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Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 439223 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1656 on: October 25, 2019, 01:42:26 AM »
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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1656 on: October 25, 2019, 01:42:26 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1657 on: October 25, 2019, 01:44:57 AM »
And that clock was accurate?

Care to discuss it with Charles Collins, who seems to be of the opinion that back in 1963 clocks couldn't be relied on to give the exact accurate time?

There you go again with that word "exact." Again, that is exactly why I stated that no one claimed that.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1658 on: October 25, 2019, 02:19:04 AM »
That's exactly the answer I was looking for, you or I can't prove that any clock/watch in 1963 was accurate therefore the CT's heavy reliance on minute/second accuracy for the Tippit murder is a waste of time. Thanks for playing!

JohnM

Typical Mytton hit and run BS...

You can't rely on the clocks of the DPD dispatchers either, which means that the transcripts of the voice actived devices that recorded the radio transmission can not serve as proof for the time Tippit was killed.

As far as the CT reliance on minute/second accuracy that's just more BS.... The combined testimony of Markham and Bowley who both were very much aware of the time as well as the DOA time of Tippit at Methodist Hospital at 1:15 make a compelling case that Tippit must indeed have been killed between 1:06 and 1:10.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1658 on: October 25, 2019, 02:19:04 AM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1659 on: October 25, 2019, 02:25:48 AM »
You seem to be confused. I have no idea what you are supposed to be arguing about.

Hang on, so the term "universally recognized time of 12:30" doesn't really mean the assassination happened at 12:30?

Your question included the word "exactly." That is why I said no one claimed that.

If I remember correctly I joined the discussion after someone stated that the voice time stamps on the DPD recordings were meaningless. I simply began showing what Bowley documented regarding this subject. Once I showed that, the question became whether or not the official time for the Dallas, TX city hall clocks network was synchronized with real world time. I am simply showing that they appear to be within the tolerances that Bowley specified.

If you are still lost, I suggest that you go back and read the previous posts.

I'm not the one who is lost or confused....

I don't confuse Bowley (who said he arrived at 10th/Patton at 1:10, after Tippit was killed) with Bowles, the DPD Communications Supervisor, who told us that the clocks used by the dispatchers and the voice actived recording devices could not be relied on to determine the exact time an event happened.

But don't worry about, the entire topic has been going over your head for some time now.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1660 on: October 25, 2019, 02:36:28 AM »
I'm not the one who is lost or confused....

I don't confuse Bowley (who said he arrived at 10th/Patton at 1:10, after Tippit was killed) with Bowles, the DPD Communications Supervisor, who told us that the clocks used by the dispatchers and the voice actived recording devices could not be relied on to determine the exact time an event happened.

But don't worry about, the entire topic has been going over your head for some time now.

My mistake (corrected). And you insist on continuing to use the word “exact” even though it is not a part of the discussion that the rest of us are having. Why is that point continuing to go over your head?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 11:21:20 AM by Charles Collins »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1660 on: October 25, 2019, 02:36:28 AM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1661 on: October 25, 2019, 02:38:44 AM »
Thomas Atkins was documenting the activities of the President. It was an important aspect of his job to be able to pinpoint the time that these activities occurred. He was on the job at the time of the assassination. Does it seem very likely that he would let his wristwatch be very far off the official time? Can you say the same about T.F. Bowley?

Can you say the same about T.F. Bowley?

Actually, yes I can. Bowley was acutely aware of the time because, just prior to arriving at 10th/Patton he had picked up his daughter from school. When he got to 10th, he was on his way to pick up his wife from work. Do you really think that Bowley would have left his daughter waiting outside the schoolgates without noticing it?

But the mere fact that you need to ask this question tells me all I need to know about just how basic you knowledge of the details of this case truly is.


And the clock atop the TSBD.

And please don't forget Walt's contribution:

 Martin, FWIW.... Merriman Smith a reporter in the press poll car in the motorcade grabbed the microphone and announced the shots fired immediately , that radio break was recorded at 12:30....

Your point being? That the clock atop the TSBD was correct because Merriman Smith made a report?

Well, if you had done a bit of research you would have discovered very quickly that Merriman Smith's radio call was actually on air at 12:34.!

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1662 on: October 25, 2019, 02:45:13 AM »
My mistake. And you insist on continuing to use the word “exact” even though it is not a part of the discussion that the rest of us are having. Why is that point continuing to go over your head?

Yes, indeed your mistake. One that shows just how little you pay attention!

Instead of dealing with a single word, which it seems you don't like, why don't you try to deal with the facts for once?

it is not a part of the discussion that the rest of us are having

Who else is in the discussion, except for you and me? And as I am part of the discussion, the word "exact" is indeed part of the discussion.

