Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Walt Cakebread]

Correction:  The revolver that magically appeared in Gerald Hill's pocket.

Correction accepted...I assumed that the revolver was the same revolver that appeared at the TT.......  And I think it was, but as I see it , it's no big deal....There is no proof that Lee Oswald had that revolver in the theater.....   We have only the word of the cops who were there and they have proven themselves to be damned liars.

[Martin Weidmann]

Hmm, so that's what Martin Weidmann has been doing, speculating? Somebody ought to tell him this, don't you think?

It's a telling sign when a die hard LN finds himself confronted with information he can not counter with credible arguments. They will try every trick in the book, ranging from outright dismissal to ridicule, from trying to change the subject to muddy the waters and pretending not to understand and so on.

There's just one thing they will never ever do; enter into an open and honest discussion about the information that has been presented.

[John Mytton]

It's a telling sign when a die hard LN finds himself confronted with information he can not counter with credible arguments. They will try every trick in the book, ranging from outright dismissal to ridicule, from trying to change the subject to muddy the waters and pretending not to understand and so on.

There's just one thing they will never ever do; enter into an open and honest discussion about the information that has been presented.

Another feeble attempt to paint the honest and heroic LNers in a bad light, we have a mountain of evidence on our side and you can't even speculate a solution, it's just attack attack attack, with no conclusions. You just have to look at the pathetic way you treat Markham to see the massive contradictions in the way you approach the evidence.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Another feeble attempt to paint the honest and heroic LNers in a bad light, we have a mountain of evidence on our side and you can't even speculate a solution, it's just attack attack attack, with no conclusions. You just have to look at the pathetic way you treat Markham to see the massive contradictions in the way you approach the evidence.

JohnM

Thanks for confirming the point I was making, John 

[Bill Brown]

Because he was pronounced dead at Methodist Hospital by Dr. Richard Liguori.

Who pronounced him dead while he was lying on the ground on 10th street?  Helen Markham, after she had her conversation with him?

You're deflecting.  You were wrong to say that the document claimed that Tippit was pronounced DOA at 1:15.

[John Iacoletti]

You're deflecting.  You were wrong to say that the document claimed that Tippit was pronounced DOA at 1:15.

No I wasn’t. It says “place of death: Methodist Hospital”, so “time of death” refers to being pronounced dead at the hospital.

Besides, the Davenport CSS (which you have conspicuously ignored) unambiguously says “Dr. Richard Liguori pronounced dead @ 1:15 p.m.”

Cue another lame excuse...

[Bill Brown]

No I wasn’t. It says “place of death: Methodist Hospital”, so “time of death” refers to being pronounced dead at the hospital.

Besides, the Davenport CSS (which you have conspicuously ignored) unambiguously says “Dr. Richard Liguori pronounced dead @ 1:15 p.m.”

Cue another lame excuse...

No I wasn’t.

Yes, you were.  It's plain as day for all to see.  No biggie, but you were still wrong.

It says “place of death: Methodist Hospital”, so “time of death” refers to being pronounced dead at the hospital.

That is you putting your spin on it.  The document says nothing about Tippit being pronounced DOA at 1:15.

Besides, the Davenport CSS (which you have conspicuously ignored) unambiguously says “Dr. Richard Liguori pronounced dead @ 1:15 p.m.”

Unrelated to your mistaken claim about what the autopsy permit stated.

[Martin Weidmann]

For anyone keeping score, here's all the Tippit times I could find and what's interesting is the spread of times. Allowing for a 15 minute buffer we see the only time which can satisfy everyone's recollection is 1:15. Can the people who specifically specified about 1:30 be so wrong and why say 1:30 and not about 1:00 PM, logically they must have known it was closer to 1:30, which we know to be true.

Btw The person who had the most reason to be aware of the time is Scoggins who was on his lunch break and if he was anything like me, "the time on your lunch break feels like 10 x the time of actually working" so Scoggins who looked for parking, left the cab, went to buy his lunch, watched the telly "I got me a coke and watched television for a few minutes, I would say 10, 12, 15 minutes" then went back to his cab, would have to be reasonably aware of the time he had left and his 1:20 guess is near perfect. Scoggins wins!

