Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Walt Cakebread]

He didn't, because Day didn't do such a lift in the TSBD.  Or probably even that evening in the crime lab.

Really?.... Tom Alyea said that he saw Lt Day place the prints on index cards...So if Alyea didn't witness the event then explain how Alyea knew there was a lift on a 3 X 5 index card?

He didn't, because Day didn't do such a lift in the TSBD.  Or probably even that evening in the crime lab.

On page 108 of First Day Evidence, the author (Savage)  quotes Lt Day....

"Lt Day told us that, after he photographed the trigger-housing prints and had been stopped by Captain Doughty he continued working on the rifle under the order of Captain Fritz. It was at that time that he noticed a print sticking out from the barrel. He said it was obvious that part of the print was under the wooden stock, so he took the stock off and finished dusting the barrel.  He said he could tell it was part of a palm print and so he proceeded with a lift."

Lt Day was lying through his teeth.....He could NOT have "noticed a print sticking out from the barrel."nor could he have  noticed that part of the print was under the wooden stock"

 Because the barrel of a carcano has a rectangular bayonet lug surrounding the barrel and there is no wooden stock that the print could stick out from....   Look at photos of a carcano.....the point at which the barrel emerges from the stock is surrounded by the steel Bayonet lug.   

The bayonet lug covers 2  3/4 inches of the bottom of the barrel.... If there had been a palm print on the bottom of that steel barrel that extended back to the wooden stock.....It could only have been left there by a giant whose palm was about 6 inches across....   

[John Iacoletti]

Really?.... Tom Alyea said that he saw Lt Day place the prints on index cards...So if Alyea didn't witness the event then explain how Alyea knew there was a lift on a 3 X 5 index card?

If Alyea was right, then where are the other cards, Walt?  You're cherry-picking.

On page 108 of First Day Evidence, the author (Savage)  quotes Lt Day....

"Lt Day told us that, after he photographed the trigger-housing prints and had been stopped by Captain Doughty he continued working on the rifle under the order of Captain Fritz. It was at that time that he noticed a print sticking out from the barrel. He said it was obvious that part of the print was under the wooden stock, so he took the stock off and finished dusting the barrel.  He said he could tell it was part of a palm print and so he proceeded with a lift."

Lt Day was lying through his teeth.....

That could very well be true, but how does that demonstrate that Day's alleged magic partial palmprint was lifted in the TSBD and sent to the FBI on 11/22?  Why would Day make up a story like that and then claim that he didn't give it to the FBI?  Why would Vince Drain agree that Day didn't give it to the FBI?  Why would Sebastian Latona agree that he didn't get the card until 11/29?  Your story isn't even internally consistent.  Saying that they are all liars isn't sufficient.  They would have to have a reason to lie about not getting the magic partial palmprint with the other evidence.

[Jack Trojan]

Walt, the conspirators knew that Oswald's prints were not on the rifle, which is why they man-handled all the evidence without gloves. They had decided that a single palm print would be enough to link Oswald to the crime, so someone had to pretend to lift a print from the place Oswald would have gripped the stock. This was all for show and plausible deniability. If Alyea wasn't there, Day wouldn't have bothered.

At any rate, the partial print Day alleged to have lifted from the rifle stock was not Oswald's. Unless Day was oblivious that several index cards were replaced a week later by a single card with Oswald's partial palm print, then he was a conspirator. The bottom line is a conspirator had to go thru the motions of testing for prints at the crime scene in front of a camera to sheep-dip Oswald and link him to the rifle. No different than the BYPs. Apparently, Day was their guy.

Do you believe that Oswald's 1 partial palm print on the single 3 x 5 index card was what Day submitted? Or was it a post-mortem swap-out?

"Paul Groody, the mortician who received Oswald's body after his autopsy, says that in the early morning of Monday, November 25th, "agents" visited his funeral home and asked to be alone with Oswald's body. After they left, he had to remove fingerprint ink from Oswald's fingers and hands."

[Ray Mitcham]

Walt, the conspirators knew that Oswald's prints were not on the rifle, which is why they man-handled all the evidence without gloves. They had decided that a single palm print would be enough to link Oswald to the crime, so someone had to pretend to lift a print from the place Oswald would have gripped the stock. This was all for show and plausible deniability. If Alyea wasn't there, Day wouldn't have bothered.

At any rate, the partial print Day alleged to have lifted from the rifle stock was not Oswald's. Unless Day was oblivious that several index cards were replaced a week later by a single card with Oswald's partial palm print, then he was a conspirator. The bottom line is a conspirator had to go thru the motions of testing for prints at the crime scene in front of a camera to sheep-dip Oswald and link him to the rifle. No different than the BYPs. Apparently, Day was their guy.

Do you believe that Oswald's 1 partial palm print on the single 3 x 5 index card was what Day submitted? Or was it a post-mortem swap-out?

