The Magic Bullet

[Andrew Mason]

Gary didn't say evidence is false.  He pointed out that different people look at the Z film and interpret what they see differently.  Of course you think your interpretation is the most rational.  Everybody does.

I agree with your comment if you mean that one cannot determine when the shots other than the head shot occurred just by looking at the zfilm.  An opinion as to when the first two shots occurred based only on the zfilm that conflicts with the other evidence is bound to be wrong.  That is why the SBT is wrong.

However, the zfilm can be useful in identifying when the shots occurred if one uses other evidence to bracket the shot times. Then you can use the zfilm to narrow down the frame range for the shots.

For example, it is not possible to tell from the zfilm when the first shot occurred.  But there is a strong convergence on the first shot being after z191. A first shot earlier than that conflicts with a great deal of consistent evidence.  A first shot after z191 conflicts with no evidence.  (By "evidence" I do not include interpretations of what people think they see from the zfilm).  A first shot after z202 conflicts with other evidence, particularly Phil Willis whose z202 photo, he said, was taken an instant after the first shot. Jack Ready said he turned around to look behind him immediately after the first shot.  He removes his right hand from the handhold and begins turning around at z199.

Not surprisingly, a first shot between those brackets, around z195, conflicts with none of the evidence, including the view of the President from the SN on November 22, 1963.  The President is quite visible when he emerges from under the oak tree leaves when he is between the lamppost and the Thornton Freeway sign. He was opposite the sign at z200. This means he was completely clear of the tree at z195, not z210 as the WC found.


So the first shot is bracketed by z191 and z199.   That is not an interpretation of the zfilm. That is what the evidence says.

[Royell Storing]

Willis 04 (ca. Z133)

Willis 05 (Z202)

Jackie turned towards JFK (arrow)

Problem is that Willis pinpoints the first shot to a moment before Mrs. Kennedy turned her head from his side of the street to the opposite side.

    "When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving
     and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling
     and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was
     fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more
     or less faced the other side of the street and leaned forward, which
     caused me to wonder, although I could not see anything positively.
     It did cause me to wonder."

The hand movement is just a cute way of advancing when Ready might have first reacted to hearing the first shot. However his head first begins to turn rightward in the Z160s, within the same second when the Governor and Mrs. Kennedy exhibit rightward head turns. All three said the first shot cause them to turn their heads rightward.


_{Ready lower-left inset}

This is stupid. Kennedy's head wasn't opposite the little sign on the lamppost. According to the Cutler map, JFK was slightly short of being opposite the base of the lamppost at Z190.

It reflects your moonbeam-crazy pet theory.

          Casually rubber stamping the recollections of Willis with regard to what he HEARD is a mistake commonly made with other WW2 Vets that were present inside Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63.  Willis was a WW2 Vet and survived the BOMBING of Pearl Harbor. His Testimony based on anything he HEARD on 11/22/63 would be highly suspect.

[Andrew Mason]

Problem is that Willis pinpoints the first shot to a moment before Mrs. Kennedy turned her head from his side of the street to the opposite side.

    "When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving
     and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling
     and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was
     fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more
     or less faced the other side of the street and leaned forward, which
     caused me to wonder, although I could not see anything positively.
     It did cause me to wonder."

In the photo, Jackie already has her head turned to JFK.  He said that the photo was an instant after the first shot.  When the car passed him she was looking to her left.  I don't see JFK suddenly leaning forward prior to z200.

The hand movement is just a cute way of advancing when Ready might have first reacted to hearing the first shot. However his head first begins to turn rightward in the Z160s, within the same second when the Governor and Mrs. Kennedy exhibit rightward head turns. All three said the first shot cause them to turn their heads rightward.

You are changing their evidence. Ready did not say he just turned to his right. He said he turned to look behind him. In order to do that he first had to remove his right hand from the handhold. He does not do that until z199. That is the evidence.

Besides, Mary Woodward said that she shouted to the President as the car was approaching. They were standing just west of the lamppost. She said they all turned in her direction. She said that was BEFORE the first shot.  That is what you are seeing in your clip in the z170s.  No one is even attempting to turn to look rearward.

This is stupid. Kennedy's head wasn't opposite the little sign on the lamppost.

I am not saying he was.  The arrow is from the curb between the lamppost and the Thornton sign.

According to the Cutler map, JFK was slightly short of being opposite the base of the lamppost at Z190.