So, let's go back to basics;

I have tried this serveral times in the past, but so far no LNr has even tried to come up with a plausible scenario for Markham still being at 10th/Patton at 1:14 or 1:15 when she testified she left home "a little after 1" and the one block walk from her home on 9th street to the corner of 10th street and Patton would have taken her only 2, perhaps 3 minutes. Markham estimated in her testimony that she took the 1.15 bus to work every day. And before you go there, yes I know that according to the bus schedule (which btw nobody has ever been able to show me) there was a bus at 1.12 and one at 1.22. It actually doesn't matter which bus Markham was talking about, because a walk of two blocks to the bus stop would have taken her no more than 6 minutes. So, if she left home "a little after 1" she would have easily been at the bus stop on Jefferson at around 1.15 and thus not at 10th/Patton. In other words, Tippit must have been shot earlier than 1.15, most likely around 1.06, because otherwise Markham could not have witnessed it.

The same thing goes for Bowley. He arrived after Tippit was killed. In his affidavit he said he picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Now, let's also not forget that, after picking up his daughter, Bowley was also going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday and thus had every reason to be on time and be aware of the time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, like he said he did in his affidavit.

Bowley also said in his affidavit that he saw the ambulance arrive and pick up Tippit's body just after his radio call (which he made within a minute or so after arriving on the scene). Hospital records show that Tippit was declared DOA at 1:15 at Methodist Hospital, on North Beckley, about 1,5 miles from the scene of the crime. DPD office Davenport says in his report that, while en route, he saw and followed the ambulance to the hospital where he witnessed Tippit being declared dead at 1:15.

Markham's and Bowley's timelines alone justify, IMO, the conclusion that Tippit was in fact shot before 1:10 pm, which makes it nearly impossible for Oswald to have been there. But perhaps the LNs can provide a plausible scenario for these two timelines to be wrong...? I'll wait and see, but I won't hold my breath.

Care to explain how this evidence relates to the DPD dispatcher's time calls from clocks which could be two minutes ahead or behind official and recorded on voice actived devices? On second thought, perhaps you should just stick to posting gifs. You are far better in doing that than having a normal discussion!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 03:20:55 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1663 on: October 25, 2019, 02:48:12 AM »
Typical Mytton hit and run BS...

You can't rely on the clocks of the DPD dispatchers either, which means that the transcripts of the voice actived devices that recorded the radio transmission can not serve as proof for the time Tippit was killed.

As far as the CT reliance on minute/second accuracy that's just more BS.... The combined testimony of Markham and Bowley who both were very much aware of the time as well as the DOA time of Tippit at Methodist Hospital at 1:15 make a compelling case that Tippit must indeed have been killed between 1:06 and 1:10.

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Typical Mytton hit and run BS...

Man, you're all over the place, you so desperately want to defend Oswald that I easily baited you and you unwittingly gave me the answer I wanted.

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You can't rely on the clocks of the DPD dispatchers either

On a scale of 1 to ten of time accuracy I'd give the DPD dispatchers a 9 because time was integral to the job.
As for screwball Markham you can't have it both ways, so you can forget that.
Bowleys watch was never tested or calibrated.
And as for the DOA time, that's an estimate of the actual time of death not the time the ambulance arrives at the hospital.

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a compelling case that Tippit must indeed have been killed between 1:06 and 1:10.

No, you don't get to pick and choose, advanced statistical analysis says something completely different, the mean time average of the time of Tippit's death was closer to 1:15!

Along with the reasonably accurate DPD times we have these times from witnesses which are closer to 1:30 and when all the times are plotted the median is closer to 1:15.

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light—colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light—colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.

BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Mrs. Virginia Davis, w/m/16 [sic], of 400 E. 10th WH-3-8120 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
"Today November 22, 1963 about 1:30 pm my sister-in-law and myself were lying down in our apartment. My sister-in-law is Jeanette Davis, we live in the same house in different apartments. We heard a shot and then another shot and ran to the side door at Patton Street."

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas.

ROBERT BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was employed as a mechanic at Roger Ballew Texaco Service Station, 600 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. He advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, November 22, 1963, a young white man passed him, BROCK and his wife, and proceeded north past the Texaco Service Station into the parking lot, at which time the individual disappeared.

Mr. DULLES. What time was this, approximately, as far as you can recall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Around 1:20 in the afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Will you please state then what happened, what you saw, what you did, what you heard?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I first seen the police car cruising east.


JohnM



« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 02:58:34 AM by John Mytton »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1663 on: October 25, 2019, 02:48:12 AM »