"Paul Groody, the mortician who received Oswald's body after his autopsy, says that in the early morning of Monday, November 25th, "agents" visited his funeral home and asked to be alone with Oswald's body. After they left, he had to remove fingerprint ink from Oswald's fingers and hands."

The question is why would they need to take his fingerprints subsequent to his death? Anybody got  a good reason?

Unless like a lot of witnesses, he mis understood what they were up to.

Waits for Felucca excuses.

[Walt Cakebread]

If Alyea was right, then where are the other cards, Walt?  You're cherry-picking.



That could very well be true, but how does that demonstrate that Day's alleged magic partial palmprint was lifted in the TSBD and sent to the FBI on 11/22?  Why would Day make up a story like that and then claim that he didn't give it to the FBI?  Why would Vince Drain agree that Day didn't give it to the FBI?  Why would Sebastian Latona agree that he didn't get the card until 11/29?  Your story isn't even internally consistent.  Saying that they are all liars isn't sufficient.  They would have to have a reason to lie about not getting the magic partial palmprint with the other evidence.

If Alyea was right, then where are the other cards, Walt?  You're cherry-picking.

John, How the hell would I know what the conspirators ( The authorities) did with the other card(s)?    I assume they destroyed them ( or it)   There may have been only one card but.....Alyea used the plural when he said he watched Day lift Prints   from the rifle....

Why would Day make up a story like that and then claim that he didn't give it to the FBI?  Why would Vince Drain agree that Day didn't give it to the FBI?  Why would Sebastian Latona agree that he didn't get the card until 11/29?

I know it's difficult to believe the Cops involved and the FBI agents all lied about the evidence.....But they did. Some of them were actual conspirators who knew that Lee Oswald had not murdered JFK...Because they were the very ones who suckered him into thinking he was working undercover for the FBI....  The other clean cops and agents went along with their superiors as ordered....  They were lead to believe that Oswald was a Communist agent and nuclear war would be the result of confronting Russia. 

After the BOP and the missile crisis, and JFK's integration policies, many "patriots" thought that JFK was a real threat and should be eliminated......They did NOT think of themselves as criminals....They believed they were saving the nation. ...and if a turncoat commie rat had to be the scapegoat..... who cares....

[Walt Cakebread]

The question is why would they need to take his fingerprints subsequent to his death? Anybody got  a good reason?

Unless like a lot of witnesses, he mis understood what they were up to.

Waits for Felucca excuses.

 why would they need to take his fingerprints subsequent to his death?

I suspect that there was doubt in an intelligence organization, that the man who Ruby murdered was in fact the US Marine and Marguerite's Son......  The CIA, ONI, FBI, and any intelligence organization knew very well that agents are frequently duplicated to create confusion for an enemy.   Someone wanted to be certain that the dead man was in fact their agent, Lee Harvey Oswald

[John Iacoletti]

John, How the hell would I know what the conspirators ( The authorities) did with the other card(s)?    I assume they destroyed them ( or it)   There may have been only one card but.....Alyea used the plural when he said he watched Day lift Prints   from the rifle....

Or Alyea (or Kritzberg) may have just been wrong.

I know it's difficult to believe the Cops involved and the FBI agents all lied about the evidence.....But they did. Some of them were actual conspirators who knew that Lee Oswald had not murdered JFK...Because they were the very ones who suckered him into thinking he was working undercover for the FBI....

But you didn’t answer the question. What possible reason would there be for Day, Drain, and Latona to all lie about sending and receiving the card later and separately from the other evidence?

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, the conspirators knew that Oswald's prints were not on the rifle, which is why they man-handled all the evidence without gloves. They had decided that a single palm print would be enough to link Oswald to the crime, so someone had to pretend to lift a print from the place Oswald would have gripped the stock. This was all for show and plausible deniability. If Alyea wasn't there, Day wouldn't have bothered.

At any rate, the partial print Day alleged to have lifted from the rifle stock was not Oswald's. Unless Day was oblivious that several index cards were replaced a week later by a single card with Oswald's partial palm print, then he was a conspirator. The bottom line is a conspirator had to go thru the motions of testing for prints at the crime scene in front of a camera to sheep-dip Oswald and link him to the rifle. No different than the BYPs. Apparently, Day was their guy.

Do you believe that Oswald's 1 partial palm print on the single 3 x 5 index card was what Day submitted? Or was it a post-mortem swap-out?

"Paul Groody, the mortician who received Oswald's body after his autopsy, says that in the early morning of Monday, November 25th, "agents" visited his funeral home and asked to be alone with Oswald's body. After they left, he had to remove fingerprint ink from Oswald's fingers and hands."

Jack.....In the book First Day Evidence there are five photos of the prints on the side of the trigger guard....Those five photos were made from the negatives of the exposures that Lt Day made.  They became CE 720 & CE 721......I believe the photos show scotch tape over the finger prints...and one of the prints appears to be complete enough to use for identification purposes....and yet the FBI claimed the prints were useless for Identification purposes.  Hmmmm.... Do you suppose that they knew the prints were NOT Lee Oswald's???