Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Mike Orr]

Can't help but think that Roscoe White might have been in the other police car and was the person who checked Tippit to make sure he was dead. I think for obvious reasons that Oswald was not to escape from the police that day and it looks like he was supposed to be murdered after Tippit was killed or before he was to make it out of the Texas Theater. It seems that Oswald being alive and in custody was a situation that was not good for those setting up 11/22/63 . A lot of people probably breathed a sigh of relief when Oswald died at the hands of Jack Ruby because it meant that Oswald would not be talking about "anything". Ruby was a thug and whatever he told Dorothy Killgallen , rendered her breathless along with Dorothy's best friend a week after Dorothy passed. It sounds like the DPD was impersonating the autopsy team at Bethesda . Evidence went missing and wounds were being rearranged. Tom Robinson was right when he said " That's what the Drs. did "!!!!!!!! CE 399=Didn't happen !

[John Mytton]

Which brings me to Tatum. He was supposedly driving by Tippit's at the time of the shooting, but no one else remembered a car doing so at the time.

Mr. BELIN - Anything else?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No; I guess that is all I can think of right now.
I think there was another car that was in front of me, a red Ford, I believe. I didn't know the man, but I guess he was about 25 or 30, and he pulled over. I didn't never see him get out of his car, but when he heard the scare, I guess he was about six cars from them, and he pulled over, and I don't know if he came back there or not.



JohnM

[Tim Nickerson]

Mitch, I have no intention of becoming engaged in the debate between you and Robert but I have a question that I hope you can answer:

Do you think Oswald's revolver had some sort of mechanism that would eject all bullets and shell casings simultaneously? That when operated would empty all chambers of the cilinder? Thanks.

Joffrey,  Oswald's revolver did have an ejector-extraction mechanism that could eject all shell casings simultaneously. Cortlandt Cunningham described it in his WC testimony. We can glean from that testimony why Oswald was unable to successfully use that ejector immediately post Tippit shooting.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, if a person using the gun and having it fully loaded with six bullets fired less than six bullets, can he use this ejector-extraction mechanism without losing his unfired bullets as well as the empty cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir--by merely tipping the weapon. The unfired cartridge is heavier, and will fall out of the cylinder into his hand. Then he can extract the cartridge cases and lead in more.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you demonstrate that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. If I may have a cartridge, please.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do you have any fired cartridges in the cylinder?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; I do. Prior to my appearance here today, this morning, I fired five cartridges in this weapon, and they are still in the cylinder.
Mr. EISENBERG. You are now placing an unfired--
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. An unfired cartridge in the sixth chamber of the cylinder. Now, in a normal way, you would hit the cylinder release, push in your hand like this, and tip it up. The unfired cartridge will fall right out into your hand, due to the fact that the chambers of the cylinder are naturally larger than the
cartridge you are loading in there for ease of putting them in. When you fire a cartridge in a revolver, the ease expands as wide as the cylinder. In other words, when the firing pin hits the primer, there is an explosion in the primer, the powder is ignited in the cartridge, and the terrific pressure will expand the cartridge case to tightly fit the chamber.
Mr. EISENBERG. I would like the record to show that when Mr. Cunningham tipped the revolver, the unfired bullet tipped out, but the five expended shells remained in.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been rechambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.
................................................
Mr. EISENBERG. I notice that one of the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 is split on the side, Mr. Cunningham.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is due to the oversized chambers of this revolver. As I previously testified, the weapon was originally chambered for the .38 S&W, which is a wider cartridge than .38 Special. And when a .38 Special is fired in this particular weapon, the case form fits to the shape of each chamber. And in one of those cartridges, the metal just let go. Normally it does not; however this one particular case split slightly.
Representative FORD. Does that have any impact on the rest of the operation?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. As a matter of fact, I test-fired the weapon originally, and I didn't even know it had split until I tried to eject it.

[Matt Grantham]

About Holan and Tatum....

Did Brownlow ever check Holan's bona fides? By that, I mean was he able to determine that she actually lived at that address at the time? Any latter-day witness "find" needs to be treated with a bit of caution, and no one else ever reported either the extra squad car in the driveway, nor the guy walking out to Tippit.

Which brings me to Tatum. He was supposedly driving by Tippit's at the time of the shooting, but no one else remembered a car doing so at the time.

 Yes the driveway between 404 and 410 I cannot really respond whether it was proven she lived at the apartment Here is a better quote on Guinyard


 Mrs. Holan?s account of a second police car is supported by the comments of Sam Guinyard, who told Brownlow in 1970 that he saw a police car in the alley shortly after the police shooting. The man in the driveway was apparently also seen by others: a resident of the neighborhood, who wishes to remain anonymous, told Prof Pulte, in 1990, that he had heard about a man in the driveway who approached Tippit?s car.

Frank Wright, who lived half a block east of the shooting, told reporter Earl Golz that he saw two men involved in the crime. But that was a belated addition to his earlier account of seeing one man drive off in a car. To Golz he mentioned another man fleeing on foot.

...independent researchers George and Patricia Nash ...in 1964... reported Wright telling them that after hearing the shots, he came out of his home at 501 East Tenth and saw Tippit hit the ground and roll over after being shot. Wright said he saw a man standing near Tippit, not holding a gun but wearing a  long coat (contrary to most other witnesses' description of a fleeing man wearing a light jacket), run away and drive off, alone, in a 'grey, little old coupe. It was about a 1950-51, maybe a Plymouth'.