ELBERT AUSTIN, sometime after 1:00 PM

ROGER BALLEW, time?

Mr. BENAVIDES - I imagine it was about 1 o'clock.

BOWLEY I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm.

Mrs. MARY BROCK,  approximately 1:30 PM

ROBERT BROCK, approximately 1:30 PM,

JIMMY EARL BURT  time?

Mr. CALLAWAY. about 1 pm

FRANK CIMINO around 1 p.m.

Barbara Jeanette Davis shortly after 1:00 pm

Mrs. Virginia Davis, about 1:30 pm

Sam Guinyard about 1:00 pm

FRANCIS KINNETH, approximately 1:00 PM

I, L. J. Lewis time?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1.

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM

Mr.REYNOLDS.  time?

HAROLD RUSSELL  time Mr. SCOGGINS. Around 1:20 in the afternoon.

Ironic and interesting at the same time as it shows clearly that Mytton wil go any length to make even the most worthless point rather than dealing with the factual information he doesn't like.

He's giving us some estimates from people saying 1:00 PM or just thereafter and some of people who say 1:30 PM. He doing so in a vain attempt to create confusion, as he is very well aware that the WC narrative estimates the killing of Tippit at around 1:15 PM, which obviously means that even the WC did not take the 1:30 PM estimates even remotely serious. Even less so, as they also conflict with the (according to the transcripts) 1:16 PM radio call the DPD dispatcher made and the elusive (as in never produced) time stamped card of the funeral home allegedly showing the departure of the ambulance at 1:18 PM.

So, even by the standards of the WC and just about all the LNs, including Mytton himself, any time estimate after 1:16 PM for Tippit's shooting must obviously be erroneous, as the Methodist Hospital and Davenport both confirm that at 1:30 PM a bullet was being removed from Tippit's body!

As for the estimates that say 1:00 PM, the same applies. Mytton obviously doesn't take those serious as his WC bible tells him that, according to Earlene Roberts, Oswald was still at the roominghouse on Beckley.

And that really only leaves the two estimates by Markham and Bowley;

Mrs. MARKHAM. I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1.

BOWLEY I looked at my watch and it said 1:10 pm.

which come close to the actual time of the shooting.

So all Johnny is trying to do is muddy the waters without actually presenting anything of value or significance to the discussion.

And finally, a word about Scoggings;

Btw The person who had the most reason to be aware of the time is Scoggins who was on his lunch break and if he was anything like me, "the time on your lunch break feels like 10 x the time of actually working" so Scoggins who looked for parking, left the cab, went to buy his lunch, watched the telly "I got me a coke and watched television for a few minutes, I would say 10, 12, 15 minutes" then went back to his cab, would have to be reasonably aware of the time he had left and his 1:20 guess is near perfect. Scoggins wins!

Scoggins actually wasn't aware of the time. Anybody who reads Scoggins testimony will find that he got his time wrong. In his testimony he said he picked up a gentleman at Love Field at approx 12:35 and he discharged him at 321 North Ewing at 1:00. 

Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I picked up a gentleman at Love Field at approximately 12:35, I would say, and I discharged him at 1 o'clock at 321 North Ewing.

However, that trip is only 9,9 miles and, depending on how one drives, doesn't take anymore than 16 to max. 20 minutes. In other words, he got to North Ewing at 12:55 or even earlier. He then goes on to say that he went to the Gentlemen's Club he believed to be at 125 Patton, which is only a 2 to 3 minutes drive. I know, Johnny doesn't like this kind of deductive reasoning, but for those without a bias, it's obvious that Scoggins really must have arrived at the Club just before 1:00 PM.

Then it gets really dodgy for John, because Scoggins himself can't even say for sure just how long he was at the club before returning to his car. It could have been 5, 10 or 20 minutes.... making his estimate of no value whatsoever....

But then, it's really the only thing Johnny has to hold on, so he goes with Scoggins estimate at 1:20 being "near perfect" when it really isn't. In fact it's actually some five minutes after the WC bible tells him Tippit was shot.

So much for Johnny's "research" and arguments....