That is correct. I have the positions of JFK plotted here. On a map of Dealey Plaza a line from Zapruder to JFK when he was opposite a point midway between the lamppost and the Thornton Freeway sign extends to the rounded end of the north reflecting pool. If you watch JFK in the zfilm this alignment occurs in frame z195.  So this photo, showing JFK clear when he is past the lamppost about halfway to the Thornton sign was his position at z195.  So the WC was wrong when it said he was not visible until z210.

[Bill Chapman]

One fact is that as soon as Kennedy appears from behind the sign in Zapruder, his hands are seen as jerking up from about chest level. He's just been hit, before coming into view.

[Mike Orr]

Oswald was at the low end of the spectrum when it came to his ability to be proficient with a firearm and that comes from the fact that Oswald did what he did with a rifle in the Marine Corps with his low scores on the firing range. Had Oswald not have been in the Marine Corps or any other branch of the service then we might not have known what his capabilities were with a weapon. When you add a weapon that is not very good and a person who was not known for his shooting prowess then it makes it very doubtful that Oswald could have pulled off this shooting. Since the back wound was shallow and was thought to not have transversed the body until the throat wound became an exit wound , then the Magic Bullet appeared.

Go to  www.jfk-info.com/fragment.htm       Governor Connally's wrist wound and CE 399

[Andrew Mason]

One fact is that as soon as Kennedy appears from behind the sign in Zapruder, his hands are seen as jerking up from about chest level. He's just been hit, before coming into view.

Ok. The question is: how long before? He would likely start a visible reaction when he discovered he could not breathe properly. But until that point he may have simply felt something odd in his throat. So how long would it take for him to realize he could not breathe? If he took a normal 15 breaths per minute and he was hit midway between breaths it could take 2 seconds before he started gasping for air.

[Andrew Mason]

You're not getting it -- because you're so tied into your wacko pet theory. Willis said the first shot occurred while Jackie had her head turned towards his side of the street. That predates your "need" for a first shot at about Z200.

We both agree that Willis said two different things that are inconsistent. He said that Jackie turned her head suddenly from looking left to looking right at the moment of the first shot AND he said that the first shot was so close in time to the exposure of his z202 photo that the loud sound caused him to press the shutter.  Those are conflicting statements because Jackie does not suddenly turn from looking left to looking right just before z202.

I was trying to resolve that conflict with the rest of the evidence. The rest of the evidence puts the first shot after z191 so his perception that Jackie turned her head in response to the first shot is false.  I suggested that it may have been his impression because when the car passed him, Jackie was looking left and in the photo she is looking right. 

You, on the other hand, want to take this reference to Jackie turning to argue that the rest of the evidence is false, including his recollection that the sound of the first shot caused him to reflexively press the shutter.

JFK has to "suddenly lean forward" for some reason?

Willis said that the shot caused him to lean forward. He is leaning forward in his photo (z202) but he is not leaning forward at z193. That is pretty sudden.

BTW, I don't see where the Governor's chest suddenly faces the side of the car to the extend you contend.u

His chest appears to be turned about 60 degrees to the right in z193.

Even if Ready decided to respond (super-human fashion) to a ca.Z200 first shot by moving his hand within one-eighth of a second of the event, he's still doesn't begin to turn rearward between Z199 and Z207, the last frame before a splice. All he does between Z199 and Z207 is lower his right hand. His head and torso have a minimal turn.

Unforturnately we do not see Ready after z207. But between z198 and z207 he goes from having his right hand on the hand hold to having it down by his left thigh and his torso has turned from a forward position to about 30 degrees to the right and his head has turned as well. That is 1/2 a second. That is where he begins to turn around to look rearward, as we see him looking in z255.

Ready moved his head to a greater extend between Z165 and Z169 than he does just after Z200.

Possibly. The point is that he keeps his right hand on the handhold so he is not preparing to turn rearward. He can't turn his head rearward without turning his shoulders and to do that he has to release the right hand from the handhold.  The fact that he keeps his hand on the handhold up to z199 means that his z165-9 head turn is not a turn to look rearward. It is a turn to look forward and to the right.

Sure. Like they could have heard her.
.... I think she was romanticizing a bit. The Kennedys were paying her exclusive attention. Really?

Have you read the article she wrote for the Dallas Morning News a few hours after the assassination?  That is what she said. She said they acknowledged their cheers. Why do you think the Kennedy's would not have heard them? You weren't there. She was.  Not a single witness has said that the sound of the motorcade prevented them from hearing people speak. Nellie had just spoken to JFK as they rounded the turn and he responded and both heard each other. Woodward said she shouted and they turned toward her and waved and smiled at them.

More crap. You're comparing an overhead position on a 2D map to a still from the reenactment film, and not allowing for the subject's re-positioning due to the reenactment film's 3D oblique angle.

