first thing he did was to talk to Markham, next to Tippit's patrol car. There is not a chance in hell that Callaway wouldn't have seen Croy, in uniform, standing next to the car from where he is supposed to have made his call.

Apparently, you did not read my comment completely before getting all excited and rushing off to respond.  Slow down.  Deep breaths.

It could very easily be (and most likely is the case, if you listen to the police tapes) that Croy interviewed Markham "next to Tippit's patrol car" once the ambulance left the scene and after Callaway had already made his report on the squad car radio.

It's foolish to believe that Croy is interviewing Markham next to the patrol car while the body is lying in the street and the ambulance personnel is dealing with trying to get the body loaded.  Pure foolishness.

Callaway helps load the body into the ambulance.  He said the ambulance was arriving right as he was getting to the scene.

Callaway reports the shooting on the squad car radio as the ambulance is taking off.  The 2nd "602" is Butler attempting to notify dispatch that they are en route to the hospital but he is blocked out by Callaway, who is currently on the squad car radio reporting the incident.

Croy, once the ambulance is gone, is NOW beginning to interview Markham near/leaning against Tippit's patrol car.

Seriously, use your head.

Again... It's foolish to believe that Croy is interviewing Markham next to the patrol car while the body is lying in the street and the ambulance personnel is dealing with trying to get the body loaded.

You're a propagandist, Brown. You throw your own key witnesses under the bus when it fits your narrative. Callaway wasn't mistaken about the sequence of events and Croy wasn't either. If you truly were a reseacher for 1% you would admit that, but you aren't.

You're a propagandist, Weidmann.  You throw your own key witness under the bus when it fits your narrative.  Callaway wasn't mistaken about his positive identification of Oswald as the man he saw running down Patton with a gun in his hands immediately after hearing the gun shots.  Guinyard wasn't either.  If you truly were a researcher, you'd know I've never claimed to be a researcher.  But I could beat your ass any day in an online debate. 

[Bill Brown]

There was a time when I had some respect for you. Not any more.

Hey, YOU are the one who has the information right in front of him and can't decipher it properly.  I'm not worried about it.  And no offense, but I couldn't care less if you respect me or not or if you ever have.

[Jerry Freeman]

It seems crystal clear that Whaley took Oswald to the designated Beckley/Nash St [or whatever] intersection. Cabbie Whaley identified Oswald's bracelet in testimony. That does not prove that Oswald shot the cop.

It seems to me that Ted Callaway was somehow predisposed to select Oswald.

Mr. CALLAWAY. No. And he said, "We want to be sure, we want to try to wrap him up real tight on killing this officer. We think he is the same one that shot the President. But if we can wrap him up tight on killing this officer, we have got him." So they brought four men in.
I stepped to the back of the room, so I could kind of see him from the same distance which I had seen him before. And when he came out, I knew him.
Mr. BALL. You mean he looked like the same man?
 Mr. BALL. About what distance was he away from you--the closest that he ever was to you?
Mr. CALLAWAY. About 56 feet.
......................................................
Mr. DULLES. Did he say anything?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir; he said something, but I could not understand it.
Mr. DULLES. You could not understand what he said? 

Eager to be the guy that fingered the assassin of JFK was Callaway? From almost 60 feet away...not exactly eye to eye.
With a four man line up and three of them are big cops...what does that leave you? "He said something"...this is supposed to be Oswald who had nothing to say to his housekeeper but responds to a perfect stranger?

Mr. BALL. Did he have the same clothes on in the lineup--did the man have the same clothes?
Mr. CALLAWAY. He had the same trousers and shirt, but he didn't have his jacket on. He had ditched his jacket.

Did Callaway see someone "ditch his jacket"? Or was he told this happened? What else that happened...was he told that happened?

[Walt Cakebread]

It seems crystal clear that Whaley took Oswald to the designated Beckley/Nash St [or whatever] intersection. Cabbie Whaley identified Oswald's bracelet in testimony. That does not prove that Oswald shot the cop.

It seems to me that Ted Callaway was somehow predisposed to select Oswald.Eager to be the guy that fingered the assassin of JFK was Callaway? From almost 60 feet away...not exactly eye to eye.
With a four man line up and three of them are big cops...what does that leave you? "He said something"...this is supposed to be Oswald who had nothing to say to his housekeeper but responds to a perfect stranger?
Did Callaway see someone "ditch his jacket"? Or was he told this happened? What else that happened...was he told that happened?

Whaley DESCRIBED the clothing of his passenger as being BLUE colored Workman's type clothing ( a blue JACKET and Blue trousers) Lee was not wearing a Jacket, and he didn't even own any clothing as described by Wild Bill Whaley.

It's crystal clear that Whaley was a simple minded cabbie who the cops used to their advantage.

[Bill Chapman]

It seems crystal clear that Whaley took Oswald to the designated Beckley/Nash St [or whatever] intersection. Cabbie Whaley identified Oswald's bracelet in testimony. That does not prove that Oswald shot the cop.

It seems to me that Ted Callaway was somehow predisposed to select Oswald.Eager to be the guy that fingered the assassin of JFK was Callaway? From almost 60 feet away...not exactly eye to eye.
With a four man line up and three of them are big cops...what does that leave you? "He said something"...this is supposed to be Oswald who had nothing to say to his housekeeper but responds to a perfect stranger?
Did Callaway see someone "ditch his jacket"? Or was he told this happened? What else that happened...was he told that happened?

From almost 60 feet away
He said 56ft. Stop exaggerating, troll