 

[Walt Cakebread]

Matt,

Have you noticed this....

Mr. BELIN - I want to take you back to November 22, 1963. This was the day that President Kennedy was assassinated. How did you find out about the assassination, Mr. Brewer?
Mr. BREWER - We were listening to a transistor radio there in the store, just listening to a regular radio program, and they broke in with the bulletin that the President had been shot. And from then, that is all there was. We listened to all of the events.
Mr. BELIN - Did you hear over the radio that the President had died?
Mr. BREWER - I heard a rumor. They said that----one of the Secret Service men said that the President had died, and said that was just a rumor.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember hearing anything else over the radio concerning anything that happened that afternoon?
Mr. BREWER - Well, they kept reconstructing what had happened and what they had heard, and they talked about it in general. There wasn't too much to talk about. They didn't have all the facts, and just repeated them mostly. And they said a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff.

Surely BELIN missed the "we", so who is "we".

Brewer must have left them behind when following the likely armed suspect cop killer into a dark movie theater...

As I recall Brewer originally said that he was talking with a friend in the shoe store at the time he saw a "suspicious acting man" ( What does a "suspicious acting man" look like???) looking in the window of the store.  Brewer said he stepped outside to watch the "suspicious acting man"and then followed him up to the Texas Theater after he saw the man enter the theater.   Then he went back and locked up his store before going back to the theater.....

The whole story that Brewer spews sounds like a crock..........

[Matt Grantham]

 Armstrong claims that he knows of the Tippit shooting And Tippit's friend in the store is Tommy Rowe, an apparently close associated of Ruby, and whom takes credit for identifying Oswald in the theater Stuff you guys obviously know already, but maybe somebody reading does not

[Richard Smith]

As I recall Brewer originally said that he was talking with a friend in the shoe store at the time he saw a "suspicious acting man" ( What does a "suspicious acting man" look like???) looking in the window of the store.  Brewer said he stepped outside to watch the "suspicious acting man"and then followed him up to the Texas Theater after he saw the man enter the theater.   Then he went back and locked up his store before going back to the theater.....

The whole story that Brewer spews sounds like a crock..........

When police cars are roaring up and down the road with sirens blaring most people will look toward them not duck away and try to hide (i.e. act suspiciously).   Are you suggesting there is something sinister about Brewer - a random shoe salesman that Oswald encountered?  LOL  I guess everyone in Dallas was part of the plot except for old Lee who was just going about his business like Mr. Magoo in complete bliss.  I do wonder how the fantasy conspirators knew in advance which citizens Oswald would encounter that day and convince them to lie or act in a way contrary to his interest.  They must have had Nostradamus-type abilities.

[Mitch Todd]

I'm glad I didn't cause any concern.

I'll take your word for it.

However, in all the excitement, you missed the point which was: Why would Hill (or whoever it was) associate a .38 special with an automatic weapon, even stressing the point using "rather than"?

Exactly what on a .38 special "indicates" they were fired from an automatic?

How about the shells having AUTO stamped on them?

Already discussed half of it. See what happens when you sleep through lectures? If they had 'AUTO" (or "ACP") stamped on them, then he would have said that the gunman had a ".38 automatic" not an "automatic .38." Caliber always comes first, followed by whatever cartridge specifier. If nothing follows the .38, it's generally assumed to be a .38 special, since the great majority of .38 caliber weapons made in the 20th century were .38 specials.*

Anyway, pile up your pillows and feel free to fluff, another lecture ahead:

What Hill said was, "The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic .38, rather than a pistol." There are two things in that sentence telling me that he's talking about .38 special ammo. I've just mentioned the first. The second is his feeling the need to explicitly differentiate the "automatic" from a "pistol." No one said that Tippit's killer used a rifle, shotgun, machine gun, sub-machinegun, etc, which rules out the "automatic" being anything other than a pistol. So what did Hill mean when he used "pistol?" It wasn't "automatic pistol;" otherwise, Hill would effectively be saying "armed with an [automatic pistol], rather than [an automatic pistol]," which is nonsensical. That reduces the possibilities to a revolver, a derringer, a single-shot pistol, and a pepperbox, and the latter three are pretty much no-go for various reasons. We're left with Hill saying "The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic .38, rather than a [revolver]." So why would he have felt the need to specify that the gun was an automatic and not a revolver? Well, if the shells he had were from a cartridge generally associated with revolvers, and he wanted to avoid confusion. And .38 special was easily the most common .38 out there. So much so --and I repeat myself in case folks can't hear over the snoring-- that saying ".38" by itself is synonymous with saying ".38 special"

The question is then, why did Hill think that the gunman was armed with an automatic? Been over this, too, but will rehash it in case you slept through that one. Hill would later say that he thought the killer used an automatic because of the way the shells were spread out. Personally, I think that the witness statement that the perp had a ".32 dark finish automatic," which had already been broadcast over the radio. Since no one other than Tippit had was ever closer to the gun than 20-30 feet, I doubt that Hill would have put much credence in the caliber being ID'd from a distance. So, he's left with a description of a small, dark  finish auto pistol, the .38 shells, and no second gunman or second pistol. Ergo, "automatic .38 [special] rather than a [revolver]"

The next time you are in a fancy restaurant, you will jump up on the table and do the funky chicken

OK, wake up now.