Please explain. I speak English not pseudo-techie.  I say that JFK was midway between the lamppost and the Thornton sign at z195. Where do you say that JFK was positioned at z195?

Kennedy appears to be visible to some degree prior to Z210 but would it be enough for the gunman to acquire the target and track it? Meaning he took a shot with less than a second to frame the target rather than delaying the shot a reasonable amount to improve the odds.

Watch the Secret Service film from about 10:24 and you can see that JFK is visible from Oswald's position throughout the entire time he passes beneath the tree branches. No problem tracking at all:

Mason's wacko rationale to get the neck shot to occur at ca.Z200.

Kennedy doesn't react for two seconds. Similar to Connally -- who Mason says received Kennedy's neck bullet to his thigh -- being unaware of being struck in the leg at ca.Z200. Per Mason, Connally is not shot in the torso and arm until about Z270; he explains away the Governor's reactions in the Z220s and Z230s as "panic" and concern for the President.

Kennedy doesn't react for two seconds?  He is obviously reacting before he appears from behind the Stemmons sign. The HSCA concluded he was beginning a reaction BEFORE he disappeared behind the sign. I can't tell for sure. You seem to be able to see that he is not reacting when he is behind the sign.

[Andrew Mason]

Re:  Jackie does not suddenly turn from looking left to looking right just before z202.

Wow. You're so wedded to your pet theory dogma that you would deny the only place where, in Willis' words":
    "Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling and
    facing more to my side of the street."

.....The "rest of the evidence" meaning your subjective interpretation of what the witnesses said to conform it to your theory's "need" for a ca.Z200 first shot.

Wrong. I'm using non-subjective indications, and near-to-the-event and verifiable eyewitness observation to counter your subjective interpretation to satisfy a wacko pet theory.

Now that's what he was wrong about. Willis had a slide set he was marketing. How many white lies and exaggerated product claims has Donald T|rump made on his way to becoming rich and reaching the White House?

No. I am not providing subjective impressions of the evidence. I am presenting it, just as it was given, so anyone can see that it is inconsistent with a first shot before z191.  You want to twist that evidence to say that it was all mistaken. 

For example:

• Betzner said he took his z186 photo before the first shot.
• Croft said he took his z161 photo long enough before the first shot that he had time to roll his film and snap another (that did not turn out) before the first shot.
• Hughes said he stopped filming before the first shot. He continues to film to about z187. 
  
• Occupants of the VP car said they had just completed the turn and were going downhill on Elm when the first shot occurred. It is still turning at z191.
  
• Occupants of the VP security car said they were parallel to the TSBD/still in the turn when the first shot sounded. The car is still pointing somewhat toward the TSBD in z191.
  
• Mrs. Cabell, in the car immediately behind the VP security car was seated behind the driver of the car. She said the car was in its turn and she was turned to her right toward her husband seated in the front passenger seat when the first shot rang out. At that point she was facing the TSBD and just looked straight up and saw the gun.  Her car has not quite reached the intersection by z190.
  

You, on the other hand, want to take Willis' statement that is not only inconsistent with this evidence, but is inconsistent with his recollection that the shot was an instant before he exposed his z202 photo.  You allege that what these witnesses said was not what they meant by applying your subjective assessment of their evidence.  And to deal with Willis, you suggest that he was lying in order to sell pictures!

I will leave it to others to assess who is promoting a wacky theory.

There is no change in Kennedy's body posture between Z193 and Z202. There is glare on his shirt front in Z202 that might be making you think you see some sort of posture change.

You may be right.  But I see no discernible lean forward prior from z150 to z193.  He does raise his right hand to wave, however. It would be odd for someone describing his action during this period as leaning forward but not turning right and raising his right hand to wave.

One would expect that if Ready's torso really turned 30? between Z200 and Z207, there would a more significant change in his tie and handkerchief position. The right side "expands" because his right arm fills the area.

His right hand is at waist level in Z207. If his head has turned, it's very slightly. He seems to be holding his head up more between Z200 and Z207.

But you can't say if Ready continued to delay turning rearward after Z207. Only that he achieves his goal by Z255.

That is quite right. We cannot see him in the zfilm after z207.  But his right hand moved from holding the handhold in z198 to down by his right side in 8 frames (less than half a second). The next time we see him is in z255 (Altgens). 

You surely will admit that he cannot be turned around as he was by z255 with his right hand on the right handhold.  So he could not have begun a reaction before z199.

The question then is whether he delayed beginning his turn after the first shot by 3 seconds, as you are suggesting.  To conclude that he did, you must reject his evidence (CE1024 18 H 749):

I heard what appeared to be fire-crackers going off from my position. I immediately turned to my right rear trying to locate the source but was not able to determine the exact location.

I, on the other hand, see no reason to reject his evidence because it fits with the rest of the witnesses that the first shot was after z191 and before z202.

First give him a moment to decide to turn rearward. A good agent would check to see if the President was alright before deciding to remove his attention away from the man he was assigned to protect.

Your opinion of what you think a good agent would do is not evidence of what this agent did. Ready did not say he checked to see if the President was ok.  He said he thought he heard firecrackers and that he immediately turned to his right rear to locate the source of the sound.  It may be that he did not think a firecracker would be a danger to the President.

Or... he's briefly checking on the President and the crowd nearest the President before committing to a full turn and not paying attention to what's ahead. Also Ready arguably said he didn't look behind until after he heard more than one shot:

    "I heard what appeared to be fire crackers going off from my position.
     I immediately turned to my right rear trying to locate the source but
     was not able to determine the exact location."

Ok.  It may not be completely clear from his evidence that he turned immediately after the first shot.  But it would be odd to say that he immediately acted if he waited 3 seconds after the first firecracker sound.  This is particularly odd since Altgens (as well as another 40+ shot pattern witnesses) said that when his z255 photo was taken there had been only one shot (7 H 520):

Mr. LIEBELER. You are quite sure in your mind, however, that there were no shots, a noise that sounded like shots, prior to the time at which you took the picture that has been marked Commission Exhibit No. 203; is that correct?
Mr. ALTGENS. No, sir ; I did not-you see-all of these shots sounded the same. If you heard one you would recognize the other shots and these were all the same. It was a pop that I don?t believe I could identify it any other way than as a firecracker and this particular picture was made at the time the first firecracker noise was heard by me.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you don?t think that there could have been any other shots fired prior to that time that you wouldn?t have heard, you were standing right there and you would have heard them, would you not?
Mr. ALTGENS. I?m sure I would have-yes, sir.

So where in the Zapruder film does Mrs. Kennedy turn towards Woodward and acknowledge her cheers?

She is turned left up to z168 and she begins to turn to her right.  She continues turning and faces forward by z178 and by she is turned to her far right by z190, and appears to be looking in the same direction as  Gov. Connally and JFK, which, oddly enough, appears to be in the direction of Mary Woodward and her cheering friends.

How does Woodward know that her cheers were heard over the crowd by the Kennedys?

I suppose the way anyone would know when you shout at someone and they immediately turn in your direction look at you and smile and wave.  Why do you think she would not be able to tell they were acknowledging her and her friends?

You've got the area between the Thornton sign and the lamppost all wrong. A map is 2D while a photo is typically oblique.

So, what point on the north side of Elm do you put JFK opposite in the frame I provided? How far ahead of the lamp post is he and how far in front of the Thornton sign is he?

Maybe the gunman did have extremely low-contrast vision, like the film.

The film has good contrast. It is movie film. The point is that one can see Kennedy the entire time through the thin foliage of the oak tree. Oswald also had a scope.  Even I could track him through the scope.  Why do you think it would be difficult to track JFK as he passed under those outer leaves?

Interesting how you ferret out things to support your theory. It's as if the mechanics of your screwball theory pre-determine what you mine from research.

Yeah. It is really interesting how all the evidence says that the first shot did not miss, was after z191, and the second shot was close to the third.  I just "ferret" it out and present it. No need to editorialize and tweak it the way you are doing.

Hmmm. How is the President "reacting" in Z225?

His hands appear to redirect in Z226, Z227 is too blurred, and in Z228 he's exhibiting a pronounced slump. But in Z225 he's not exhibiting a reaction that I can see.

They thought Kennedy had turned towards his wife as he went behind the sign. But clearer frames later showed Kennedy's right fingers (that are between him and Zapruder) are making his head seem in profile when it wasn't.

Sounds like a CT demanding "proof" through time-travel. True colors?

I am disappointed with you, Jerry.  You are using the Trump approach: "If I don't agree with the evidence, I try an ad hominem approach to attack those gathering and presenting the evidence". 

You have read my posts and you know I have ALWAYS maintained that Oswald fired all the shots and I have never, ever, supported, suggested or given any credence whatsoever to a conspiracy theory. 

My point about the SBT being in utter conflict with the rest of the evidence is that if one actually examines the evidence it does NOT support a conclusion that there was more than one shooter.  The shot spacing recalled by the vast majority of witnesses is consistent with Oswald firing the last two shots as the car was beginning to get out of range, the last coming 2.3 seconds after the second.